My daughter is a Protestant going with a guy who was rasied as a Catholic. She was dedicated to the Lord at 3 months, accepted Jesus Christ as her Lord and Savior at the age of 6 and was baptized at age 20. She is now 21. He has gone through Catechism and believes he is saved because of doing that. Right now he isn't attending the Catholic Church and to my understanding it has been many years since he has gone on a regular bases. He is now 21. Can anyone explain if going through Catechism is the same as what a Protestant does for salvation.....when they accept Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior? Thank You.
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Salvation
- Thread starter Pattie
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FullyMT
Veni Sancte Spiritus
Going through Catechism doesn't mean you've gained salvation at all...if it did, then I could have just taken my classes, never recieved Communion, never received Confirmation and then say that I knew the Faith I was baptized into and leave it at that!
There are three different states of Salvation that we believe in (to my knowledge):
We have been saved by Christ's death, Resurrection, and Redemption.
We are being saved by striving to walk w/Christ, aided by the Holy Spirit, conferred upon us in Baptism (and Confirmation).
We hope to be saved when Christ comes again.
You can't stop attending the Catholic Church, the Church is a being. One CAN, however, stop attending Mass, the Catholic version of the Protestant "attending church". Not going to Mass every Sunday and also on Holy Day's of Obligation can be a serious (mortal) sin if it is known that it is. It would be my presumption and hope that your daughter's boyfriend doesn't know this which makes it a lesser (venial) sin.
I would suggest having your daughter suggest to her boyfriend to try attending Mass again or maybe even just ask why he has stopped attending. I have a friend who after leaving to go off to college stopped attending Mass unless he was home for the weekend, when I asked him why, he told me that he just stopped caring
and didn't even enjoy attending .
There are three different states of Salvation that we believe in (to my knowledge):
We have been saved by Christ's death, Resurrection, and Redemption.
We are being saved by striving to walk w/Christ, aided by the Holy Spirit, conferred upon us in Baptism (and Confirmation).
We hope to be saved when Christ comes again.
You can't stop attending the Catholic Church, the Church is a being. One CAN, however, stop attending Mass, the Catholic version of the Protestant "attending church". Not going to Mass every Sunday and also on Holy Day's of Obligation can be a serious (mortal) sin if it is known that it is. It would be my presumption and hope that your daughter's boyfriend doesn't know this which makes it a lesser (venial) sin.
I would suggest having your daughter suggest to her boyfriend to try attending Mass again or maybe even just ask why he has stopped attending. I have a friend who after leaving to go off to college stopped attending Mass unless he was home for the weekend, when I asked him why, he told me that he just stopped caring
and didn't even enjoy attending .
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Benedicta00
Well-Known Member
What he probably means is that by virtue of his baptism he has been justified- which he has. A person can not work for justification nor can they lose justification. The Catholic teaching is now he can and should live out his faith that he has been given by reviving the sacraments and practicing virtue. He is choosing not to do that it seems and the Catholic faith tells us that faith with out works is dead faith.
Justification and salvation are not the same. He may not understand the Catholic faith properly. Faith that is dead can not end up being saved.
Justification and salvation are not the same. He may not understand the Catholic faith properly. Faith that is dead can not end up being saved.
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Acceptance
sugar and spice
FullyMT gave a good explanation. For Catholics, we believe being saved is not as simple as having faith in Christ at any one second in your life. We believe you must sustain that faith for many seconds strung together, for a time equalling up to the rest of your life.
But lets look at it in another way. From a Protestant viewpoint, if your daughters boyfriend was confirmed or receives Catholic communion then he is saved. What I mean is, that in the Catholic church, to become confirmed or to receive communion, you must believe in Jesus as Lord (and a whole line of other things, i.e. He died for us, He will come again, etc.). In many Protestant churches (and it sounds like your's is included in this), the moment you believe in Jesus as your Lord and Savior you are saved, and even if you later in life begin to question this faith, you are still saved because you can never lose your salvation. People confirmed in the Catholic church obviously do or at least they did at one time; so thus by the Protestant standards for salvation, confirmed Catholics are saved.
In the end though, Catholics do not believe a Catechism class will save you. It may help, in that it may help you to develop your faith by teaching you about Christ which could then lead to your belief in Him, but the class itself has no such magical powers.
But lets look at it in another way. From a Protestant viewpoint, if your daughters boyfriend was confirmed or receives Catholic communion then he is saved. What I mean is, that in the Catholic church, to become confirmed or to receive communion, you must believe in Jesus as Lord (and a whole line of other things, i.e. He died for us, He will come again, etc.). In many Protestant churches (and it sounds like your's is included in this), the moment you believe in Jesus as your Lord and Savior you are saved, and even if you later in life begin to question this faith, you are still saved because you can never lose your salvation. People confirmed in the Catholic church obviously do or at least they did at one time; so thus by the Protestant standards for salvation, confirmed Catholics are saved.
In the end though, Catholics do not believe a Catechism class will save you. It may help, in that it may help you to develop your faith by teaching you about Christ which could then lead to your belief in Him, but the class itself has no such magical powers.
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VOW
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To Catholics, salvation is a process, not an event. We do not believe in "once saved, always saved." Baptism puts you on the path of righteousness, and your participation in the Sacraments strengthens you on your journey through life to the end. It IS possible to stumble and fall from this path, but through the help of Jesus, the Church, and the Word of God, you can be restored to this path and continue on.
Peace be with you,
~VOW
Peace be with you,
~VOW
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geocajun
Priest of the holy smackrament
Hi Pattie,Pattie said:
Catechesis does not give one any saving graces so we cannot be saved by simply attending it.
As Catholics, we are not taught that we are saved in the same sense that protestants understand it.
We believe salvation is a process which comes in 3 parts.
1. Initial Justification (aka baptism)
2. On-going [progressive] justification (aka santification)
3. final justification (aka final judgement)
We believe that at baptism we are saved, and throughout our life, if we sin, then by our cooperating with God, we come back to his friendship through sacramental reconsiliation.
For a Catholic to simply state that they are 'saved' is not accurately representing their faith.
As a Catholic, to the question "are you saved" our response should be similar to this:
"As the Bible says, I am already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:58), but Im also being saved (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I will be saved (Rom. 5:910, 1 Cor. 3:1215). Like the apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:1113)."
(the above quote is taken from the following article: http://www.catholic.com/library/Assurance_of_Salvation.asp)
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Benedicta00
Well-Known Member
To clarify a point when I say we can not lose justification, that means once we are born again in baptism we can never undo that sacrament. If you should fall away and into mortal sin, you do not have to be born again, again. All one needs to do is go to Christ in confession and they are justified before the Lord to inherit eternal life.
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Another way to explain what salvation is to a Catholic is to approach it this way . .as stated above, it is a process, a journey, not a one time event in one's life.
For a Catholic, salvation is a here-and-now issue . . it is what is your relationship with God is right now, in the here and now, not what was it like a year, or 5 years, or 10 years ago, or a year, or 5 years, or 10 years from now . .. but right now!
So we don't worry about our relationship with God in the future, or what it was in the past, but what it is right now, that we be found in a state of 'sanctifying grace' in the now (meaning that are accepting and responding to God's grace, confessing our sins and receiving forgiveness for them, and living the Christian life in and by the power of God's divine sanctifying grace in our lives) . . .
It is in the here and now where we touch eternity . . and if we were to die right now, our salvation would be determined not by some event in the past irrespective of how we are living our life right now, but by our state at death . . if we are found in God's grace at death, or if we have turned our back on Him . . .
Only God can know each individual's heart and the actual state of that heart at the moment of death, so even someone who appears to have turned away from God could reconcile himself to God in that moment . . .
Some Protestants also have similar view (called Conditional Salvation or Conditional Security) and some have a different view (known as Eternal Security where one cannot loose their salvation once they are saved , , how this is expressed is different among different groups) . . so I don't know which you and your daughter are aligned with or how similar or dissimilar your understanding is from the Catholic understanding of salvation.
To clarify, the Catechism is merely a school of instruction regarding WHAT Catholics believe and how we practice our faith . . anyone can study the Catechism . .the Catechism, being only the instruction of the Church, does not save anyone . . it only instructs . . it is how one responds, with their heart, to what they learn of God that saves them . . .
And just because someone has been "catechized" this doesn't mean they understand their faith well . it all has to do with their teachers and how well they presented the material and how well it was understood . ..
Does this help?
Peace in Him!
For a Catholic, salvation is a here-and-now issue . . it is what is your relationship with God is right now, in the here and now, not what was it like a year, or 5 years, or 10 years ago, or a year, or 5 years, or 10 years from now . .. but right now!
So we don't worry about our relationship with God in the future, or what it was in the past, but what it is right now, that we be found in a state of 'sanctifying grace' in the now (meaning that are accepting and responding to God's grace, confessing our sins and receiving forgiveness for them, and living the Christian life in and by the power of God's divine sanctifying grace in our lives) . . .
It is in the here and now where we touch eternity . . and if we were to die right now, our salvation would be determined not by some event in the past irrespective of how we are living our life right now, but by our state at death . . if we are found in God's grace at death, or if we have turned our back on Him . . .
Only God can know each individual's heart and the actual state of that heart at the moment of death, so even someone who appears to have turned away from God could reconcile himself to God in that moment . . .
Some Protestants also have similar view (called Conditional Salvation or Conditional Security) and some have a different view (known as Eternal Security where one cannot loose their salvation once they are saved , , how this is expressed is different among different groups) . . so I don't know which you and your daughter are aligned with or how similar or dissimilar your understanding is from the Catholic understanding of salvation.
To clarify, the Catechism is merely a school of instruction regarding WHAT Catholics believe and how we practice our faith . . anyone can study the Catechism . .the Catechism, being only the instruction of the Church, does not save anyone . . it only instructs . . it is how one responds, with their heart, to what they learn of God that saves them . . .
And just because someone has been "catechized" this doesn't mean they understand their faith well . it all has to do with their teachers and how well they presented the material and how well it was understood . ..
Does this help?
Peace in Him!
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Many thanks to all of you that replied to my question on Catechism and Salvation. Your explanations did help shed some light on how Catholics see what I will call Salvation and I will be sharing this information. : )
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Filia Mariae
Senior Contributor
Pattie,
I see you pretty much got your original question answered, but I just wanted you to know you are welcome to ask as many questions as you'd like! We would be happy to answer them.
I see you pretty much got your original question answered, but I just wanted you to know you are welcome to ask as many questions as you'd like! We would be happy to answer them.
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