Satanic Oppression?

[Isaiah4031nc101]

you see there are rules for this thread but to go by the rules of the Bible does matter.

this is pentacostal /chrasmatis the way I see it

 

[followjesus777]

possible but not probable. We are capable of being perfect, are we? No. But we are to DO OUR BEST to be perfect.

Yes possible of 'being made perfect' ONLY by the "ATTONEMENT"(lookup the word) "ONLY by the blood"...not by anything we do(works)All we must do is Believe and 'accept the Gift of attonement' and The Holy Spirit deposited in us at that point! Jesus, through the work of the Holy Spirit, will refine and perfect and finish our faith in time...a life time!

ttyl,
i need to get some work done.
Anyone send me your email addy, i will send stuff about Eternal salvation being eternal...if you are open to learning and growing and admitting that every one of us can be wrong sometimes and learn...if you want to send me your rebuttle to the stuff i send you then i will gladly listen i open to refining my faith.

 

[psalms 91]

ok well then with your perspective, if you can 'perfectly succeed in your works' in 'every letter of the law' you will be let in because if you commit one you commit all...but you will be the only one there With your perspecitve!

Warning...if you rely on your works and not Christ's blood attonement ALONE" ..."than Christ died for nothing"

pls send me your email and i will send you the Truth i have also recently learned about Eternal salvation!

My E mail is open and I believe in eternal security as long as we stay in Christ. The danger with your doctrine is that I could live like the devil and still be in the kingdom. Christs sacrifice was to allow us to obtain forgiveness and not be under the law so that we can boldly enter the throne room to obtain grace and mercy. It does not mean we will not sin but that we will repent and ask forgiveness and try to follow, the heart, remember, thats why I cannot judge because only God knows the heart. I do know that I cannot willfully sin and go to heaven in that state so I cant believe in eternal security as you do.

 

[followjesus777]

My E mail is open and I believe in eternal security as long as we stay in Christ. The danger with your doctrine is that I could live like the devil and still be in the kingdom. Christs sacrifice was to allow us to obtain forgiveness and not be under the law so that we can boldly enter the throne room to obtain grace and mercy. It does not mean we will not sin but that we will repent and ask forgiveness and try to follow, the heart, remember, thats why I cannot judge because only God knows the heart. I do know that I cannot willfully sin and go to heaven in that state so I cant believe in eternal security as you do.

The scripture you give as proof...goes on in context to (He12:5-8)

As i have already shared...The Lord will chasen ALL those(that are truly His) who do not repent, perhaps he may even their lives if they do not repent but one cannot loose a gift that is "EVERLASTING AND ETERNAL".

Remeber scripture also says many will be saved as though they walked through fire!

i would send it from my email to your email so i need to know your email if you are willing send it in a pm.

 

[amdntstr]

Noah was perfect and blameless ONLY BY HIS FAITH in God...not by his OWN actions...Noah was STILL righteous EVEN though NOAH GOT DRUNK etc...please do not believe Noah didnt commit sin. He did you do and i do. Also Noah's son was sinful BY exposing Noah's sin and exploiting it and not 'covering in love' as his other brothers did!~

ONLY BY THE BLOOD "ATTONEMENT'(look it up) ARE WE FREED FROM THE CURSE OF SIN. This doesnt me we never sin it means we are free from 'the curse'. Please ...if there were one person that never sinner other than Jesus but there simply isnt.

Where have I ever said that he didn't sin? Where have I ever said that we are perect, execept in the eyes of God? There is still the matter of repenting and turning our back to sin and donig our best to not sin.

Just because we are free from the curse is not excuse for sinning, it means that we no longer have a sinful spirit. We have the same spirit in us that Jesus had in Himself. We have the same spirit in us that Adam had before the fall.

Again, this does not exuse of of sin, we still have to repent and do our best to not sin. If we follow after our own lust and desires instead of following God to the best of our ablilty we are still doomed to hell.

I will not change my mind on this. I have shown plenty of scripture that prove this to be true.

We have to be doers of the Word and not just hearers of the Word.

James 1:
20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed

Lu 8:21
But He answered and said to them, "My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it."

Acts 24:
15 having a hope in God, which these R1464 men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. 16 "In view of this, I also do my best to maintain always a blameless conscience both before God and before men.

Read Revelations 2 and 3. This is talking to the churches. Those who have been born again but did not repent of their sins. They were not saved from hell.

 

[Isaiah4031nc101]

Yes possible of 'being made perfect' ONLY by the "ATTONEMENT"(lookup the word) "ONLY by the blood"...not by anything we do(works)All we must do is Believe and 'accept the Gift of attonement' and The Holy Spirit deposited in us at that point! Jesus, through the work of the Holy Spirit, will refine and perfect and finish our faith in time...a life time!

ttyl,
i need to get some work done.
Anyone send me your email addy, i will send stuff about Eternal salvation being eternal...if you are open to learning and growing and admitting that every one of us can be wrong sometimes and learn...if you want to send me your rebuttle to the stuff i send you then i will gladly listen i open to refining my faith.

Before I leave I will say this you have did all that you have accuse all of doing. If the idea and convictions and post are not as yours are then they are wrong and and you are the only one right. As I see it you are no different than what you accuse us of being, ( not bearing fruit of the spirit ) You know I thought that maybe this would be a good place to come and share with others but after reading and looking at all this I doubt it is. So, ya'll take care

 

[followjesus777]

Before I leave I will say this you have did all that you have accuse all of doing. If the idea and convictions and post are not as yours are then they are wrong and and you are the only one right. As I see it you are no different than what you accuse us of being, ( not bearing fruit of the spirit ) You know I thought that maybe this would be a good place to come and share with others but after reading and looking at all this I doubt it is. So, ya'll take care

God bless you i am deeply sorry if i have offended you !

i NEVER claimed to be "the only one right or perfect " i am being made perfect only by the Blood attonement and the finisher of my faith....noone is 'there yet'...i am still growing and learning everyday..."iron sharpens iron" i pray that you are also.

Again i am sorry for 'offending' you pls forgive me!
God bless you!

i have always agreed that "we should strive to perfect our doctrines and obey"...but we are not saved by our 'works' at all and i stand by ..."ONLY BY THE BLOOD" "otherwise Christ died for nothing"! Galations!!!!!!!

 

[God_Owned]

Agreed.

I know that this is a hard thing to do and I myself am not perfect in this, far from it. I believe in doing the best that I can, but and this is a big but, God promised that He would not allow us to carry more than we can handle. In other words, if my best is not working then I need to work harder. This does not mean that we will never sin again, it only means that He made it possible to be perfect and if we fail, we fail on our own.

1 Cor 10:
10 Nor grumble, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the destroyer.
11 Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come. 12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed that he does not fall.
13 No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it.

Another misconception that many have is that being free from sin equals walking perfect before the Lord. There are many people who have crucified their flesh, but still haven't learned do all thing perfectly. This might be seen as a child who is obedient to their parents, but isn't focusing on their school work as well as they might.

 

[amdntstr]

See then, what you are attempting to teach is not WoF according to Hagin or Copeland. Both people I referance to.

Both of them will say that we have to be ready and that we have to repent and that we have to turn away from sin. They will both tell you that there is no "assurance of salvation" if we continue to live in sin.

 

[amdntstr]

And again you dismiss the Word because it doesn't line up with what you think.

The bible is clear and I am so sorry your have the misconception that it does not mean what it says. I shall pray that the HS will open your eyes and that you open your heart to what the Word says. You have said quite a bit but have yet been able to dispute any of the scriptures I have presented, not one. You have made a lot of claim with out scriptural backing and that which goes against the scriptures that have been posting.

I am wasting my time.

God bless and I will be praying for you.

 

[followjesus777]

Any time you have asked for the verse have i not provided it...thankyou for your prayers God bless you!

i went to copelands and Hagins statement of faith and neither seems to indicate that they dont believe in Salvation by Grace/the Blood attonement ALONE ....but if what you say is true that is news to me!

Turning away from sin is a lifetime process! not an overnight occurance for ANYONE sister!

Pls which things that i said would you like the reference?
i will provide it!

 

[amdntstr]

One must understand the "seal" - a seal authenticates and proves its genuineness, it's a mark of ownership (like branding an animal), and it's a means of security (at one time I had to close and seal railroad cars that were full of parts leaving Ford Motor Co. property, but once it was received by the purchasing company, the seal was broken so that the new company could continue on with their job using those parts). Now, when we are sealed by the Holy Spirit, He accomplishes His work, how? Through His Word! Can anyone force you to accept the Word? No! Our relationship begins as we use and obey His Word, and become committed to the teachings of Jesus Christ. One must choose, agree, and live it all. Therefore, the seal is not forced upon anyone. Now, if you believe that once you are saved, you are sealed forever, you believe something other than what the Scripture teaches. The Word tells us that an individual who is saved can sin and forfeit their salvation. Remember when Paul wrote to those who had one time been faithful but had now gone back to Judaism. He said: "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace." (Gal. 5:4) These Jews did believe at one time, but again were caught up in their law and no longer had grace; they gave it back by their UNBELIEF because they went back under the law. Do you believe that these Jews were still sealed with the Spirit? The seal was broken when they left the truth and returned to Judaism. Christ could not be forced on them, just as the seal cannot be forced on anyone today, one must choose, agree, and live it all. Our salvation is through faith, and the Holy Spirit will teach and guide us IF we remain faithful to the Lord and believe not in vain (read I Cor. 15:1-2).

One doesn't gain salvation, one believes in the Word and lives it and one can give it back again by unbelief, even by sin, just as those who returned to Judaism. God has nothing to do with it, because it was all done by Jesus on the tree. He offers it to us, but you must accept it all by faith and live by EVERY WORD of it, not just by what your religion tells you. Get in the Word.

 

[amdntstr]

Jesus wrote the Book of Revelation. It is a warning and it starts with the church (body of Christ, not the buildings of religion), and Jesus says in Rev. 2:4-7 - "Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." - And so on! Who do you think Christ is warning? Christ is warning Christians, and if they were sealed, why the Book of Revelation and its warnings? You can break the seal by SIN and never repenting! Did you know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? I'll say again, according to the Scripture: I Cor. 6:9,10 - "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind. Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." An adulterer is ANY person who commits adultery, even as David did. Was he not saved and then committed adultery? Of course he repented of his sin - WE MUST REPENT OF SIN Do you have any knowledge as to just how many people who believe in OSAS have no fear at all of going to hell because they have been so deceived by religious teachers? Too, too many!

Philippians 1
6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
7
God promices to complete the Work he started in us at salvation, up until Jesus return, which could be any day, even today.

The word for perform is the word epiteleo which means:

-To fulfill completely
-To accomplish
-To perfect
-To finish

He completed the WORK in Christ Jesus, one must still apply that faith and belief in HIM, of which we are not forced, it's a free gift, but, anyone, like the Jews, can give it back. We must each strive to continually live faithfully for Him, and, as long as we abide in Him we are secure in Him.

 

[God_Owned]

Hmmm...this is where i have to disagree...pls name one person other than Jesus who has sucessfully...."acts perfect in the sight of God and men"...Perfect is a tall order and impossible for us to act perfect 100% of the time.
This belief is false.

Yes we can be free ONLY BY The Blood. Not free by/of not sinning ever again...this simply is imposible until we are with The Lord!

Sorry this was bugging me so im really going now!

Do you have time for me to pool the whole population of the Earth? lol

Even if I could not name one person whose way God counted as perfect, it wouldn't change God's Word. God tells Christians that perfection is possible and instructs Christians to be perfect in Christ with the outward result of being perfect in our behavior. He would be a pretty mean, unethical and dishonest God if He were pushing us towards an unachievable goal.

God tells us to do those things that he knows, that through Him, we can achieve.

Now having said this, I will honor your request by pointing out some folks who God has called perfect. The following verses may help your understanding of what God sees as the desired end result of perfection in His children.

Genesis 6:9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

1 Kings 15:14 But the high places were not removed: nevertheless Asa's heart was perfect with the LORD all his days.

1 Chronicles 12:38 All these men of war, that could keep rank, came with a perfect heart to Hebron, to make David king over all Israel: and all the rest also of Israel were of one heart to make David king.

1 Chronicles 29:9 Then the people rejoiced, for that they offered willingly, because with perfect heart they offered willingly to the LORD: and David the king also rejoiced with great joy.

2 Chronicles 15:17 But the high places were not taken away out of Israel: nevertheless the heart of Asa was perfect all his days.

Job 1:1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.

Job 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

Luke 6:40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.

John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

1 Corinthians 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

2 Corinthians 13:11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Ephesians 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Ephesians 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Philippians 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Colossians 4:12 Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.

2 Timothy 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

James 3:2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.

 

[amdntstr]

No, no man can pluck us away, but Satan is quite able to draw and pull us away through his deceitful tricks using false doctrine such as the religious Baptist doctrine of Once Saved Always Saved. Christ warns us of unbelief and sin which will break the seal or covenant with the Lord. We are warned continually in His Word - each of us must overcome - Rev. 2:26 - "And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations" and Rev. 3:21 - "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne." Why did Jesus tell us: "be zealous therefore and repent" Rev. 3:19.

The Scripture does not back OSAS; it in fact leads to a false faith. Satan is very shrewd. He fooled the Jews and weren't they sealed? NO! They sinned and paid the price - HELL! They sold their birth right to Satan, so do the Baptists or any other religion that teaches another gospel. 90% of the Bible is warning - to be aware of Satan and sin - We must be aware of Satan and sin. Satan hasn't lost yet, he is still in the fight for souls, Jews and Christian first. Be on guard, always! As Paul warned Timothy to endure, I warn you also - to keep on keeping on, endure no matter what.

 

[amdntstr]

Any time you have asked for the verse have i not provided it...thankyou for your prayers God bless you!

i went to copelands and Hagins statement of faith and neither seems to indicate that they dont believe in Salvation by Grace/the Blood attonement ALONE ....but if what you say is true that is news to me!

Turning away from sin is a lifetime process! not an overnight occurance for ANYONE sister!

Pls which things that i said would you like the reference?
i will provide it!

There is NO salvation without repentance.

Once saved always saved is not a concept which either one of those teach nor has it been a concept that has been taught by any of the soo many different WoF preachers I have been under for the last 25 years, including my current one.

I dare say that once saved always saved is not a WoF concept. We can forfeit our salvation by not repenting of our sins and not turning our backs on sin. The blood does not cover unrighteousness nor those who follow after such. Scriptures support what I teach as do all of the WoF teacher I have had the privalege of sitting under.

I grew up WoF and I grew up under Rhema grads as well as papa Hagin himself. We lived and breathed Hagin and Copeland.

Nope, turning away from sin with the intent to never sin again is not a life long process, It is a deliberate act and is a decision we make. We make of our own free will to do our BEST not to ever sin again. We make the decision to not live daily in sin. WE decide, it is not a process.

 

[amdntstr]

Do you not yet understand the difference between repentance and living in sin? There is a huge difference between the two.

When you repent you areturning your back away from sin with the intent to NEVER sin again, this however does not mean that we will not slip and fall. But while we are doing our best to never sin again, our sins are forgiven us and we are perfect in the eyes of God. "as if we have never sinned"

Living in sin is when we do not make the decision to DO our BEST to not sin again and we continue to do the sin on a daily basis. When we have not made the decision that we WILL follow the Word and not our desires. This is when we have not made the choice as azzy has not make yet, that he will stop playing with witchcraft.
This is not covered under the blood because the scriptures make it clear that we must repent and turn away from sin.

This is what Hagin and Copeland teach and what WoF teaches.

 

[followjesus777]

Do you not yet understand the difference between repentance and living in sin? There is a huge difference between the two.

When you repent you areturning your back away from sin with the intent to NEVER sin again, this however does not mean that we will not slip and fall. But while we are doing our best to never sin again, our sins are forgiven us and we are perfect in the eyes of God. "as if we have never sinned"

Living in sin is when we do not make the decision to DO our BEST to not sin again and we continue to do the sin on a daily basis. When we have not made the decision that we WILL follow the Word and not our desires. This is when we have not made the choice as azzy has not make yet, that he will stop playing with witchcraft.
This is not covered under the blood because the scriptures make it clear that we must repent and turn away from sin.

This is what Hagin and Copeland teach and what WoF teaches.

Repent YES...and be paitient...sins are peeled away from us day by day...as the Holy Spirit brings us into AWARENESS and repentance in His Timing and with chasening even at times unto death but once one becomes 'a child', the position of child cannot be taken away even unto death...PTL that THE GIFT of salvation itself, once truly recieved, is without repentance. The Holy Spirit/Jesus/God is the one ensures we do not 'live' forever in sin... through awareness, conviction and chasening sometimes even by taking our life if we children do not listen. But Praise the Lord He is Patient! Also the Holy Spirit will help 'our works' become more and more Christlike/perfect everyday.

i have miles of info and scripture to support Eternal Salvation...if you are open to refinement as i am i will send it to you and you may send your rebuttle but you must pm your email address because it is on my email.

i know what you are saying and i said the same thing until recently ...BUT i have come to learn that once we are marked..."His GRACE is sufficient" and if our works/performance had ANYTHING to do with it then it wouldnt be 'BY GRACE ALONE' that we are saved!
Be blessed!

 

[God_Owned]

There is NO salvation without repentance.

Once saved always saved is not a concept which either one of those teach nor has it been a concept that has been taught by any of the soo many different WoF preachers I have been under for the last 25 years, including my current one.

I dare say that once saved always saved is not a WoF concept. We can forfeit our salvation by not repenting of our sins and not turning our backs on sin. The blood does not cover unrighteousness nor those who follow after such. Scriptures support what I teach as do all of the WoF teacher I have had the privalege of sitting under.

I grew up WoF and I grew up under Rhema grads as well as papa Hagin himself. We lived and breathed Hagin and Copeland.

Nope, turning away from sin with the intent to never sin again is not a life long process, It is a deliberate act and is a decision we make. We make of our own free will to do our BEST not to ever sin again. We make the decision to not live daily in sin. WE decide, it is not a process.

I'm a Spirit filled Word-of Faith Christian.

Actually what I've heard taught by Kenneth Hagin Sr. and T.L. Osborn is that the only unforgivable sin is blaspheming the Holy Ghost which they have said is living or being in unbelief of the Holy Ghost's ability to bring the things promised us in the Word to pass in our lives. Forgiven in this instance means that you can't get it until you believe it.

I've heard Copeland explain that sin may not keep a lot Christians out of Heaven, but is will keep a Christians from enjoying Heaven on Earth.

I've also read a book called Visions by Hagain, where in he gives an account of a preacher's wife who had met all of the qualifications in Hebrews, for someone to renounce God. He said that this person did renounce God and lost their salvation. He said it was not God's idea for this person to renounce their salvation. God would have forgiven her at any point in time until she, once and for all, turned her back on Jesus. He also said that very few Christians have ever reached this level of accountability.

 

[followjesus777]

I'm a Spirit filled Word-of Faith Christian.

Actually what I've heard taught by Kenneth Hagin Sr. and T.L. Osborn is that the only unforgivable sin is blaspheming the Holy Ghost which they have said is living or being in unbelief of the Holy Ghost's ability to bring the things promised us in the Word to pass in our lives. Forgiven in this instance means that you can't get it until you believe it.

I've heard Copeland explain that sin may not keep a lot Christians out of Heaven, but is will keep a Christians from enjoying Heaven on Earth.

I've also read a book called Visions by Hagain, where in he gives an account of a preacher's wife who had met all of the qualifications in Hebrews, for someone to renounce God. He said that this person did renounce God and lost their salvation. He said it was not God's idea for this person to renounce their salvation. God would have forgiven her at any point in time until she, once and for all, turned her back on Jesus. He also said that very few Christians have ever reached this level of accountability.

it is written...
"The gifts and calling of God are WITHOUT repentance"(Romans11:29)

Salvation is a gift...it doesnt say unless you do this or that...it says "the gifts ...OF GOD ARE WITHOUT Repentance"

This is the tip of the iceberg to support "ETERNAL SALVATION BY GRACE ALONE". if you pm me your email i will try to fwd all the info!
i have a ton of respect for Hagin but even he(or his faith OR his perception of the truth) isnt 'perfect' and neither am i! i am learning day by day we all have a long way to go before WE ARE PERFECT in our understanding and our acts!PTL!