SALVATION

fhansen · Jun 25, 2024

In the ancient church teachings and those of the ECFs, salvation is a turning away from the world and sin and turning to God-and is inseparable from becoming righteous and living accordingly: doing good, overcoming sin, obeying the commandments, etc. This righteousness comes by virtue of being reconciled and walking with God, under grace, in a union based on and established by faith. If one were to persistently live in obvious, grave sin then they’re not His children.

Do you think this understanding has changed at all today?

HTacianas · Jun 25, 2024

fhansen said:
In the ancient church teachings and those of the ECFs, salvation is a turning away from the world and sin and turning to God-and is inseparable from becoming righteous and living accordingly: doing good, overcoming sin, obeying the commandments, etc. This righteousness comes by virtue of being reconciled and walking with God in a union based on and established by faith. If one were to persistently live in obvious, grave sin then they’re not His children.

Do you think this understanding has changed at all today?

It has changed amongst a lot of people. Especially some of the offshoots of Protestantism.

d taylor · Jun 25, 2024

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In The Bible it has always been belief in Jesus for Eternal Life salvation.

For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”

fhansen · Jun 25, 2024

d taylor said:
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In The Bible it has always been belief in Jesus for Eternal Life salvation.

For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”

Salvation is tied to many things in the bible but first of all to faith in God. Faith is the realization within us of the reconciliation between man and God that Jesus came to accomplish. It's the reversal of the alienation from Him that Adam accomplished. The reason that believing in Jesus is essential is because He is God. Everything He said and did was an expression of the nature and will of God.
"Through Him you believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and glorified Him, and so your faith and hope are in God." 1 Pet 1:21

Faith makes God our God again; we become His people, Jer 31:33. That faith-born reconciled relationship is our salvation-and the authentic basis of righteousness for man. It's the source of grace, life in the Spirit, and as such is part and parcel of our salvation, of the overcoming of the sin that otherwise earns us death.
"I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts."

d taylor · Jun 25, 2024

fhansen said:
Salvation is tied to many things in the bible but first of all to faith in God. Faith is the realization within us of the reconciliation between man and God that Jesus came to accomplish. It's the reversal of the alienation from Him that Adam accomplished. The reason that believing in Jesus is essential is because He is God. Everything He said and did was an expression of the nature and will of God.
"Through Him you believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and glorified Him, and so your faith and hope are in God." 1 Pet 1:21

Faith makes God our God again; we become His people, Jer 31:33. That faith-born reconciled relationship is our salvation-and the authentic basis of righteousness for man. It's the source of grace, life in the Spirit, and as such is part and parcel of our salvation, of the overcoming of the sin that otherwise earns us death.
"I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts."

-

I did not write salvation. I wrote about a specific salvation the "Eternal Life salvation" of people. Which is only received by belief in Jesus (the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth) as Peter states in Acts.

Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, “Rulers of the people and elders of Israel: If we this day are judged for a good deed done to a helpless man, by what means he has been made well, let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole. This is the ‘stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.’ Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

fhansen · Jun 25, 2024

d taylor said:
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I did not write salvation. I wrote about a specific salvation the "Eternal Life salvation" of people. Which is only received by belief in Jesus (the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth) as Peter states in Acts.

Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, “Rulers of the people and elders of Israel: If we this day are judged for a good deed done to a helpless man, by what means he has been made well, let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole. This is the ‘stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.’ Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

Yes, and my point was to explain why the name means something, what the point of faith in Christ is and why it's so critical. And I've not heard of more than one type of salvation in the new testament. Either way, Peter understood well: Jesus, alone, reveals the true face of God and gives us reason and grace to believe in Him. When we see Jesus, we see God. When we know Jesus, we know God. When we believe in, hope in, and love Jesus, we believe in, hope in, and love God. And that fact, by itself, places man in the right place now: justified.

d taylor · Jun 25, 2024

fhansen said:
Yes, and my point was to explain why the name means something, what the point of faith in Christ is and why it's so critical. And I've not heard of more than one type of salvation in the new testament. Either way, Peter understood well: Jesus, alone, reveals the true face of God and gives us reason and grace to believe in Him. When we see Jesus, we see God. When we know Jesus, we know God. When we believe in, hope in, and love Jesus, we believe in, hope in, and love God. And that fact, by itself, places man in the right place now: justified.

_

The name means what it means because God assigned the name of Jesus as the name God would come to earth as. The Messiah or The Christ or The Son of God, which are all the same name Jesus is.

There are several types of salvation in The Bible Eternal Life salvation, physical salvation from discipline from God, physical salvation by God from attacks by opponents of God.

Clare73 · Jun 25, 2024

fhansen said:
In the ancient church teachings and those of the ECFs, salvation is a turning away from the world and sin and turning to God

Salvation is not by believing in God. . .Orthodox Jews believe in God and are not saved.

Salvation is only by faith in and trust on Jesus, the Christ, and his atoning work for the remission of one's sin, which saves from God's judgment/wrath. (Eph 2:8-9, Ro 5:9)

fhansen said:
-and is inseparable from becoming righteous and living accordingly: doing good, overcoming sin, obeying the commandments, etc. This righteousness comes by virtue of being reconciled and walking with God in a union based on and established by faith. If one were to persistently live in obvious, grave sin then they’re not His children.

Do you think this understanding has changed at all today?

Righteousness (justification) follows salvation by faith only, it being imputed (credited) to one by that faith, as it was imputed to Abraham by faith (Ge 15::6, Ro 3:28, 4:1-4).

Righteousness (sanctification) is the result and necessary proof of saving faith (Ro 6:16).

fhansen · Jun 25, 2024

Clare73 said:
Salvation is not by believing in God. . .Orthodox Jews believe in God and are not saved.

Salvation is only by faith in and trust on Jesus, the Christ, and his atoning work for the remission of one's sin, which saves from God's judgment.

And this is one of the errors I was speaking of because it's a partial, stunted version of the gospel. Salvation is belief in God through Jesus Christ-He's the only way to God. And we're not forgiven of our sins simply because we believe we're forgiven of our sins-as if that's some kind of acid test God has provided. We're forgiven because, through the revelation of Christ we've come to know and accept and trust the true God, a God of mercy and forgiveness and love. We've acknowledged Him as our God as opposed to Adam, who denied Him, failing to recognize Him as God, failing to recognize that God had his highest and best interest at heart-and that He, alone, can accomplish this. This is a game-changer for man, placing him back into a state of justice or righteousness because he's made for communion with God and is lost, sick, disordered, dead if apart from Him. That's the whole purpose of our faith, this reconciled and restored relationship that goes beyond mere lip-service. That's why Jesus came.

Clare73 · Jun 25, 2024

fhansen said:
And this is one of the errors I was speaking of because it's a partial, stunted version of the gospel.
Salvation is belief in God through Jesus Christ-

Salvation is only by faith in Jesus Christ.

"Whoever believes in the Son is not condemned. . .whoever does not believe stands condemned already." (Jn 3:18)

fhansen · Jun 25, 2024

Clare73 said:
Salvation is only by faith in Jesus Christ.

Salvation is by faith in the true God. That's who Abraham believed-and believed in. That distinction needs to be maintained: when we believe in Jesus we're believing in God.

Clare73 · Jun 25, 2024

fhansen said:
Salvation is by faith in the true God.

Then Orthodox Jews who deny Christ are saved?

You are in disagreement with Jesus in Jn 3:18: "Whoever does not believe in the Son stands condemned already."

fhansen said:
That's who Abraham believed-and believed in.

Read the text (Ge 5:16) again.

Abraham believed in the promise (Ge 15:5, Seed, Jesus Christ, Gal 3:16) and it was imputed to him as righteousness.

Is #1 back?

fhansen · Jun 25, 2024

Clare73 said:
Then Orthodox Jews who deny Christ are saved?

Why? Did I say they know God?

Clare73 · Jun 25, 2024

fhansen said:
Why? Did I say they know God?

Salvation is by faith (Eph 2:8-9).

Orthodox Jews believe in God.

They are not saved.

Welcome back, #1.

fhansen · Jun 25, 2024

Clare73 said:
Salvation is by faith (Eph 2:8-9).

Orthodox Jews believe in God.

They are not saved.

Welcome back, #1.

It's pretty hard to believe in something one doesn't know. Jesus came to bring us the "knowledge of God". And the more we know Him the more we believe in, hope in and love Him-as long as we truly want to know Him.
"Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." John 17:3

"No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord."

That last quote is from Jeremiah, 31:34, of course, and marks one of the differences between the old and new covenants.

fhansen · Jun 25, 2024

Clare73 said:
Read the text (Ge 5:16) again.

Abraham believed in the promise (Ge 15:5, Seed, Jesus Christ, Gal 3:16) and it was imputed to him as righteousness.

Is #1 back?

I think yer reading a bit into the texts there. God appeared to Abraham; he was specially blest or graced as certain old testament figures were for the benefit of all humankind. He believed and trusted in God- regarding, for one, that he would, indeed, be the father of many nations and, for another, regarding Isaac, willing to sacrifice his only son if that's what God required -and that takes a lot of trust. James had this to say,
"Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?"

Then, echoing Gen 15:5, he put it simply:
"Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God’s friend."

That's what it's all about.

fhansen · Jun 26, 2024

d taylor said:
There are several types of salvation in The Bible Eternal Life salvation, physical salvation from discipline from God, physical salvation by God from attacks by opponents of God.

And Jesus and His disciples taught only one salvation. And that involved, among other things, doing good, overcoming sin, being pure of heart, being humble, obeying the commandments, being holy, loving. Have the following requirements changed under the new covenant?
"He has shown you, O mortal, what is good.
And what does the Lord require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God." Micah 6:8

d taylor · Jun 26, 2024

fhansen said:
And Jesus and His disciples taught only one salvation. And that involved, among other things, doing good, overcoming sin, being pure of heart, being humble, obeying the commandments, being holy, loving. Have the following requirements changed under the new covenant?
"He has shown you, O mortal, what is good.
And what does the Lord require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God." Micah 6:8

-

No just a read through (in The Bible) it can be seen the word salvation and as to what type of salvation is in view. Depends to the context and how the word salvation is being used in that context.

So receiving God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation only requires and can only be received by belief in Jesus.
Where as a physical salvation from death or harm may require repentance or confessing Christ by the born again believer.

Clare73 · Jun 26, 2024

fhansen said:
It's pretty hard to believe in something one doesn't know. Jesus came to bring us the "knowledge of God".

Jesus came to give his life as a ransom (Mt 20:28) in atonement for the sin of those who believe in him (Jn 3:18)).

fhansen said:
And the more we know Him the more we believe in, hope in and love Him-as long as we truly want to know Him.
"Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." John 17:3

And no one can know him apart from faith in Jesus Christ, the only way by which men are saved (Eph 2:8-9).

fhansen · Jun 26, 2024

Clare73 said:
Jesus came to give his life as a ransom (Mt 20:28) in atonement for the sin for those who believe in him (Jn 3:18)).

And no one can know him apart from faith in Jesus Christ, the only way by which men are saved (Eph 2:8-9).

Well, ransom is one theory but in any case the cost of revealing and testifying to the true God was His life, along with paying the debt for our sins. That was God paying the price, dying in human flesh. And people come to believe in Jesus because of what they come to know about Him. Again, everything He said and did, including His sacrificial death, is an expression of the very nature and will of God. That's how we know just who the true God is, and why He's so worthy of our faith, hope, and love.

SALVATION

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