same sex marriages

[ELSHADDAI]

hi. so i went and did a search on Jesus.com and this web page comes up about how there was this law passed, that makes same sex marriages legal, and there's this pastor, who is in a same sex marriage, giving God all the glory for this descision. Saying that God will consider this thing. So please tell me have i lost the plot somewhere or do i just not understand the bible that well, but i am sure, that is God is not a God of compromise and that He created us to go forth and multiply. The kingdom of God is about mulitplication, so how can two people of the same sex go forth and multiply any thing after their own kind. My question is how can one follow that can not multply itself? Im in the kingdom of multiplication after God's kind in order for the kingdom to grow, if their is no multiplication surely there will be death along the way. like a family, if there is no children born into the family espcecially son's how does the name of the genration carry on, it will die out, won't it? I know what the word God say about same sex relationships, it is the final rebellion agianst God, that the enemy will try and pull people into.
God loves these people, i do know that, Jesus even died for them too, it's just the un-natural process of life they have chosen that is against the whole grain of what God is.

 

[sweetrevival]

Hi, elshaddai, the ironic thing is that when homosexuals and lesbians want to have children, they have to go through the same process that a man and a woman do. In that fact alone they let down their whole belief structure that God would allow their unions, because if God was in it He would have worked out how they could procreate without the opposite sex!

Now I know some will say what about test tube babies, but they still require a female egg and male sperm - so nothing homosexual or lesbian there either.

 

[Svt4Him]

You are surprised that the world calls evil good, or that there are people in the church that do? A study of the OT shows what happens with God's people when they exchange the truth of God for a lie.

 

[Heinrich]

In these end times God is calling His servants to stand up for rightousness.
And He will pour out His spirit upon the church like nothing before and will glorify his name, then in the end every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess.
And those evil ones , the children of Satan, shall be thrown into the pit with the Evil one.
There shall be a gnashing of teeth and wailing.

All Glory to God who created something so awsome as the love between a man and women to give us some idea of the true relationship He wants to have with each one of us.

 

[Ave Maria]

Hi, elshaddai, the ironic thing is that when homosexuals and lesbians want to have children, they have to go through the same process that a man and a woman do. In that fact alone they let down their whole belief structure that God would allow their unions, because if God was in it He would have worked out how they could procreate without the opposite sex!

Now I know some will say what about test tube babies, but they still require a female egg and male sperm - so nothing homosexual or lesbian there either.

That makes no sense. If it were true then God didn't mean for that sterile couple to be together either. Procreation is not the prime reason for marriage. A common bond called love is.

 

[sweetrevival]

That makes no sense. If it were true then God didn't mean for that sterile couple to be together either. Procreation is not the prime reason for marriage. A common bond called love is.

Holly - sterility is a medical condition, not the norm for a man or woman's body.

The point of the thread was that a gay minister said that God was somehow supportive of the decision to allow gay marriages. My point was that if God was supportive He would have worked out how they could have children as well.

As to love being a common bond - I love my son and my daughters, yet I would not choose to do anything immoral or against God's will with them. And in God's eyes there is no difference between incest and sodomy. They are both sins.

 

[BearJim]

Just a couple of thoughts on this topic. First, where in this country is there a law making same sex marriage legal? The first post sounds as if it is legal for same sex couples to marry. Here in the United States, same sex couples can only be married in Massachusetts. Admittedly, there are some European countries that accept this, so I'm wondering where this minister was from.
I also agree with Holly that love is the bond in marriage- and sex is given to the couple for their enjoyment. The line of thought that demands children come from the union is demeaning of marriage. I know a couple (male/female) who have been married for over twenty years. They chose not to have children. Are they living in sin because of their decision?
A note to sweetrevival: I'm not sure how you made the jump from love being the common bond for the couple in the marriage to it leading to incest??

 

[Hadron]

I know a couple (male/female) who have been married for over twenty years. They chose not to have children. Are they living in sin because of their decision?

How selfish.

 

[Heinrich]

Why are we fighting about this?
Why does laws of this world count for us.. In many countries christianity is illegal.
If they legalize gay marraiges it is only another sign of the times I'll say.

Gen 2:24 "Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh."

Children is a gift from God... If a man and women decide to not have children, I guess they should sort it out with God.
About the incest or medical things... i believe Isaac (Gen 25:21) had the same problem, and it seems clear from scripture that God wants to bless every couple with children.
I heard many testimony's of women that where scientifically/medically incapable of having children that where healed/repaired in God's grace and had children.

It is wonderfull to see the love between a father and son... and to think God created that to help us understand better the love of the Father(God) for his children.

I stand in amazement when I think of how wonderfull God constructed everything.

 

[Adammi]

That makes no sense. If it were true then God didn't mean for that sterile couple to be together either. Procreation is not the prime reason for marriage. A common bond called love is.

Just as long as that love is love for God and not love for one's own sexual desires.

 

[wgjones3]

How selfish.

How judgemental.

 

[Hadron]

How judgemental.

Wow. I just got judged.

 

[kdet]

That makes no sense. If it were true then God didn't mean for that sterile couple to be together either. Procreation is not the prime reason for marriage. A common bond called love is.

Holly, you aren't a member of a pentecostal church and as such you aren't suppose to debate here. As far as the OP goes, I agree with SVT4Him, why are we surprised that even a member of God's church would try and justify his sin? We all do to some extent. The difference as I see it is that most of us do not and try to insist that God approves of our sins.

 

[akasmom]

Just a couple of thoughts on this topic. First, where in this country is there a law making same sex marriage legal?

San Francisco just legalized it, too, despite a state amendment voted in a couple years ago that stated it could only be man/woman. Courts once again overrode the will of the people, but that's a different thread.

 

[ChristianMuse]

Gen 2:24 "Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh."

This is the fundamental concept of marriage. In later years sexual acts and who you can do them with became more restricted. There is no place within scripture where this basic model was repealed.

If the state wishes to include man with man or woman with woman, that is a state law. If some churches follow that pattern they will be judged according to "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus." Because of this, I am content to leave the final judgment in God's hands.

There are times for learning and times for repentance. The Spirit will bring light to the word of God people have heard or read. What they do with it is up to them. If they choose wrongly, there may be a few more people looking on who are not allowed into the kingdom. It is faith that counts... but it is the faith that rests on God's word for its foundation.

 

[Muko]

Courts once again overrode the will of the people, but that's a different thread.

Tyranny of the courts and tyranny of the majority, I see no difference. My rant on democracy, however, is also for a different thread.

BTW, don't be so against opposing views as to say "well, you're not one of us, so you can just take your ideas and go elsewhere." While in some cases I do agree with the separation of congregations in this section, the topic has no congregational separation itself and there is no reason to exclude Holly from such a debate.

And if I go any further into this my biases will be made perfectly clear, but I would like to say this. When the Church becomes authoritarian and forces their beliefs down other people's throats, they are ignoring the great commission given by our Lord Jesus Christ. "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Notice it didn't say forcing, but even that's not the point I am making, the point I am making is when the Church is judgemental it turns people away from Christ. Our mission is to turn people towards Christ, so in that way this entire debate, as taken on by the religious right, is in complete defiance to the commission.

"Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you–who are you to judge your neighbor?" James 4:11-12

 

[sweetrevival]

.

And if I go any further into this my biases will be made perfectly clear, but I would like to say this. When the Church becomes authoritarian and forces their beliefs down other people's throats, they are ignoring the great commission given by our Lord Jesus Christ. "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Notice it didn't say forcing, but even that's not the point I am making, the point I am making is when the Church is judgemental it turns people away from Christ. Our mission is to turn people towards Christ, so in that way this entire debate, as taken on by the religious right, is in complete defiance to the commission.

This is an observation, not directed at anyone in particular. God gave us His Word and it quite clearly gives an outcome for those who live in particular sins. When a Christian speaks out this outcome they are spoken of as being judged and non-Godly in their approach.

The Christian moderate (should there be any such thing?) wants to woo the world by making agreements in exchange for agreements from the other side. Therefore we see the situation of same-sex couples wanting to be married under God's love, yet not wanting to live under God's law. They want it both.

As Christians - to allow and even accept this is to water the Word and make less than God made it. God did not ask us to go into this world and make friends. He did not tell us to go into this world and compromise. He told us to "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."

Now Muko emphasised the teaching aspect of our work. Yet she should have made sure to include the rest of that verse. .....teaching them to observe all that I commanded you.

All that God commanded us. Not a part - all. And He doesn't ask - He commands. Like a soldier - just do it! So where do we have the right to pick and choose?

 

[~RENEE~]

ROMANS 1

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath showed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

 

[Muko]

Yet she should have made sure to include the rest of that verse. .....teaching them to observe all that I commanded you.

All that God commanded us. Not a part - all. And He doesn't ask - He commands. Like a soldier - just do it! So where do we have the right to pick and choose?

Ahem... two things, one, I included the both full verses (Matthew 28:19-20). Two, please make reference to what sex the site has me listed as, I am in fact male.

Romans 13:8-10
Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. The commandments, “Do not commit adultery,” “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” “Do not covet,” and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Remember that you are to love first and foremost, love is evident, and when a gay person sees that love they will find a spiritual connection with you. When they see the Church saying that they can't visit their loved ones in the hospital because they're "not family," love is not what is portrayed. When they see websites such as G-dHatesF*gs.com, love is not portrayed. Now I don't agree with all of the gay community, I don't agree with gay pride rallies in fact, but I do agree with gays having the same rights as anyone else, the right to marry (or a civil union if you want to take marriage completely away from the government as I think it should), the right to not be fired from their jobs simply because of their sexual preference (there's a bill in Congress right now that may do so, provided the religious right doesn't decide to get holier-than-thou), the right to live at peace with one's neighbor, especially their Christian neighbor, without being hated and vehemently despised (you may say that's not a right, but should a Christian bring up any such objection to not hating their neighbor?)

 

[Ave Maria]

Holly - sterility is a medical condition, not the norm for a man or woman's body.

The point of the thread was that a gay minister said that God was somehow supportive of the decision to allow gay marriages. My point was that if God was supportive He would have worked out how they could have children as well.

As to love being a common bond - I love my son and my daughters, yet I would not choose to do anything immoral or against God's will with them. And in God's eyes there is no difference between incest and sodomy. They are both sins.

Well then I guess I'll just have to agree with the gay minister then.