Saudi Arabia is torturing a U.S. citizen. When will Trump act?

[Speedwell]

The US is self sufficient in energy. North America is self-sufficient in energy.
Repeat 10 times, and then 10 more.
=======
The US needed to protect Kuwaiti oil interests. After all, Saddam Hussain threatened Saudi Arabia and the West's access to oil.

I submit that the US no longer has to bow to the sheiks. The Europeans also have other choices, including greater use of nuclear (France's choice) or more trade with Russia (Germany's choice). Also, all the EU will trade more with Iran.

The US does NOT have to choose to support the sheiks. How long should we continue to prop up the oppressive countries that we created?

As long as the President and his son-in-law owe them bunches of money?

 

[TLK Valentine]

The Crown Prince denies any knowledge of anything. We must accept this because he wouldn’t lie and is a really good guy.

Imagine what would have happened if Donald's predecessor hadn't killed Bin Laden... our entire theory of 9/11 would have been scrapped by now...

 

[mark46]

Absolutely. Jared's relationships to the Saudis, to Qatar and to the emirates will be investigated by Congress.

However, Saudi Arabia has been the darling of US presidents since the we struck oil there.

As long as the President and his son-in-law owe them bunches of money?

 

[mark46]

certainly for trump's supporters, who now believe that Russia was in the right when they invaded Afghanistan

Imagine what would have happened if Donald's predecessor hadn't killed Bin Laden... our entire theory of 9/11 would have been scrapped by now...

 

[Desk trauma]

The US is self sufficient in energy. North America is self-sufficient in energy.

I made no mention of depending on their oil only the use of dollars on the oil exchanges.

I submit that the US no longer has to bow to the sheiks

Only if we are prepared for a catastrophe befalling our currency.

 

[TLK Valentine]

As long as the President and his son-in-law owe them bunches of money?

Indeed -- some might argue that Donald has a conflict of interest between his personal interests and the interests of the U.S., but I submit that Donald's only interests regarding the US is to prop up his personal interests -- therefore, in his mind, anyway, he has no conflict at all.

 

[rjs330]

Indeed -- some might argue that Donald has a conflict of interest between his personal interests and the interests of the U.S., but I submit that Donald's only interests regarding the US is to prop up his personal interests -- therefore, in his mind, anyway, he has no conflict at all.

Sounds like a conspiracy theory to.me.

Let's face it, the US has supported the Saudi's for a VERY long time regardless who was president or I control of Congress. Trying say it's about Trump's money just makes you sound petty and pushing a conspiracy theory. Trump isn't doing anything different in this regard than anyone else before him.

I dont like the support we give the Saudi's no matter who is or was president. I think Trump is falling in line with all his predecessors.

 

[mark46]

Are your saying that Jared's economic relationships with Saudi Arabia, Qatar and the UAE having no effect on Trump's positions with regard to the Middle East?

Sounds like a conspiracy theory to.me.

Let's face it, the US has supported the Saudi's for a VERY long time regardless who was president or I control of Congress. Trying say it's about Trump's money just makes you sound petty and pushing a conspiracy theory. Trump isn't doing anything different in this regard than anyone else before him.

I dont like the support we give the Saudi's no matter who is or was president. I think Trump is falling in line with all his predecessors.

 

[Speedwell]

Sounds like a conspiracy theory to.me.

Let's face it, the US has supported the Saudi's for a VERY long time regardless who was president or I control of Congress. Trying say it's about Trump's money just makes you sound petty and pushing a conspiracy theory. Trump isn't doing anything different in this regard than anyone else before him.

I dont like the support we give the Saudi's no matter who is or was president. I think Trump is falling in line with all his predecessors.

I think he is at the head of the pack. I don't recall any of his predecessors who wanted to give the Saudis the technology to produce weapons-grade uranium.

 

[TLK Valentine]

certainly for trump's supporters, who now believe that Russia was in the right when they invaded Afghanistan

Anyone who believes that is an even bigger fool than I previously suspected.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Sounds like a conspiracy theory to.me.

A conspiracy requires some sort of secret agreement between two parties. I'm merely suggesting the possibility that Donald is a completely self-obsessed greedy narcissistic megalomaniac.

To be certain, he has numerous other odious personality flaws, but the above are the only ones relevant to this discussion. The point is that it would hardly require a conspiracy theory for him to be the above.

Let's face it, the US has supported the Saudi's for a VERY long time regardless who was president or I control of Congress.

This is true -- we have been forced to turn a blind eye to many of their atrocities because of our reliance on them as part of our overarching foreign policy.

That, of course, was before our foreign policy became (in name only) "America first."

Trying say it's about Trump's money just makes you sound petty and pushing a conspiracy theory.

I can hardly out-petty Donald, and it hardly takes a conspiracy theory to say that he is doing what previous administrations have done, but for far more selfish reasons.

Donald's push for energy independence and domestic production, while misguided (bring back coal? Seriously?), would mean we no longer have to kowtow to the Saudis. Donald's choice to continue to do so indicates, at the very least, his (private) acknowledgment that those policies are as dismal a failure as everyone predicted.

At worse, well... his motivations are more personal.

Trump isn't doing anything different in this regard than anyone else before him.

But what's in it for him, personally, may be quite different. Unfortunately, Donald would blow a gasket (more so than usual) if anyone dared investigate his finances. There's a reason for that.

I dont like the support we give the Saudi's no matter who is or was president. I think Trump is falling in line with all his predecessors.

Indeed -- all his promises to Drain the Swamp and Make America Great Again are falling flat one by one...

 

[tall73]

The US is self sufficient in energy. North America is self-sufficient in energy.
Repeat 10 times, and then 10 more.
=======
The US needed to protect Kuwaiti oil interests. After all, Saddam Hussain threatened Saudi Arabia and the West's access to oil.

I submit that the US no longer has to bow to the sheiks. The Europeans also have other choices, including greater use of nuclear (France's choice) or more trade with Russia (Germany's choice). Also, all the EU will trade more with Iran.

The US does NOT have to choose to support the sheiks. How long should we continue to prop up the oppressive countries that we created?

As Desk Trauma was stating, it is not about dependence on the oil any longer. We can get energy domestically. But the value of the dollar is partly based on its being the reserve currency for the world, with high circulation internationally.

The Saudis, etc. price oil in dollars, which props up our dollar. A high percentage of all international transactions have dollars on at least one side, and OPEC's willingness to price oil in dollars has helped that circulation stay high.

This is why Venezuela, Iran, Russia, China, etc. are discussing selling oil in other currencies, as it is one aspect of the dollar staying as the reserve currency.

There is debate as to what would happen if OPEC stopped trading for oil in dollars. Some think it would cause the US dollar to decline as the reserve currency, and decline in value.

Hence there is an argument that the various US administrations are acting in America's interests by being allies with the Saudis. They are also one of the nations willing to buy US debt.

I would say we need to not support the Saudis in their wars in Yemen, Syria, etc. and if our cheap goods economy declines, it is a necessary price for not supporting evil.

And of course, the Saudi leverage is somewhat offset by our troops all around the world.

As it is we use those troops to support the Saudis, and they continue to support our economy through buying our debt and continuing to list oil in dollars.

 

[mark46]

Saudi Arabia's portion of US debt isn't very important. They aren't even in the top 10. Belgium, Luxembourg, and Ireland all hold more.


China, Mainland 1123.5 1121.4 1138.9 1151.4 1165.1 1171.0 1179.0 1183.1 1181.9 1187.7 1176.7 1168.2 1184.9
Japan 1042.3 1036.6 1018.5 1028.0 1029.9 1035.5 1032.2 1048.9 1031.8 1044.4 1060.1 1066.0 1061.6
Brazil 303.1 311.4 313.9 317.0 317.8 299.7 300.1 299.2 294.1 286.0 272.9 265.7 256.8
Ireland 280.0 279.6 287.3 290.4 311.6 300.2 301.3 301.0 300.6 318.1 314.2 327.7 326.6
United Kingdom 272.9 258.9 263.9 276.3 272.6 271.7 274.4 265.0 262.6 263.6 250.6 243.3 249.9
Switzerland 235.0 227.5 225.2 226.9 232.0 233.1 236.3 243.4 242.2 245.4 248.0 251.1 249.6
Luxembourg 231.0 225.7 225.4 227.2 224.0 221.5 220.5 208.9 213.8 221.5 218.6 220.9 217.6
Cayman Islands 211.0 207.5 208.2 200.2 197.5 197.9 191.1 186.2 181.3 165.9 177.3 168.0 170.6
Hong Kong 196.2 189.2 185.0 192.3 193.2 194.4 196.5 191.9 194.1 196.3 196.6 194.3 194.7
Belgium 185.7 173.0 169.7 164.7 154.3 154.5 154.7 150.5 139.5 126.7 126.8 124.6 119.2
Saudi Arabia 171.6 169.9 171.3 176.1 169.5 166.8 164.3 162.2 159.9 151.2 150.9 143.7 147.4
Taiwan 157.3 155.4 162.4 166.5 163.2 164.2 162.6 164.8 168.1 170.1 170.7 175.4 180.9
India 141.3 138.5 138.2 144.0 140.6 142.6 147.3 148.9 152.8 157.0 152.9 148.6 144.7
Singapore 121.1 128.8 133.0 134.5 129.9 127.6 122.1 118.9 118.0 117.8 118.0 122.6 125.0
Korea 114.9 110.2 111.1 110.8 110.2 109.1 106.1 104.8 104.7 100.6 101.3 101.8 96.3
France 110.9 131.6 109.4 97.7 113.6 111.0 93.4 89.6 82.6 80.9 77.0 78.4 80.9
Canada 109.9

As Desk Trauma was stating, it is not about dependence on the oil any longer. We can get energy domestically. But the value of the dollar is partly based on its being the reserve currency for the world, with high circulation internationally.

The Saudis, etc. price oil in dollars, which props up our dollar. A high percentage of all international transactions have dollars on at least one side, and OPEC's willingness to price oil in dollars has helped that circulation stay high.

This is why Venezuela, Iran, Russia, China, etc. are discussing selling oil in other currencies, as it is one aspect of the dollar staying as the reserve currency.

There is debate as to what would happen if OPEC stopped trading for oil in dollars. Some think it would cause the US dollar to decline as the reserve currency, and decline in value.

Hence there is an argument that the various US administrations are acting in America's interests by being allies with the Saudis. They are also one of the nations willing to buy US debt.


I would say we need to not support the Saudis in their wars in Yemen, Syria, etc. and if our cheap goods economy declines, it is a necessary price for not supporting evil.

And of course, the Saudi leverage is somewhat offset by our troops all around the world.

As it is we use those troops to support the Saudis, and they continue to support our economy through buying our debt and continuing to list oil in dollars.

 

[mark46]

I agree that petrodollars moving off the dollar would be disruptive.

However, there is a limit with regard to how much we should allow the sheiks to control our foreign policy. I would argue that the cost of fighting the Wahabbi funded terrorists (including al Qaeda and ISIS) is much more costly to the US.

As Desk Trauma was stating, it is not about dependence on the oil any longer. We can get energy domestically. But the value of the dollar is partly based on its being the reserve currency for the world, with high circulation internationally.

The Saudis, etc. price oil in dollars, which props up our dollar. A high percentage of all international transactions have dollars on at least one side, and OPEC's willingness to price oil in dollars has helped that circulation stay high.

This is why Venezuela, Iran, Russia, China, etc. are discussing selling oil in other currencies, as it is one aspect of the dollar staying as the reserve currency.

There is debate as to what would happen if OPEC stopped trading for oil in dollars. Some think it would cause the US dollar to decline as the reserve currency, and decline in value.

Hence there is an argument that the various US administrations are acting in America's interests by being allies with the Saudis. They are also one of the nations willing to buy US debt.

I would say we need to not support the Saudis in their wars in Yemen, Syria, etc. and if our cheap goods economy declines, it is a necessary price for not supporting evil.

And of course, the Saudi leverage is somewhat offset by our troops all around the world.

As it is we use those troops to support the Saudis, and they continue to support our economy through buying our debt and continuing to list oil in dollars.

 

[tall73]

Saudi Arabia's portion of US debt isn't very important. They aren't even in the top 10. Belgium, Luxembourg, and Ireland all hold more.


China, Mainland 1123.5 1121.4 1138.9 1151.4 1165.1 1171.0 1179.0 1183.1 1181.9 1187.7 1176.7 1168.2 1184.9
Japan 1042.3 1036.6 1018.5 1028.0 1029.9 1035.5 1032.2 1048.9 1031.8 1044.4 1060.1 1066.0 1061.6
Brazil 303.1 311.4 313.9 317.0 317.8 299.7 300.1 299.2 294.1 286.0 272.9 265.7 256.8
Ireland 280.0 279.6 287.3 290.4 311.6 300.2 301.3 301.0 300.6 318.1 314.2 327.7 326.6
United Kingdom 272.9 258.9 263.9 276.3 272.6 271.7 274.4 265.0 262.6 263.6 250.6 243.3 249.9
Switzerland 235.0 227.5 225.2 226.9 232.0 233.1 236.3 243.4 242.2 245.4 248.0 251.1 249.6
Luxembourg 231.0 225.7 225.4 227.2 224.0 221.5 220.5 208.9 213.8 221.5 218.6 220.9 217.6
Cayman Islands 211.0 207.5 208.2 200.2 197.5 197.9 191.1 186.2 181.3 165.9 177.3 168.0 170.6
Hong Kong 196.2 189.2 185.0 192.3 193.2 194.4 196.5 191.9 194.1 196.3 196.6 194.3 194.7
Belgium 185.7 173.0 169.7 164.7 154.3 154.5 154.7 150.5 139.5 126.7 126.8 124.6 119.2
Saudi Arabia 171.6 169.9 171.3 176.1 169.5 166.8 164.3 162.2 159.9 151.2 150.9 143.7 147.4
Taiwan 157.3 155.4 162.4 166.5 163.2 164.2 162.6 164.8 168.1 170.1 170.7 175.4 180.9
India 141.3 138.5 138.2 144.0 140.6 142.6 147.3 148.9 152.8 157.0 152.9 148.6 144.7
Singapore 121.1 128.8 133.0 134.5 129.9 127.6 122.1 118.9 118.0 117.8 118.0 122.6 125.0
Korea 114.9 110.2 111.1 110.8 110.2 109.1 106.1 104.8 104.7 100.6 101.3 101.8 96.3
France 110.9 131.6 109.4 97.7 113.6 111.0 93.4 89.6 82.6 80.9 77.0 78.4 80.9
Canada 109.9

They were recently in the tenth spot last July:

Saudi Arabia owns $166.8 billion in US debt - CNN


Also they note that the amount may not be fully known.

But saying that they hold much less than others misses the point. We have an interest in keeping more countries willing to buy our debt. And though it would hurt them, if they dumped the debt, depending on how many others would buy it up, it could have an impact.

But this was listed as a secondary issue in my response. I noted that the larger issue is whether they list oil in dollars. And even the impact of that is debated. But it does give one possible reason why we strive to keep them happy, despite their being a terrible regime.

 

[tall73]

I agree that petrodollars moving off the dollar would be disruptive.

However, there is a limit with regard to how much we should allow the sheiks to control our foreign policy. I would argue that the cost of fighting the Wahabbi funded terrorists (including al Qaeda and ISIS) is much more costly to the US.

Yes, my statement to you was that I would not support helping them at all in foreign policy. We should pay the price, whatever it may wind up, for not helping them.

But the possibility of economic disruption, losing a buyer of debt, and the certainty of losing a number of arms sales, etc. means there will be representatives who do not want to rock the boat.

The Saudis have been buying arms at higher rates lately.

Saudi Arabia is the world’s largest importer of weapons right now

 

[TLK Valentine]

I think he is at the head of the pack. I don't recall any of his predecessors who wanted to give the Saudis the technology to produce weapons-grade uranium.

Because there's no way a state sponsor of terrorism would ever misuse that kind of tech...

 

[Belk]

Because there's no way a state sponsor of terrorism would ever misuse that kind of tech...

View attachment 252476

"If you can't trust the governments of the world, who can you trust?"

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

Saudi jurisdiction. Not US jurisdiction.

 

[Pommer]

Saudi jurisdiction. Not US jurisdiction.

Washing our hands of a fellow (naturalized) American!?
What was his “crime”?