Santa Clause

[MyLeaderisJesus]

Well I think that Santaclause is just not what Christmas is about.. as long as you understand the true meaning of Christmas which is not Just the gifts and Santaclause... it's the celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ, althought many kids don't understand and they care more for the gifts than the actual true meaning.

 

[LewisWildermuth]

I agree, one should not lie about Christmas... So stop telling your kids that it has anything to do with Christ!

Come on... It's an adopted Germanic mid-winter fest with the legend of a saint and an old winter god kinda mingled in it.

Jesus was not born December 25th, that is the lie of Christmas.

 

[No gods]

Kids understand pretend, but I think it's cruel to convince a trusting child that Santa is real. What a sick hoax. Santa will be everywhere soon, so you can't deny Santa's existance. Of curse he exists, he's on TV... but he's not "real." St. Nick is dead, Jesus is alive.

I fixed it for you:

Kids understand pretend, but I think it's cruel to convince a trusting child that Jesus is real. What a sick hoax. Jesus will be everywhere soon, so you can't deny Jesus' existance. Of course he exists, he's in a book... but he's not "real."

 

[Tami]

I agree, one should not lie about Christmas... So stop telling your kids that it has anything to do with Christ!

Come on... It's an adopted Germanic mid-winter fest with the legend of a saint and an old winter god kinda mingled in it.

Jesus was not born December 25th, that is the lie of Christmas.

So what when Jesus was born? There's a lot of speculation on what time of year Jesus was actually born. Big deal that we don't have an exact date. We can pick any day out of the year that we want to to celebrate Christ's birth. If we want to take some kind of pagan holiday and turn it into a celebration of Christ then so be it. We're using it to glorify God, not to celebrate some pagan holiday.

Tami

 

[Mylinkay Asdara]

If we want to take some kind of pagan holiday and turn it into a celebration of Christ then so be it. We're using it to glorify God, not to celebrate some pagan holiday.

So... I can just steal any holiday I like from your faith and make it 'ours' without even a by your leave? Seems just a tad like religious piracy..

 

[Tami]

So... I can just steal any holiday I like from your faith and make it 'ours' without even a by your leave? Seems just a tad like religious piracy..

Yes, you can do that if you wish. It doesn't change the reasons why we celebrate our holidays. It won't stop us from celebrating our holidays however we wish.

Tami

 

[Mylinkay Asdara]

Nor has it stopped us, but that seems to be a problem for some.

 

[foolsparade]

So what when Jesus was born? There's a lot of speculation on what time of year Jesus was actually born. Big deal that we don't have an exact date. We can pick any day out of the year that we want to to celebrate Christ's birth. If we want to take some kind of pagan holiday and turn it into a celebration of Christ then so be it. We're using it to glorify God, not to celebrate some pagan holiday.
Tami

Thats nice, so much for truth. You people can just "pretend" on any day you like. Suddenly the idea of santa to bring excitment and smiles to young children doesn't seem like a bad idea.

The Santa Claus myth is a cruel falsehood – a fanciful, destructive lie perpetuated by parents who tell their children not to lie.

Funny, I feel the same way towards telling{demanding} children of Christianity. I laugh when I hear of people that talk like this. You want to make your life so chained down, you will forget how to live and become nothing but a waste of space. Your children will grow perhaps with a little more contempt towards people and to life in general. All of this based on a hallucination Paul had.

 

[LewisWildermuth]

So what when Jesus was born? There's a lot of speculation on what time of year Jesus was actually born. Big deal that we don't have an exact date. We can pick any day out of the year that we want to to celebrate Christ's birth. If we want to take some kind of pagan holiday and turn it into a celebration of Christ then so be it. We're using it to glorify God, not to celebrate some pagan holiday.

Tami

Then if it is okay to pretend that it is Jesus's birthday then it is okay to pretend that there is a fat guy running around handing out presents. Problem solved.

Now if only we could stop the "real reason for the season" messages since it is only pretend.

Don't get me wrong, I am a Christian, but I am just annoyed by hearing so many other Christians lying or making a big deal over a make-believe holliday that is just a borrowed festival. It is okay if it makes you feel better to pretend that it is the birthday of Jesus, but don't ram it down people throughts if they don't want to join you in your game of pretend and play their own.

 

[Tami]

Then if it is okay to pretend that it is Jesus's birthday then it is okay to pretend that there is a fat guy running around handing out presents. Problem solved.

Now if only we could stop the "real reason for the season" messages since it is only pretend.

Don't get me wrong, I am a Christian, but I am just annoyed by hearing so many other Christians lying or making a big deal over a make-believe holliday that is just a borrowed festival. It is okay if it makes you feel better to pretend that it is the birthday of Jesus, but don't ram it down people throughts if they don't want to join you in your game of pretend and play their own.

Excuse me, but I'm not pretending anything. Jesus really did have a birthday. We just don't know exactly when it happened. So what which day Christians decided to celebrate it on? I don't really care if it was originally a day that some other religion celebrated whatever they were celebrating about their religion. They don't own December 25. If that's the date we want to celebrate Jesus' birth because we don't know for sure when exactly he was born anyway then so what? Celebrating Christmas on December 25 has nothing to do with lying or pretending. I don't claim that Jesus was actually born that day.

Tami

 

[Aslan]

Jesus didn't come hear to just be born, he came to die and rise again-that is the real holiday.

 

[LewisWildermuth]

Excuse me, but I'm not pretending anything. Jesus really did have a birthday. We just don't know exactly when it happened. So what which day Christians decided to celebrate it on? I don't really care if it was originally a day that some other religion celebrated whatever they were celebrating about their religion. They don't own December 25. If that's the date we want to celebrate Jesus' birth because we don't know for sure when exactly he was born anyway then so what? Celebrating Christmas on December 25 has nothing to do with lying or pretending. I don't claim that Jesus was actually born that day.

Tami

If you came up to me and said "I want to celibrate your birthday next tuesday." and my birthday was not next tuesday, whe would be pretending it was my birthday even though I have a real birthday. It is still pretend either way.

I have no problem for anyone who wished to do so, if it makes you happy be my guest.

However I do have a problem with those who would belittle others for either not celebrating at all or people who choose to celebrate differently (like using the Santa myth or not). If you want to pretend that there is a giant purple moose giving out presents that day be my guest.

But if people choose to get all "hollier than thou" on me or anyone else, they should be prepared.

 

[jtroth]

After readign all these post and prayign I have come to the conclusion that I will not be doing the Santa bit. I will have fun in other ways with my kids.

 

[Tami]

If you came up to me and said "I want to celibrate your birthday next tuesday." and my birthday was not next tuesday, whe would be pretending it was my birthday even though I have a real birthday. It is still pretend either way.

I have no problem for anyone who wished to do so, if it makes you happy be my guest.

However I do have a problem with those who would belittle others for either not celebrating at all or people who choose to celebrate differently (like using the Santa myth or not). If you want to pretend that there is a giant purple moose giving out presents that day be my guest.

But if people choose to get all "hollier than thou" on me or anyone else, they should be prepared.

You're missing the entire point. There is nothing wrong with picking a date out of the year to celebrate Christ's birth since we don't know for sure what exact date He was actually born on. Telling a kid that Santa is going to bring him presents is a lie. It's not pretend. It's only pretending if the kid actually knows the story isn't true. There's a big difference between lying and pretending. That said, I am not pretending that Jesus was born on December 25 just because that's the date that I celebrate His birth on. We celebrate it on that day because we don't really know when he was born so why not just pick a day out of the year? Since December 25 (or any other date for that matter) is not owned by anyone then why not celebrate it on that day? You used your birthday as an example of pretending it's your birthday when it's really not. I see no comparison since you obviously know when your birthday is and can tell us. You were born fairly recently compared to when Christ was born. It's not like there is someone here from that time who can tell us when He was actually born like there is in your case.

Tami

 

[Mylinkay Asdara]

Basically it doesn't matter when he was born anyway. We'll never know. (This is, of course, assuming he existed in the first place which - while you take it as a given - is not really proven or disproven by anything beyond a book written by his supposed followers)

Meanwhile - the issue is that you are being a bit harsh. You can make things up. You can decide what's what. You can choose to do so and so. But people who aren't doing things your way - well they're just plain liars and wrong. This is the message you are conveying wether you mean to or not.

 

[Tami]

Basically it doesn't matter when he was born anyway. We'll never know. (This is, of course, assuming he existed in the first place which - while you take it as a given - is not really proven or disproven by anything beyond a book written by his supposed followers)

Meanwhile - the issue is that you are being a bit harsh. You can make things up. You can decide what's what. You can choose to do so and so. But people who aren't doing things your way - well they're just plain liars and wrong. This is the message you are conveying wether you mean to or not.

The difference is that I really believe that there was and is a Jesus. People who tell their kids about Santa Claus know for a fact that he really does not exist. They lie. A lie is something that you say knowing that it's not true. When I tell my kids about Jesus, I'm telling them something that I believe to be true. You cannot say the same for people who tell their kids that there is a Santa Claus who brings them presents.

Tami

 

[LewisWildermuth]

You're missing the entire point. There is nothing wrong with picking a date out of the year to celebrate Christ's birth since we don't know for sure what exact date He was actually born on.

I never said there was anything wrong with that.

Telling a kid that Santa is going to bring him presents is a lie. It's not pretend. It's only pretending if the kid actually knows the story isn't true. There's a big difference between lying and pretending.

Then if I ask your kids what day is Jesus's birthday they will not say Dec 25th they will say that they don't know. Your kids would be the exeption if this is true.

And if you feel that telling kids about Santa and the Tooth Fairy are bad things then don't do it, but there is no Biblical support for you getting mad at those who do, so leave them alone.

That said, I am not pretending that Jesus was born on December 25 just because that's the date that I celebrate His birth on. We celebrate it on that day because we don't really know when he was born so why not just pick a day out of the year? Since December 25 (or any other date for that matter) is not owned by anyone then why not celebrate it on that day?

Again, I never said that you couldn't, infact I said just the opposite, go ahead.

You used your birthday as an example of pretending it's your birthday when it's really not. I see no comparison since you obviously know when your birthday is and can tell us. You were born fairly recently compared to when Christ was born. It's not like there is someone here from that time who can tell us when He was actually born like there is in your case.

Tami

Then since we can never know when, we are pretending, no matter the day we pick.

 

[Tami]

Then if I ask your kids what day is Jesus's birthday they will not say Dec 25th they will say that they don't know. Your kids would be the exeption if this is true.

And if you feel that telling kids about Santa and the Tooth Fairy are bad things then don't do it, but there is no Biblical support for you getting mad at those who do, so leave them alone.

My children are ages 6, 2, and 1. I just asked my 6 year old when Jesus' birthday is. He said he didn't know. I explained to him that Christmas is the day that we celebrate Jesus' birthday and that Christmas is on December 25 but that may not actually be His birthday because we don't know for sure when He was born but that doesn't matter. All that matters is that He was born so it doesn't really matter what day we celebrate His birthday on since we don't know when it really was anyway. My two younger ones are too young to comprehend that right now so I'll wait until later to explain all that to them. You said that I have no Biblical support for getting mad at people who tell their kids about Santa and the tooth fairy and such. First of all, I'm not mad at them. I just believe that they are lying and think they should stop because lying is a sin. So I do have Biblical support against telling kids that Santa is real and that he brings presents to good little girls and boys.

"Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another." Leviticus 19:11 (KJV) (emphasis mine)

Tami

 

[tcampen]

Tami,

that must make it exceedingly difficult to throw a surprise party.

 

[Pooty]

You're forgetting the MOTIVE for which December 25 was picked. And that reason is because that date corresponded with a pagan holiday. It was placed there to oppress! Same as easter. I think it's funny that that's not taught. Children should know that their wonderful christian holidays are really in existence because power hungry crazed religious leaders put them there.

How would YOU like it if muslims came here, took over, and then replaced your holidays with their holidays AND made yours illegal. Would you? I'm guessing... no. This really has nothing to do with what is the 'right' belief. It has to do with people disagreeing with others, and not wanting people with different beliefs to even EXIST.