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sanctification.. process or one time event.

MrPolo

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Neither of these passages support what you say. Everyone in heaven will be holy and blameless when we are "before him" as Eph 1:4 says. This is a reference of standing before God face to face (1 Cor 13:12) in Paul's theology. He contrasts the perfection of THEN vs. NOW.

Unfortunately, perhaps none of us is in the identical state of holiness that he/she will have in heaven. I am sure you can, as can we, come up with Scriptures that demonstrate that Christians still commit sin. They are not perfect as they will be in heaven where they will never sin.
 
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MrPolo

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Paul was talkiing about walking in ressurection power.He also said we are free from sin 3 times in Romans 6.Something,or someone is free,is he not?
Free from sin does not mean you are perfect. Freed from sin is what mankind became when Christ died and rose. It means we can get to heaven. See previous post, and if necessary, we can go over examples in Scripture of true Christians sinning.

As to your stating that Paul to the Philippians was "talking about walking in resurrection power" I don't know what that sentence means. Can you clarify?
 
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ConqueredbyLove

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Well, God's Word tells me I am already seated in the Heavenlies with Christ Jesus...When I see the word "seated" I know it means the work has been done and I can sit down and rest.

It has already been done....past tense...God says it, I believe it....and this happened when I was "dead in trespasses and sins"...only by God's grace...

I am already saved, I am already sanctified...

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:


If you want to go ahead and keep working for your salvation and sanctification....go right ahead...

I will just keep resting


 
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ConqueredbyLove

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When a couple gets Married does it stop after the vows are does it just begin?

When we come to Christ that initial Justification is like our weddings vows but it does not stop there, the journey has just begun.

I agree. He desires for our relationship with Him to deepen and deepen and to become more and more precious and personal...and for our hearts to be set aflame with love for Him the more we come to know and experience Him.
 
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boswd

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I agree. He desires for our relationship with Him to deepen and deepen and to become more and more precious and personal...and for our hearts to be set aflame with love for Him the more we come to know and experience Him.

and that is Santification
 
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MrPolo

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If you want to go ahead and keep working for your salvation and sanctification....go right ahead...

Believing in the process of sanctification has nothing to do with "working" for "salvation." I think perhaps you have the terms justification and sanctification confused?
 
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Frogster

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I dont understand why you think they are for the future? Eph 1# says he has blessed us in the heavenly places,present tense also.

Look at verse 7,it is present tense.

7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,

So why not verse 4?

Unless you dont think we have been redeemed?

Same as Col 1:22.I dont see why that is not for now?

Sure,as per both verses,in the future there will be the redemption of our physicial bodies.Yet Romans 6 says 3 times we are free from sin.

I harken back to Hebrews 10;10,by his sacrifice,we havs been made holy.Not like the old cov,where the priests had to repeatedly offer.
 
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Frogster

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Paul said he wanted to know Him,and the power of His resurrection.Phil 3:10,it was a moral ressurection.


Like here..

Rom 6:5-6 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin

And here..

Colossians 3:1 If then you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

To me the scriptures teach that if we were crucified with Him,we are to walk raised with him,and as he walked in resurrection power,that is for us too,as per Rom 6:9,10,11.That is how we are freed from sin,as per the 3 times mentioned in chapter 6 of Romans.
 
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SGM4HIM

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Here's a quote from a Ben Witherington blog about justification I found interesting

"What the cross does is make atonement for sin, and make possible salvation, which has three tenses to it for the Christian

I have been saved= conversion,

I am being saved=sanctification which requires my own active and free participation, and

I shall be saved=final conformity to the image of the Son at the resurrection at which juncture final justification happens"

He also points out that he is saved by grace/ not by his own effort.
 
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ConqueredbyLove

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Believing in the process of sanctification has nothing to do with "working" for "salvation." I think perhaps you have the terms justification and sanctification confused?


No...No confusion here I understand what the term "justification" means and I understand what the term "sanctification" means...
 
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ConqueredbyLove

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and that is Santification

Isn't it wonderful that when Jesus looks at His Bride He says ~ Thou art all fair my beloved, there is no spot in Thee~

He sees me as perfect...I love that! In His eyes I am perfect...I am perfectly sanctified......In HIM...
 
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sunlover1

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I'm seated in the heavenly places with Christ, resting along with you.


When a couple gets Married does it stop after the vows are does it just begin?

When we come to Christ that initial Justification is like our weddings vows but it does not stop there, the journey has just begun.
But you're married, regardless of your actions after the vows.
It's a done deal.
Same with sanctification according to the passages that
have been already posted.

and that is Santification
I think this is where the problem is.
That is not what sanctification means...

I thought that this "expert
" explained it well.

You have asked a question which poses some difficulty. The words "sanctify," "sanctified," and "sanctification," only appear three times in the book of Romans. They are translations of the Greek words #37 and #38 in Strong's Concordance. As you can see from the verses below, being a servant or slave to God and/ or righteousness, results in sanctification.

From the OT, we understand that the Hebrew term translated as "sanctification" is often translated as "hallow" or "hallowed." The basic idea of the word is "to separate for a religious purpose." The priests were sanctified, that is separated from the common people, for their work in the temple. (See Strong's # 06942)

A Hebrew word closely related to sanctification is sometimes translated as "sodomite" or "temple prostitute." Even though we would not usually think of people like this as holy, they were separated from other people for idolatrous religious rites. (See Strong's # 06945)


The passages he posted after his explanation will help to explain it even better.
Take a look, see w;hat you think.


Excellent post, and btw, great thread.
If nothing else we can all learn something because this
is a very controversial subject but when the Scriptures are
more closely examined, we should all be in agreement.
imo..

sunlover
 
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boswd

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Ahhh but what's makes a strong marriage? After your vows you two go to your separate corners don't talk to each other and just coast through life, or come together as one as one and do all the things that make a marriage strong.


When I come home from work I don't just go to my study, eat alone, and then go to bed, Resting assured that "I'm Married".

I come home and greet my wife when she comes in, we make dinner together, we'll talk, we'll plan things out together.

The same goes with Sanctification that is our working towards making our Marriage to Christ strong.

I'm sorry I just don't buy the say the whole sinner's prayer and then you're done. You may have come to Christ but if your just going through the motions how strong is your marriage to Christ?

This is a little bit of a long read but I think John Wesley explains Santification better than anyone I have come across. He perfectly explains how separate Justification and Sanctification are and how they work together.

.Global Ministries - John Wesley, Sermon 43, The Scripture Way of Salvation
 
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CaliforniaJosiah

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Some comments:


1. The level of misunderstanding both amazes and saddens me. And it seems to me the author of this mysterious, uncredited "copy-and-paste" article isn't interested in reality - just perpetuating misunderstanding.


2. I don't think I could live my life not having assurance of the Gospel. To live in such a relativistic world where NOTHING is knowable, NOTHING is sure - I just don't think I could live my life the way the mysterious author of this uncredited article suggests we should. John penned by divien inspiration, "These things are written that you may KNOW....." Know, not "hope - just like you hope someday to win the lottery."


3. As several predicted, this thread spins because terms were never defined.






.
 
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boswd

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Actually that article really isn't too far off the mark. I married into a Pentacostal Fundemental family. And Oh Yeah, it's the Sinner's prayer and that's it.

Seriously they don't considered people saved and only considered people saved unless that have taken the Alter Call or Sinner's prayer.


But you also have to remember that this isn't talkng about not having assurance in God and the Gospels but it agains the whole "I've said the prayer and now I can go live life how I want, because I am saved".

That what the article is about.
God is assurance but man is not.
 
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squint

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Well, there is one thing we do KNOW from our RCC friends. They have no assurances of salvation. The RCC is not providing any form of assurances in these matters, save for those deemed 'saints' after decades or even centuries of long research and forensics...they MIGHT THEN dare to take an outside shot at the prediction that SOMEBODY actually MADE IT....with a very long list of legal disclaimers attached in the fine print.

It is the dangling of hope. The brass ring that NONE have any guarantee of til THEN. The constructions of soothing salve over their shortcomings...to deem them at least temporarily 'worthy' IF they were truly meaningful inside, which they have absolutely NO WAY of determining.

Lottery....lol...sad but true.
 
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boswd

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The RCC aren't the only ones who don't preach OSAS. Most of Christianity does not preach OSAS.
 
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squint

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The RCC aren't the only ones who don't preach OSAS. Most of Christianity does not preach OSAS.

Never said otherwise. Most of old line orthodoxy landed in the same place...a big old solid MAYBE, MAYBE NOT, and this to their own faithful membership. Their structures are now so full of legalese that even their own lawyers have a hard time sorting through the matters...and here's a clue...they never WILL...they are perpetually trapped in the constructions of their own makings. Their own 'internal rules' have multiplied and wrapped around their own systems not much different than our civil governments. Eventually those things result in deterioration, stagnancy and eventually, well, I'll pass on that view.
 
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