Sant Mat (Vegetarian question)

[For The Love Of God]

This is for anyone who follows the Sant Mat belief system.

On numerous websites it says that a vegetarian diet is required--but why is this?

Certainly you would be compassionate, and not go out and kill an animal, but if it's already dead, how is it compassionate to not eat it? At least you're using it for the betterment of your own soul.

This has been bothering me some, so I thought I'd try and ask.

Not sure if anyone can answer it, though, if anyone follows that philosophy on this forum.

 

[psychedelicist]

I do not understand vegetarianism that much either. W have both eyes in the front of our head, not on the sides, which means that we are carnivores. If a lion can eat a deer for food, why can't I eat a cow for food?

 

[Proud Hindu]

I personally have no problem with eating meat, even as a Hindu, I do eat meat.

But... I think its absolutely horrifying the conditions that animals are kept in before they are eaten. They are tortured in so many ways... if there is a hell, they are living in it.

 

[ravenwolf]

Well, i dont see anything wrong with the eating of meat, i think its a personal choice, but as Proud Hindu mentioned the way the animals are kept are horrific and supporting it is just as horrific, I say if you must eat meat and are concerned about compassion buy from small farms or take up hunting and give respect to the animal and use all of it. And actually since physiology was brought up Im gonna have to jump into this one too...our physiology is alot more like herbivores than carnivores. there are plenty of other animals that are herbivores with eyes in front of there head, monkeys, lemures, koala bears, pandas, and sloths to name a few. we also dont have claws, our "fangs" are not anything compared to carnivores, theye are too small to make a kill of anything, we chew in a grinding motion rather than a chomping up and down only motion, are stomach acidity is around that of an herbovores, carnivores have much higher acids in there stomachs in order to kill off the bacteria and other harmful things in raw meat, that is why humans must cook it before they eat it, are intestines are desined like that of an herbivore with pocket like sections, where as carnivores have straight tube like intestines, also carnivores can eat all the saturated fat they can without worrying about clogged arteries where as humans do have problems from saturated fat. So yeah, human physiology is not a good argument for meat eating.

 

[For The Love Of God]

I see where you all are coming from. I've considered vegetarianism but I don't feel it's really a necessity for my spirituality. I'd certainly never go out and kill an animal without giving honor to it, and of course I'm compassionate about the terrible conditions they experience. But I think animal rights are vied for enough now that in the future these conditions will decrease, if not dramatically, if the practice doesn't disappear altogether.

I think now-a-days people see that we need to take the best care of the planet as is possible.

I just hope it doesn't take a century for this to happen.

 

[Nienor]

I've considered vegetarianism before, and I would be a vegetarian if I didn't like beef so much.....

 

[ravenwolf]

I just hope it doesn't take a century for this to happen.

....me too.

 

[crossrunner]

I'm a vegetarian. Been for 10 years. Didn't do it at all for religious reasons. Did it for my health. I don't think current slaughter practices are humane at all so I'm glad that even though I didn't give up meat for animal right purposes, that my diet doesn't support such cruel practices.

 

[gaijin178]

I am a vegetarian as well and I did it for spiritual reasons as well as for personal reasons. There are many reasons why I chose to be one and why others might consider it as well. Others have mentioned that the conditions that animals are raised in is horrible. However, another reason not to eat meat is because it is just not healthy. I can get all of the protein that I need from other sources not just meat. And the truth of the matter is, Westerners get too much protein, that is why obiesity is such a huge problem. Here is a link to a christian vegetarian site for another view: http://www.christianveg.com/

 

[Starcrystal]

Ravenwolf,
Well, i dont see anything wrong with the eating of meat, i think its a personal choice, but as Proud Hindu mentioned the way the animals are kept are horrific and supporting it is just as horrific, I say if you must eat meat and are concerned about compassion buy from small farms or take up hunting and give respect to the animal and use all of it. And actually since physiology was brought up Im gonna have to jump into this one too...our physiology is alot more like herbivores than carnivores. there are plenty of other animals that are herbivores with eyes in front of there head, monkeys, lemures, koala bears, pandas, and sloths to name a few. we also dont have claws, our "fangs" are not anything compared to carnivores, theye are too small to make a kill of anything, we chew in a grinding motion rather than a chomping up and down only motion, are stomach acidity is around that of an herbovores, carnivores have much higher acids in there stomachs in order to kill off the bacteria and other harmful things in raw meat, that is why humans must cook it before they eat it, are intestines are desined like that of an herbivore with pocket like sections, where as carnivores have straight tube like intestines, also carnivores can eat all the saturated fat they can without worrying about clogged arteries where as humans do have problems from saturated fat. So yeah, human physiology is not a good argument for meat eating.

Excellent!
I eat meat too, but avoid fatty or "unclean" things like Swine, and most processed foods.
I'm glad you mention the giving thanks when hunting the animals. Natives always did that. And there's nothing better than a nice lean Elk steak. Hardly any fat, no antibiotics or growth hormones like many commercial animals
If we are to eat meat then I think we need to be really careful about our intake. I think people are generally more healthy if they consume larger amounts of veggies...
and as far as the physiological aspects ~ you said it all there Ravenwolf!

 

[psychedelicist]

Hmm, guess you got me there ravenwolf. I didn't know about all that physiological stuff, that was just always my dad's arguement for eating meat, so it kind of became my reason.

I'm thinking of doing the whole meat eating thing the Ted Nugent way, where the only meat I eat is what I kill myself. Which would probably limit all of my meat intake to venison, since deer is the only thing I hunt. Other than that, I'm pretty much leaning towards veganism, I never liked processed foods, like cheese and milk (anyone else think it's weird that we drink milk that was made for cows?), which aren't really as healthy as the dairy industry would like us to believe. Plus most veggies just taste better than all this processed stuff.

 

[ravenwolf]

Excellent!
I eat meat too, but avoid fatty or "unclean" things like Swine, and most processed foods.
I'm glad you mention the giving thanks when hunting the animals. Natives always did that. And there's nothing better than a nice lean Elk steak. Hardly any fat, no antibiotics or growth hormones like many commercial animals
If we are to eat meat then I think we need to be really careful about our intake. I think people are generally more healthy if they consume larger amounts of veggies...
and as far as the physiological aspects ~ you said it all there Ravenwolf!

I agree : ) The thing about the Natives giving thanks for the kill is just one of the things I respect about there way of life, I think they have alot to teach as far as spirituallity and living goes, being thankful and respecting ALL life.
And yes, lots of veggies are good

I'm thinking of doing the whole meat eating thing the Ted Nugent way, where the only meat I eat is what I kill myself. Which would probably limit all of my meat intake to venison, since deer is the only thing I hunt. Other than that, I'm pretty much leaning towards veganism, I never liked processed foods, like cheese and milk (anyone else think it's weird that we drink milk that was made for cows?), which aren't really as healthy as the dairy industry would like us to believe. Plus most veggies just taste better than all this processed stuff.

I think thats cool that you want to hunt your own meat. When I first learned about the way animals are kept and all that i wanted to learn to hunt but after I read about the health benifits and decided that it was better for me than I just went vegan but I think that hunting for your own meat with thankfullness and using everything is very good, it think thats the way peopel should eat meat if they choose to do so. An dyeah I agree with the bit about cows milk, its jsut palinly NOT natural. No species naturally drinks the mammory secretions of another species and on top of that no species feeds off of milk longer than is needed when they are babes(for humans its 2-3 years).

Blessings
~ravenwolf

 

[Born_in_India]

Now I'm 25 and have been a vegetarian all my life. It was not a personal decision but I was born in a family(Brahmin) who have been vegetarians for as long as they remember. But after coming to the US, I've tried to eat meat in order to gain weight and have all those muscles. I could have been a meat eater if not for something programmed in my brain which makes me throw up after eating a little bit of meat, I really feel bad about my condition. I could not overcome that mental block which had formed in me since childhood. BTW TED NUGENT rocks...."Catch Scratch Fever..."....I like rock dude. My vegetarianism has in no way affected my heavy_metal interests...LOL

 

[bmoynihan]

3 points, firstly if we eat meat from a supermarket we might not acually be killing an animal but we are responsible for the killing. When we take it off the shelf then it needs to be replaced, therefore another animal is killed in order to replace it.

Secondly if we are supposed to eat meat why do we need to cook it first? How many of you would still be healthy if you ate raw meet (as other animals do)?

Thirdly why would you eat meet? Its bad for you and there are just as good alternatlves which don't cause suffering. Surely eating meat is a selfish act.

 

[universalsaint]

For those following a spiritual path, which is very different to a religious path, eating meat is not ideal and here is why. If the truth be told Jesus was in fact a vegetarian, dont beleive me? then search for the truth on the matter. The bible consists of only a few books from the new testament, but everyone knows that there are more, like the Essene Gospel for instance. This book reveals the true life of Jesus as an Essene and how they really lived. The life of Jesus in the bible just seems to end and then start again, dont you think that is strange. The fact is that he left the region and travelled to India, where if you followed the writings of the times, you would find several villages in the east where the record keepers have acknowledged that Jesus had lived there amoung them and practiced meditation. After some time of mastering the meditations, Jesus then journeyed back to the middle eastern region where the bible picks up on his life again and this time as a son of God, sharing the knowledge and power he learned and gained from the enlightened souls of the east.

Jesus did not eat meat for some very good reasons, despite what most of us have been misguided to beleive. The first rule of God is "Thy shall not kill". Realised that God is all love and if you love how can you kill, as the very act of killing is completely the opposit to love. "He that loveth not Knowth not God; for God is Love" 1 John 4:8. Think about it!
Secondly as man is in the image likeness of God, our consciousness is far superior to that of an animal, as we are able to understand and perceive God first hand. So we are not animals which live by instinct alone and Kill to survive. You as a human being should be directing your all attention to only one thing and that is God. By directing your consciousness upward toward God, you begin to realise God in many ways through your perceptions and experiences. But when you eat meat, you are assimilating the consciousness of an animal, which is lower than even yourself, and you begin to imbimbe animal characteristic, such as agression and viciousness.

Jesus practiced a very specific method of meditation, which many other enlightened people have practiced known as Surat Shabd. there are several names for this but basically it is the meditation of the inner light and sound. Jesus said "when thine eye be single thy whole body becomes filled with light", what do you suppose he meant? I shall explain, as I doubt any minister would know the true meaning. Your body has and energy field surrounding it called the Aura, it can be photgraphed with a Kirlian Camera, look it up if you dont beleive me! This energy field is one of servral complex components. Part of this energy field are 7 major energy centers called Chakras. Each chakra represents a part of you and God. The one Chakra center which lies between your eyes at the root of your nose is called your "third eye". This "eye" is the one that when you die stays open for you to perceive the worlds beyond the physical universe. If you focus your attention on that Chakra center or Eye center, you whole body becomes filled with the light of God and you are able to rise out of your body consciousness, while you are awake. This eye centre only sees the truth in everything and the light of truth is a manifestation of God within, which bathes you in it while you are connected to it.

The other part ot this meditation is the "Word" or the "voice of God" as Jesus called it. "In the beginning was the WORD and the WORD was with God". What is a word but a sound vibration. The Suryat Shabd meditation, Shabd means sound, that Jesus used to focus his attention on, is the sound current that can be heard when you meditate in silence. "Be still and Know that I Am God" means to meditate in silence and focus on you attention within. Luke 17:20-21 says "...for behold the kingdom of God is within you".

So Now back to the vegetarian diet, you cannot reach these levels of consciousness when you eat meat, as God consciousness and animal consciousness are in opposite directions to where we are, ie in the middle, its kinda like a tug-o-war. Meat is counter productive to living a true experience in God and that is why followers of Sant Mat and other ways of live do not eat meat or take mind altering substances, as these things rob you of the most precious gift, experiencing true moments in God consciousness.
I hope this answers some of your curiosity toward the vegetarian diet. Want to learn more of the truth, message me

 

[Robban]

For those following a spiritual path, which is very different to a religious path, eating meat is not ideal and here is why. If the truth be told Jesus was in fact a vegetarian, dont beleive me? then search for the truth on the matter. The bible consists of only a few books from the new testament, but everyone knows that there are more, like the Essene Gospel for instance. This book reveals the true life of Jesus as an Essene and how they really lived. The life of Jesus in the bible just seems to end and then start again, dont you think that is strange. The fact is that he left the region and travelled to India, where if you followed the writings of the times, you would find several villages in the east where the record keepers have acknowledged that Jesus had lived there amoung them and practiced meditation. After some time of mastering the meditations, Jesus then journeyed back to the middle eastern region where the bible picks up on his life again and this time as a son of God, sharing the knowledge and power he learned and gained from the enlightened souls of the east.

Jesus did not eat meat for some very good reasons, despite what most of us have been misguided to beleive. The first rule of God is "Thy shall not kill". Realised that God is all love and if you love how can you kill, as the very act of killing is completely the opposit to love. "He that loveth not Knowth not God; for God is Love" 1 John 4:8. Think about it!
Secondly as man is in the image likeness of God, our consciousness is far superior to that of an animal, as we are able to understand and perceive God first hand. So we are not animals which live by instinct alone and Kill to survive. You as a human being should be directing your all attention to only one thing and that is God. By directing your consciousness upward toward God, you begin to realise God in many ways through your perceptions and experiences. But when you eat meat, you are assimilating the consciousness of an animal, which is lower than even yourself, and you begin to imbimbe animal characteristic, such as agression and viciousness.

Jesus practiced a very specific method of meditation, which many other enlightened people have practiced known as Surat Shabd. there are several names for this but basically it is the meditation of the inner light and sound. Jesus said "when thine eye be single thy whole body becomes filled with light", what do you suppose he meant? I shall explain, as I doubt any minister would know the true meaning. Your body has and energy field surrounding it called the Aura, it can be photgraphed with a Kirlian Camera, look it up if you dont beleive me! This energy field is one of servral complex components. Part of this energy field are 7 major energy centers called Chakras. Each chakra represents a part of you and God. The one Chakra center which lies between your eyes at the root of your nose is called your "third eye". This "eye" is the one that when you die stays open for you to perceive the worlds beyond the physical universe. If you focus your attention on that Chakra center or Eye center, you whole body becomes filled with the light of God and you are able to rise out of your body consciousness, while you are awake. This eye centre only sees the truth in everything and the light of truth is a manifestation of God within, which bathes you in it while you are connected to it.

The other part ot this meditation is the "Word" or the "voice of God" as Jesus called it. "In the beginning was the WORD and the WORD was with God". What is a word but a sound vibration. The Suryat Shabd meditation, Shabd means sound, that Jesus used to focus his attention on, is the sound current that can be heard when you meditate in silence. "Be still and Know that I Am God" means to meditate in silence and focus on you attention within. Luke 17:20-21 says "...for behold the kingdom of God is within you".

So Now back to the vegetarian diet, you cannot reach these levels of consciousness when you eat meat, as God consciousness and animal consciousness are in opposite directions to where we are, ie in the middle, its kinda like a tug-o-war. Meat is counter productive to living a true experience in God and that is why followers of Sant Mat and other ways of live do not eat meat or take mind altering substances, as these things rob you of the most precious gift, experiencing true moments in God consciousness.
I hope this answers some of your curiosity toward the vegetarian diet. Want to learn more of the truth, message me

Taken from an answer by Rabbi Aron Moss, just so that he is mentioned.
"You may be surprised to learn that nowhere in the Ten Commandments or the entire Bible does it say "You shall not kill".Understanding this is vital to a true appreciation of Biblical morality."
He goes on to say that, "The original Hebrew is "Lo tirtzach", which means "Do not murder". The Hebrew word for killing is "hariga", a completely different verb. There is a world of significance in this choice of words."
"Murder is taking of innocent life, which is always forbidden. Killing is the taking of any life, which is sometimes permitted or even obligatory."

 

[universalsaint]

Thank you for those facts Rabben. Just to elaborate further on my point though, all lives of animals are innocent. They do not even take another life. Taking a life in self defence is very different to the deliberate slaughter of innocent creatures just for the whimsical satisfaction for the taste for blood of the innocent.
I thought Id share the thoughts of Rabbi Abraham Isaac Hakohen Kook, the first cheif Rabbi of modern Isreal, who considered vegetarianism to be the ideal, stating that in the Messianic Age, as prophesied by Isaiah, we would all be vegetarian again and only sacrifices offered will be the mincha sacrifice, which offers vegetables.
From the bible and Tora, susequent biblical allowances were made to accomodate mans shortcomings but Gods original expectations were clear in the begining " And God said, behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of the Earth and every tree, in which the fruit of a tree yeilding seed; to you it shall be for meat and to every beast of the earth and every fowl in the air and for everything that creapeth upon the Earth, wherein there is life. I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so." Genisis 1:29. Notice that twice it is mentioned that plants are to be our meat.

Here are some other biblical references to staying away from meat. Proverbs 23:20 " Be not among the wine bibbers and riotous eaters of flesh"

" It is neither good neither to eat flesh, nor to dink wine, nor anything wherby thy brother stumbleth or is offered, or is made weak" St Paul's Epistle to the Romans 14:21

In conjuction with my previous blog on the subject, there is a lot of thought provoking substance to contemplating a vegetarian diet. search for the truth and it will always find you!

 

[universalsaint]

My apologies Robban for mispelling your name

 

[Arthra]

Baha'is do not require a vegetarian diet.. but it is believed to be far cheaper and more ecological to feed large populations with vegetables

The Guardian Shoghi Effendi:

In regard to the question as to whether people ought to kill animals for food or not, there is no explicit statement in the Bahá'í Sacred Scriptures (as far as I know) in favour or against it. It is certain, however, that if man can live on a purely vegetarian diet and thus avoid killing animals, it would be much preferable. This is, however, a very controversial question and the Bahá'ís are free to express their views on it.

(Compilations, The Compilation of Compilations vol. I, p. 476)

'Abdu'l-Bahá has indicated that in the future human beings will be vegetarians, but abstention from eating meat is not a law of this Dispensation. The laws of God are attuned to the needs and possibilities of each age.

(The Universal House of Justice, 1998 Dec 16, Traditional practices in Africa)

When I was conversing with Jain teachers they made the point that the way the animal died could release karmic particles that are absorbed and so they totally abstain from meat eating as a practise of Ahimsa..

If you consider how animals are killed in slaughter houses to produce meat it is not very salutory and can be cruel.. moreover it takes a lot of land to raise cattle and so on for this purpose..

Years ago I used to visit a white Brahma bull just to see his eyes.. He had the most beautiful eyes..

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Secondly if we are supposed to eat meat why do we need to cook it first? How many of you would still be healthy if you ate raw meet (as other animals do)?

Our ancestors suffered from a genetic defect that basically robbed them of a specific jaw muscle that you'll find in the other great apes. The downside to that was that chewing raw meat became much more difficult. The upside was that the skull was no longer required to accomodate that muscle, thus allowing more potential space for our brains.

However, it's not as if there aren't any people who eat raw meat - some even exclusively so. The Inuit of Greenland have basically persisted on a raw-meat-only diet for thousands of years - in fact, they would have died if they cooked it, as they'd have destroyed some vital vitamins in the process.

I consider industrialized farming to be an abomination, but I see nothing wrong with killing for food, if it is done with respect and thankfulness towards the being that has given its life to nourish you.