same sex marriages

[Ave Maria]

Holly, you aren't a member of a pentecostal church and as such you aren't suppose to debate here. As far as the OP goes, I agree with SVT4Him, why are we surprised that even a member of God's church would try and justify his sin? We all do to some extent. The difference as I see it is that most of us do not and try to insist that God approves of our sins.

Um, this is in Christian Philosophy and Ethics so yes I am allowed to debate here.

 

[kdet]

Um, this is in Christian Philosophy and Ethics so yes I am allowed to debate here.

Yes, you can debate here, Holly, I was referring to the original thread which was posted in the Pentecostal forum.

 

[Adammi]

Yes, you can debate here, Holly, I was referring to the original thread which was posted in the Pentecostal forum.

I would advise you not to debate this.
You can debate and debate and debate with someone who is not a Christian, but unless you show Jesus you'll never win. Just my advice.

 

[thirsty]

That makes no sense. If it were true then God didn't mean for that sterile couple to be together either. Procreation is not the prime reason for marriage. A common bond called love is.

Show me scripture that supports ssm and homosexulaity.

 

[thirsty]

hi. so i went and did a search on Jesus.com and this web page comes up about how there was this law passed, that makes same sex marriages legal, and there's this pastor, who is in a same sex marriage, giving God all the glory for this descision. Saying that God will consider this thing. So please tell me have i lost the plot somewhere or do i just not understand the bible that well, but i am sure, that is God is not a God of compromise and that He created us to go forth and multiply. The kingdom of God is about mulitplication, so how can two people of the same sex go forth and multiply any thing after their own kind. My question is how can one follow that can not multply itself? Im in the kingdom of multiplication after God's kind in order for the kingdom to grow, if their is no multiplication surely there will be death along the way. like a family, if there is no children born into the family espcecially son's how does the name of the genration carry on, it will die out, won't it? I know what the word God say about same sex relationships, it is the final rebellion agianst God, that the enemy will try and pull people into.
God loves these people, i do know that, Jesus even died for them too, it's just the un-natural process of life they have chosen that is against the whole grain of what God is.

Pastors who have exchanged the truth for lies will receive what is due to them unless they repent. Homosexuality and ssm marraige is a sin in the eyes of God and many will be decieved.

 

[Ave Maria]

Just as long as that love is love for God and not love for one's own sexual desires.

I think the Bible's definition of love will suffice:

(Contemporary English Version) 1 Corinthians 13:4-8


4Love is kind and patient,

never jealous, boastful,

proud, or 5rude.

Love isn't selfish

or quick tempered.

It doesn't keep a record

of wrongs that others do.

6Love rejoices in the truth,

but not in evil.

7Love is always supportive,

loyal, hopeful,

and trusting.

8Love never fails!

Everyone who prophesies

will stop,

and unknown languages

will no longer

be spoken.

All that we know will be forgotten.

 

[Ave Maria]

Yes, you can debate here, Holly, I was referring to the original thread which was posted in the Pentecostal forum.

Oh I am sorry kdet. I didn't realize the thread had been moved. Please accept my apology.

 

[Sam Gamgee]

I'm a homosexual and plan on getting married soon to my beloved.
I'm also a Christian.

So, my views probably are exactly opposite of those on this board.

While I respect the sacrament of religious marriage, I am fighting hard for the right for a civil marriage.

 

[BarbB]

While couples in the Bible often married for love, their lives were not considered complete until they had children. Witness Sarah, Rachel, Hannah, etc.

 

[Ave Maria]

Show me scripture that supports ssm and homosexulaity.

I don't need to. Unless the Bible explicitly condemns consexual same-sex relationships then why should I need to show scripture that supports homosexuality? We don't have scripture that supports pets going to Heaven but yet many people believe that pets do go to Heaven.

See here:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibl.htm

As for ssm, I don't even know what you're talking about.

 

[Ave Maria]

While couples in the Bible often married for love, their lives were not considered complete until they had children. Witness Sarah, Rachel, Hannah, etc.

But there are plenty of couples who do not have children and who are perfectly happy. Some couples would be unhappy if they had children.

 

[Letalis]

But there are plenty of couples who do not have children and who are perfectly happy. Some couples would be unhappy if they had children.

I don't really know if that's true. Family based lives have been part of history for all time. Yet only now do we see problems with divorce, family lives, etc. Clearly history proves your assessment untrue.

 

[Ave Maria]

I don't really know if that's true. Family based lives have been part of history for all time. Yet only now do we see problems with divorce, family lives, etc. Clearly history proves your assessment untrue.

Of course it's true! There are actually some couples who are committed to a "child free" life. See the following links:

http://www.positivelychildfree.com/
http://www.worldchildfree.org/

 

[porcupine]

Maybe it would be a good thing to allow homosexuals to marry each other. That way when the government finally does the right thing -- i.e., makes it illegal -- we have a list of them to round up. Sorta like gun registration, huh?

 

[Sam Gamgee]

Maybe it would be a good thing to allow homosexuals to marry each other. That way when the government finally does the right thing -- i.e., makes it illegal -- we have a list of them to round up. Sorta like gun registration, huh?

I assume you are joking, but there actually are people who think with this kind of hate. I deal with it frequently... most often from self-proclaimed "Christians", ironically enough.

But, this statement has one large flaw. It assumes that when "rounded up", we'll go in peace (like the Jews did in the holocaust). And that just won't happen. If there is anything that the holocaust has taught us, it is that "Silence = Death"

I'll also say this, progress happens very slowly. But progress happens. And part of that progress will be the eventual legalization of same sex marriage.

Along that very difficult path, I have no doubt that laws will be enacted prohibiting same sex marriage (similar to the Dred Scott case, where black people were determined to be "property" and not "people"). But, those laws will be overturned at some point (just as they did for black people). Maybe not in my lifetime, but it will happen.

You can be a leader or you can be led. I've chosen to be one of those people leading the way for change and equality for gay and lesbians who want to make their relationship legal.

 

[Lee Fey]

Sam, forgive me for wondering, but what about Romans One, or Leviticus 18:22 (or 22:18)? Are you going to say the Bible is wrong when it says that homosexuality is a sin?

And besides, God also commanded us to "Go forth and multiply" as in have children. I personally see that as a command to get married and have kids. Maybe that's just me. I mean, that's if you're going to get married at all. Paul does make it known that it's okay not get married and have sex at all. But if you are going to get married, then it's kind of commanded for you to have kids, which naturally, not recently, but naturally (as in if left to nature) is impossible for homosexuals.

On top of that, why do you think Sodom was destroyed because the entire male population was homosexual?

I'm simply wondering.

 

[Sam Gamgee]

Sam, forgive me for wondering, but what about Romans One, or Leviticus 18:22 (or 22:18)? Are you going to say the Bible is wrong when it says that homosexuality is a sin?

And besides, God also commanded us to "Go forth and multiply" as in have children. I personally see that as a command to get married and have kids. Maybe that's just me. I mean, that's if you're going to get married at all. Paul does make it known that it's okay not get married and have sex at all. But if you are going to get married, then it's kind of commanded for you to have kids, which naturally, not recently, but naturally (as in if left to nature) is impossible for homosexuals.

On top of that, why do you think Sodom was destroyed because the entire male population was homosexual?

I'm simply wondering.

I'm talking about civil marriage (under the eyes of state and federal government), not the religious sacrament of marriage. There is a big difference.

I'm not working towards a day where I can require a church to marry me and my partner. I respect the church views on keeping the sacrament.

Regarding Leviticus, that book also states that wearing clothing from two different fabrics will send you to Hell. So, by wearing this cotton/poly blend shirt, that is grounds for me going to Hell.

The "Go Forth and Multiply" command is being accomplished globally. Our population is increasing at an oustanding rate (specifically in China). Besides, in my opinion, marriage isn't only to have children. Take my Mom, for instance. After my dad passed away, she was 60... well past child-bearing age. She met and fell in love with a wonderful man who was 63. Should they not be allowed to marry because she can't produce a child?

Regarding Sodom, there is no clear evidence that Sodom was destroyed only because of homosexuals. It was destroyed because everyone was sinning like crazy... not just homosexuality.


All that being said, I'm not saying that the Bible is wrong. What I am saying is that we do not live in a country where the Bible can make policy (yet). One day I will be able to marry my beloved, Michael, in a civil marriage ceremony, with a justice of the peace declaring that "under the power vested in my by the state of New Hampshire, I now pronounce you husband and husband".

Nowhere does it say that the Bible is wrong. Nowhere does it say that God has blessed the union. But, I'll be able to file taxes as a married couple. I'll be able to collect Michael's social security benefits after we grow old together. I'll be able to visit him in the emergency room because I'll be his family, under the law.

 

[ChristianMuse]

Of course it's true! There are actually some couples who are committed to a "child free" life. See the following links:

http://www.positivelychildfree.com/
http://www.worldchildfree.org/

Isn't this just a sign of the end times? This does not reflect the Christian Model, unless given that way by God not to marry in the first place, nor is it the OT model. There are many things that are becoming accepted these days. Being child free is a decision that some couples, such as my wife and I, have no power over changing. Is it sin for married couples to want to be child free, no. Is it God's model for married couples, no. This is one of those areas that could become a stumbling block where no stumbling block should be.

 

[ChristianMuse]

I'm talking about civil marriage (under the eyes of state and federal government), not the religious sacrament of marriage. There is a big difference.

One day I will be able to marry my beloved, Michael, in a civil marriage ceremony, with a justice of the peace declaring that "under the power vested in my by the state of New Hampshire, I now pronounce you husband and husband".

But, I'll be able to file taxes as a married couple. I'll be able to collect Michael's social security benefits after we grow old together. I'll be able to visit him in the emergency room because I'll be his family, under the law.

That could be accomplished under a Civil Union and not have to invoke the idea of marriage. Entering into a covenant agreement so two people can share tax benefits, survivors benefits, emergency room access to their partner, the care of children brought into the arrangement at time of entering the covenant, etc, are fine and good and should not be limited to two people who have sex together. It should not matter the gender of the participants nor their sexual inclination. It would be somewhat similar to incorporation of a company.

This was my opinion almost 40 years ago. I do not accept that homosexuality is a valid lifestyle in the bible. The bible speaks against these acts and the people who perform them. In these days homosexuality is becoming accepted and protected by the state. (In Canada, my country, the state and courts have opened the door to same sex marriage.) A state sanctioned union is not a God sanctioned marriage.

I also still stand behind my first post to this thread.

 

[porcupine]

I assume you are joking, but there actually are people who think with this kind of hate. I deal with it frequently... most often from self-proclaimed "Christians", ironically enough.

But, this statement has one large flaw. It assumes that when "rounded up", we'll go in peace (like the Jews did in the holocaust). And that just won't happen. If there is anything that the holocaust has taught us, it is that "Silence = Death"

I'll also say this, progress happens very slowly. But progress happens. And part of that progress will be the eventual legalization of same sex marriage.

Along that very difficult path, I have no doubt that laws will be enacted prohibiting same sex marriage (similar to the Dred Scott case, where black people were determined to be "property" and not "people"). But, those laws will be overturned at some point (just as they did for black people). Maybe not in my lifetime, but it will happen.

You can be a leader or you can be led. I've chosen to be one of those people leading the way for change and equality for gay and lesbians who want to make their relationship legal.

I'm only half joking. I believe, as God does, that homosexual behavior is a crime. I hope some day we will return to sanity and criminalize it again. That is indeed hate. I hate evil as God commands. (Romans 12: 9 -- that's in the NEW Testament) As to going quietly, the whacko neo-Nazis and "patriots said the same thing. They are all in hiding or in prison. Enjoy!