Santorum Calls for End of Public Education...

[mpok1519]

Rick Santorum Calls For End Of Public Education, Says Parents Should Home School Their Kids | Addicting Info

This is a continuance thread from one that just disappeared.

Now, who out there thinks public school should be abolished? If so, should there be a law mandating parents homeschool their children? If so, what educational and academic standards should they meet, if any? If there are no mandate of standards, would this allow parents to not school their children if they so wished?

Should it be within a parent's freedom to make sure their kids are not educated? If a parent feels that is best for their child, should they be allowed to do it, begging to ask the question, "Do parents always know whats best?"

Heres another question; should it be a law that kids go to school, public, private or at home? Why or why not?

 

[EdwinWillers]

Rick Santorum Calls For End Of Public Education, Says Parents Should Home School Their Kids | Addicting Info

This is a continuance thread from one that just disappeared.

Now, who out there thinks public school should be abolished? If so, should there be a law mandating parents homeschool their children? If so, what educational and academic standards should they meet, if any? If there are no mandate of standards, would this allow parents to not school their children if they so wished?

Should it be within a parent's freedom to make sure their kids are not educated? If a parent feels that is best for their child, should they be allowed to do it, begging to ask the question, "Do parents always know whats best?"

Heres another question; should it be a law that kids go to school, public, private or at home? Why or why not?

Let's redefine "public" school.

I am 100% behind abolishing the department of education and eliminating every federal involvement in public education. The federal government has no business - and certainly no constitutional authority - for being involved in this nation's public schools. None.

I'm fine with states and even counties or municipalities running their own systems. And constitutionally, they have such authority.

Moreover, parents would actually have a viable say in what their [state's] public school system - contrary to what happens in a bureaucratically-run federal system (case in point - the recent incident in North Carolina where a federal food nazi took one kindergartner's lunch from them, forced them to eat a school-provided lunch, and then billed [and scolded] the parent).

If one state wants to make it a requirement children attend [their] public school system, they have that right. And if a state doesn't want to mandate it, they have that right as well. And frankly, with 50 states, I suspect you'd get 50 completely different systems that run the spectrum between those two alternatives, and I equally suspect that none of the states' plans would be on the extreme of either end.

Oh, and by the way, Rick Santorum DID NOT call for homeschooling to replace public schooling.

“Yes, the government can help, but the idea that the federal government should be running schools, frankly much less that the state government should be running schools, is anachronistic.”

Typical absurd spin and prevarication from the leftist media.

 

[DaisyDay]

It's odd that he voted for the expensive "No Child Left Behind" when he want to do away with public schools altogether.

 

[blueapplepaste]

Obviously the way to continue to compete in an advanced global economy is to completely gut education.

 

[AlexBP]

Rick Santorum Calls For End Of Public Education, Says Parents Should Home School Their Kids | Addicting Info

Really? When exactly did Rick Santorum "call for the end of public education"? Can you tell me the date, time, and location at which Rick Santourm "called for the end of public education"? Better yet, can you post a video of Rick Santorum "calling for the end of public education"? And if not, is there any reason why I shouldn't classify your claim as a blatant lie?

 

[Rion]

Obviously the way to continue to compete in an advanced global economy is to completely gut education.

Kill the DoE and return power to the states. I know there'd be less indoctrination but I think the higher test sccores would be worth it. Don't you?

 

[mpok1519]

Let's redefine "public" school.

What would it be if it were ran by state tax dollars only? It would still be public.

I am 100% behind abolishing the department of education and eliminating every federal involvement in public education. The federal government has no business - and certainly no constitutional authority - for being involved in this nation's public schools. None.

Except for the general welfare clause that says the federal government can levy moneys for the general welfare of the country. Education would be considered a factor of the country's general welfare.

I'm fine with states and even counties or municipalities running their own systems. And constitutionally, they have such authority.

The problem with that is a city or county can suddenly decide that creationism is scientific. Sure, the federal government can to, but, well, won't.

Moreover, parents would actually have a viable say in what their [state's] public school system - contrary to what happens in a bureaucratically-run federal system (case in point - the recent incident in North Carolina where a federal food nazi took one kindergartner's lunch from them, forced them to eat a school-provided lunch, and then billed [and scolded] the parent).

Oh, that article. Yeah, the school didn't take away the kid's lunch, the school simply supplimented another lunch to complete nutrition standards and then charged the parents a buck and some change. How does this at all warrant a comparison to nazis? Giving the kid some food and charging less than what some toll booths charge is on keel with trying to take over europe, genocide of the jews and chemical warfare? I think you're over exagerrating.

If one state wants to make it a requirement children attend [their] public school system, they have that right. And if a state doesn't want to mandate it, they have that right as well. And frankly, with 50 states, I suspect you'd get 50 completely different systems that run the spectrum between those two alternatives, and I equally suspect that none of the states' plans would be on the extreme of either end.

So, if a state wanted to get rid of the laws that say children must be educated, they should be allowed to do that, regardless of the detriment it would cause?

Oh, and by the way, Rick Santorum DID NOT call for homeschooling to replace public schooling. Typical absurd spin and prevarication from the leftist media.

He certainly insinuated it.



The problem with locally ran education is within the decided curiculumn; local officials can suddenly decide what is not scientific to be apart of the curiculumn. Thats just one of my worries. Here in Kansas some years back, the state board of education declared it would not teach evolution. Luckily enough people voted out those folks in the next election. Yet, not every state, county or city can be as lucky.

 

[mpok1519]

Really? When exactly did Rick Santorum "call for the end of public education"? Can you tell me the date, time, and location at which Rick Santourm "called for the end of public education"? Better yet, can you post a video of Rick Santorum "calling for the end of public education"? And if not, is there any reason why I shouldn't classify your claim as a blatant lie?

“Yes, the government can help, but the idea that the federal government should be running schools, frankly much less that the state government should be running schools, is anachronistic.”

He certainly is insinuating that government ran schools are a bad thing. The word anachronistic means outdated. From this we can safely assume he feels the public education system should be updated by getting rid of the old system.

 

[mpok1519]

Kill the DoE and return power to the states. I know there'd be less indoctrination but I think the higher test sccores would be worth it. Don't you?

What indoctrination do public schools do? Indoctrination of academics? How is this bad?

 

[chaz345]

It's odd that he voted for the expensive "No Child Left Behind" when he want to do away with public schools altogether.

Except that he doesn't what to do away with public schools altogether. Why is it so many seem to have such a hard time distinguishing from FEDERAL government involvement in something and all government involvement in something? He's calling for an end to, or a very drastic reduction in FEDERAL government control and involvement in public education.

 

[mpok1519]

Except that he doesn't what to do away with public schools altogether. Why is it so many seem to have such a hard time distinguishing from FEDERAL government involvement in something and all government involvement in something? He's calling for an end to, or a very drastic reduction in FEDERAL government control and involvement in public education.

what does it matter if the federal government is in charge of it? How would state control be better?

 

[AlexBP]

“Yes, the government can help, but the idea that the federal government should be running schools, frankly much less that the state government should be running schools, is anachronistic.”

He certainly is insinuating that government ran schools are a bad thing. The word anachronistic means outdated. From this we can safely assume he feels the public education system should be updated by getting rid of the old system.

Supposing I accept, for the moment, that Santorum actually did say this, it does not equal to calling for the end of public education. Public schools are generally run by city or county governments. State and federal governments provide money and impose some regulations, but the only instance in which they actually run schools in when there's an emergency government takeover of a school district, and that typically lasts for only a short time before control reverts to the locals. There's no evidence that increased federal and state regulation of schools leads to a better education for students. Indeed, there's ample evidence that it has the opposite effect. Santorum's statement is therefore the height of reason, and the media twits who are having hysterics about the subject are the ones who I look down on.

Santorum's real point is that public schools in this country do a miserable job. That's true, and virtually everyone in the country acknowledges it to be true. Where Santorum differs from his critics is in the response. Santorum thinks we should change the system so that all children can have a good education. The liberal elite, on the other hand, prefer to send their own children to private schools while keeping poor children, especially blacks and Hispanics, trapped in failing public schools.

 

[AlexBP]

The problem with locally ran education is within the decided curiculumn; local officials can suddenly decide what is not scientific to be apart of the curiculumn. Thats just one of my worries. Here in Kansas some years back, the state board of education declared it would not teach evolution. Luckily enough people voted out those folks in the next election. Yet, not every state, county or city can be as lucky.

Perhaps I'm missing something. The last time I checked, Kansas was a state, so if you object to what the Kansas Board of Education did, wouldn't that be an argument against state control and for local control?

More significantly, why should the control of education be determined solely by what stance various authorities might take on the teaching of creationism? Why is that so important, while the quality of the education that schools actually deliver is apparently totally unimportant?

What indoctrination do public schools do?

It's not exactly a secret that the people who run public schools and the material that gets taught lean far to the left. A few years ago, when the Texas Board of Education suggested that educational standards should be shifted a tiny bit towards reflecting what the American people believe, the left threw a years-long hissy fit that's still going on.

 

[mpok1519]

Santorum's real point is that public schools in this country do a miserable job. That's true, and virtually everyone in the country acknowledges it to be true.

No they don't. I think our schools can do better, but I don't think they're doing amiserable job.

 

[mpok1519]

Perhaps I'm missing something. The last time I checked, Kansas was a state, so if you object to what the Kansas Board of Education did, wouldn't that be an argument against state control and for local control?

Local control that first made a terrible decision, and then people had to scramble to right was was wrong. I think it would be best if the DoE imposed certain standards for curicula so localities can't suddenly decide that their kids are going to be taught how man coexisted with the dinosaurs, and how carbon dating is a lie.

More significantly, why should the control of education be determined solely by what stance various authorities might take on the teaching of creationism?

solely by what stance various authorities might take on creationism? No, not solely.

Why is that so important, while the quality of the education that schools actually deliver is apparently totally unimportant?

I would contend that quality goes down when they teach falsehoods.

It's not exactly a secret that the people who run public schools and the material that gets taught lean far to the left. A few years ago, when the Texas Board of Education suggested that educational standards should be shifted a tiny bit towards reflecting what the American people believe, the left threw a years-long hissy fit that's still going on.

Facts and information aren't based upon what people believe, however. They're based on what we can observe and measure.

 

[AlexBP]

No they don't. I think our schools can do better, but I don't think they're doing amiserable job.

I said "virtually everyone" knows that our schools are doing badly, not everyone. There will always be a few folks in denial. But did you read what I linked to earlier? Half of America's government schools are failing. According to who? According to the government itself. If the government says that half of government schools are doing that badly, how is it possible to assert that they aren't? Or if that doesn't convince you, how about this report on the New York City Public Schools. Less than half of high school students graduate in four years, many schools are "educational dead zones", and only 16% of students can pass the Regents Biology exam.

But hey, they're not learning creationism, so I guess it's all good! No need to care about the fact that millions of student don't graduate or aren't close to prepare for college or employment. As long as they don't learn creationism, I guess the schools have done their job.

 

[mpok1519]

I said "virtually everyone" knows that our schools are doing badly, not everyone.

Source? What article can you provide that will say "Virtually everyone thinks our schools are doing a miserable job"?

But hey, they're not learning creationism, so I guess it's all good!

No. Theres a heck of alot more that needs to be done.

 

[AlexBP]

solely by what stance various authorities might take on creationism? No, not solely.

You've brought up creationism several times. You haven't mentioned anything about reading, writing, or math scores; you haven't mentioned history, civics, or even anything in science other than creationism. You haven't mentioned graduation rates or college attendance or any other measure of school success. I would say we should judge different approaches to schooling by these measures, and if we find that locally controlled schools measure up better, then we should promote local control of schools. Would you not agree?

Facts and information aren't based upon what people believe, however. They're based on what we can observe and measure.

If you read the Weekly Standard article that I linked to, you'll see that the current left-wing authorities in public education do not want to teach our kids facts and information or anything that can be observed or measured. They are working to prevent that.

 

[Ernst Junger]

public schools are necessary um eine perfekte Gesellschaft zu bilden.


whoops

 

[mpok1519]

You've brought up creationism several times. You haven't mentioned anything about reading, writing, or math scores; you haven't mentioned history, civics, or even anything in science other than creationism. You haven't mentioned graduation rates or college attendance or any other measure of school success. I would say we should judge different approaches to schooling by these measures, and if we find that locally controlled schools measure up better, then we should promote local control of schools. Would you not agree?

Because theres not a huge fight to keep math, writing, reading, etc, out, but there is a huge fight to keep evolution out, which is a huge part of natural biology. Theres not a huge fight to keep math, writing, reading, etc in, but there is a huge fight to put creationism in.

If you read the Weekly Standard article that I linked to, you'll see that the current left-wing authorities in public education do not want to teach our kids facts and information or anything that can be observed or measured. They are working to prevent that.

But the article doesn't prove any of those claims with evidence or support.