Okay, again, you speak falsehoods. You wrongly interpret. You are incorrect.An opinion. Nothing more.
And what "method" do you suscribe to?
So God talks to you directly when you read Scripture? Interesting.
I'm more than satisfied with taking the actual words of Scripture MEAN what they SAY.
Those who aren't satsified or comfortable with that method have a huge problem.
yada, yada, yada. How about some actual evidence to back up your lame claims?Okay, again, you speak falsehoods. You wrongly interpret. You are incorrect.
I hear perfectly fine. And all you've posted is unbiblical. As I've shown. Unlike your responses.Why argue with you? You will never hear me.
None of the cited comments are believable at all. But the last one needs a response.The severe words which follow (John 8:44) are addressed to them, for turning back, after their momentary belief, as well as to those who had never believed at all.
Underlining and capitalizing words, some of which stem from very horrible translations like the NIV, does not give weight to your soteriology. The Scriptures require interpretation that is illuminated by the Holy Spirit, by the grace of God. I don't know if you are aware of this, but your assurance of salvation doctrine is quite a novel one that was never supported by Christians until merely 5 centuries ago.
2) God saves; we believe, we trust, and we hope in Jesus Christ to receive salvation by grace. However, these things do not exclude repentance. Without repentance, salvation is impossible because true faith is not void of genuine repentance, that is, turning away from evil and wickedness towards the Light of Life, towards living a life pleasing to God, i.e. keeping the commandments according to His gospel. The Lord Himself teaches us that we must do something, and that something is not merely a passive mental assent that He is the Lord and Savior of our souls. No, true faith produces good works, good fruit. But true faith does so not to earn one's salvation because that is impossible. The Lord says, So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do. (Luke 17:10) Clearly, He teaches us that even if we lived perfect lives according to all His will, this is but the bare minimum, not a cause to expect a reward, for salvation is a reward. But since we cannot earn it, we must hope for it with faith. Now, to your question, see below from Matthew 25:
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
4) Yes, salvation is an event. Are we in Heaven yet? Has the Master said, "Well done, good and faithful servant...Enter into the joy of your Lord"? No, He has not yet said this. Have you read Philippians 2? Why is Paul pressing toward the mark for the prize of the upward calling of God in Christ Jesus? Why is that same Apostle bringing his body under subjection, lest after preaching to others he might be disqualified (2 Cor)? Nevermind that: Why does the Lord say that those who endure to the end shall be saved? And further, why does He says, "In your patience, possess ye your souls"?
Oh gosh, I don't want to play Bible pingpong with you because you will never want to believe me. People who hold the assurance of salvation doctrine cannot comprehend how it can be possible to be saved by grace through faith and yet not be assured salvation no matter what. In other words, they cannot fathom that they will be the ones knocking on the gates of Heaven saying, "Lord, Lord! Open unto us!" And then the Lord will say, "Depart from Me, you workers of iniquity! I never knew you!" and "There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
5) Yes, sanctification is obviously a process. But do not put limits on God, for if He so willed it, we could arrive to perfection almost instantaneously. Yet, this is most often not His will, as our lives are living proof of that.
This claim has not been supported from Scripture. And the claim that physical life is the "only life" is laughable. The Bible speaks of eternal life, which only believers possess.
Only those who can't grasp the difference between physical and eternal life would make such a statement.
In fact, the souls of unbelievers will exist after physical life in a place the Bible calls the "second death". Doesn't sound like living to me.
Please read John 5:24 again. Jesus uses the past tense, present tense and future tense regarding those who have believed.
Go ahead and continue to abuse the meaning of the present tense.
Regarding the sealing of the Holy Spirit, noted in Eph 1:13,14, the sealing is for those "having believed". Aorist tense. And the result is the guarantee of our inheritance. Based on having believed. Not "is" believing, as if one must continue to believe in order to continue to be saved, or even just to be saved.
Again, you fail to grasp Jesus' words in John 10:28a.
Whoever believes (John 5:24) or the one who believes (John 6:47) possesses eternal life. And v.28a says those Jesus gives eternal life shall never perish.
The notion of losing eternal life means one MUST deny Jesus' words.
The promise is for those who have been given eternal life. Jesus said so. Jn 10:28a.
So, once again, is this about physical Jews or who, exactly?
Yes, I fully agree that you've misunderstand a whole lot of Scripture.
I noticed that you failed to answer my question. Nor address ALL the verses that actually SAY plainly that Jesus died for all.Yes, you are. I posted the passage where Jesus said He was only sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. You responded by saying, "by this logic." What logic? Jesus said it. If He said He only came to Israel, did He only come to Israel?
lol. So, I'm curious as to what you consider was aimed at Gentiles in the Bible? Care to share?You're trying to take passages of Scripture that were aimed at Israel and apply them to Gentiles. That's eisegesis.
Please re-do this sentence, as it doesn't make any sense. The Bible speaks of physical life and eternal life. Why argue with that?And you claim that there is any other form of life has not been proven from Scripture, like the majority of the claims you've made.
It's quite easy to disagree with someone and charge them with "taking out of context". It's quite another thing to prove such a claim.What's laughable is this argument that you're attempting to make. You've given nothing to support your claim except a passage of Scripture taken out of context.
Consider this: eternal life is descxribed as a gift of God in Rom 6:23. And the gospel of John is FULL of verses that say that eternal life (the gift) is GIVEN to believers. So it should be obvious to anyone that it's quite different than physical life.Even in this statement you indicate that eternal life is something other than our physical life.
Not a bad translation. What I said DOES refute your position and you have no reply.Translation, it refutes your position and you have not reply
All your claims are unproven assumptions.Another unproven assumption.
No, you've only offered another unproven opinion.I've already pointed out that the word guarantee isn't in that passage.
lol. The seal is the indwelling Holy Spirit Himself. Is this a suggestion that the Holy Spirit can be broken? How ridiculous.Also, a seal can be broken that can be clearly seen in the Scriptures.
I wish you would.NO, just understand the Scriptures correctly.
No, I have pointed out the issue, which is the CAUSE and EFFECT of possessing eternal life.Again you avoid the issue
lol.No offense, but it's hard to have a discussion with you when you lack even a rudimentary understanding of Scripture.
I choose to believe what the Bible SAYS. Why don't you?You go from passage to passage trying to weave together a narrative to fit what you choose to believe.
No one has done that. What I have been getting is a lot of unsubstantiated opinions.When someone put forward any evidence that refutes what you say you simply ignore it and continue to beat the same drum.
Why haven't you answered my questions? That's how a "legitimate discussion" goes.Instead of trying to prove everyone else wrong why not sit down and have a ligitimate discussion
I said:
"No, I've not reasoned anything away. I have pointed out what a foolish claim is."
I noticed that you failed to answer my question. Nor address ALL the verses that actually SAY plainly that Jesus died for all.
Have you snipped John 4:42 out of your Bible yet? The Samaritans knew that Jesus was the Savior of the world. Or 1 John 4:14 where John the beloved disciple also noted that Jesus is the Savior of the world?
lol. So, I'm curious as to what you consider was aimed at Gentiles in the Bible? Care to share?
Please re-do this sentence, as it doesn't make any sense. The Bible speaks of physical life and eternal life. Why argue with that?
It's quite easy to disagree with someone and charge them with "taking out of context". It's quite another thing to prove such a claim.
So, if I have, where is the proof that supports your charge? So far, all I've seen is a lot of opinion.
Consider this: eternal life is descxribed as a gift of God in Rom 6:23. And the gospel of John is FULL of verses that say that eternal life (the gift) is GIVEN to believers. So it should be obvious to anyone that it's quite different than physical life.
To equate the 2 is absurd.
I said:
"Only those who can't grasp the difference between physical and eternal life would make such a statement."
Your response:
Not a bad translation. What I said DOES refute your position and you have no reply.
All your claims are unproven assumptions.
I said this:
"Regarding the sealing of the Holy Spirit, noted in Eph 1:13,14, the sealing is for those "having believed". Aorist tense. And the result is the guarantee of our inheritance. Based on having believed. Not "is" believing, as if one must continue to believe in order to continue to be saved, or even just to be saved."
Your response:
No, you've only offered another unproven opinion.
Here is Eph 1:14 - who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.
At www.biblehub.com there are 28 translations in English. 8 of them use "guarantee" or "guaranteeing".
lol. The seal is the indwelling Holy Spirit Himself. Is this a suggestion that the Holy Spirit can be broken? How ridiculous.
Or, is this a suggestion that the Holy Spirit can be removed from the believer? If so, please back up this idea from the NT. Yes, King David prayed that God would not remove the Holy Spirit. But in OT times, the Holy Spirit wasn't given to all believers, but only a very few, and for special purposes. In the NT, He is given to ALL believers.
I wish you would.
I said:
"The promise is for those who have been given eternal life. Jesus said so. Jn 10:28a."
Your response:
No, I have pointed out the issue, which is the CAUSE and EFFECT of possessing eternal life.
So, let's review:
Jesus gives eternal life. So He is the CAUSE of possessing eternal life.
Jesus said recipients of eternal life shall never perish. So the EFFECT of possessing eternal life is to never perish.
We know eternal life is for whosoever believes. So everyone (except you) knows that the promise isn't just for Jews, but whoever believes.
It is you who avoids the clear issue of eternal security from John 10:28a.
lol.
I choose to believe what the Bible SAYS. Why don't you?
No one has done that. What I have been getting is a lot of unsubstantiated opinions.
Why haven't you answered my questions? That's how a "legitimate discussion" goes.
If my views are "out of context" as charged, why hasn't there been ANY evidence or explanation of how they are?
If you are truly interested in a "legitimate discussion" please begin by explaining what Jesus was teaching in John 10:28a, and how it cannot be referring to eternal security.
I'll get the popcorn.
Rather, my view is focused on what the Bible actually says.Dude, you are all over the place.
Rather, all you've done is repeatedly claim that the passage I quoted is out of context.I've shown plainly that the passage you quoted is out of context.
When will this repeated opinion be proven from Scripture? And I asked for your explanation of what Jesus was teaching in John 10:28a.You applied a passage that was aimed at Israel universally.
Just another opinion. And unproven at that.That's Eisegesis. This thread can be closed now because the op has been disproved.
It is.It's not opinion.
What did He mean in John 10:28a? This hasn't been answered or expplained yet.I've shown what Jesus said.
So what? He is the Savior of the world. John 4:42 and 1 John 4:14.He said He was sent to Israel.
Then explain WHAT Jesus meant in John 10:28a.Anyone can read the passage. It shows that your use of the passage universally is out of context.
Then just explain what Jesus meant in John 10:28a.Thus your op is incorrect. You can pretend all you like that you're making an argument but any reasonable person can see right through it.
It is.
What did He mean in John 10:28a? This hasn't been answered or expplained yet.
So what? He is the Savior of the world. John 4:42 and 1 John 4:14.
Therefore, He died for everyone.
2 Cor 5:14,15, Heb 2:9, 1 John 2:2
Then explain WHAT Jesus meant in John 10:28a.
Then just explain what Jesus meant in John 10:28a.
That would clear all this up.
The absolute silliness that comes out of folks who kick against the goads of the truth of eternal security is amazing sometimes!Anyone who can read can see that what Jesus said. He was only sent to Israel. You took His words and applied them universally. That is out of context. Thus your statement is wrong. It's not opinion no matter how much you claim it is.
By not addressing the real issues you just show that your argument is weak at best.
The absolute silliness that comes out of folks who kick against the goads of the truth of eternal security is amazing sometimes!
Your verse.....He was sent only to Israel?
Why did The Lord Jesus Christ help the GENTILE woman(and she was SAVED) then? She had great faith, called Him The Lord, even knew that Jesus Christ was King in His humanity.
If he was telling this woman that He was only there for the lost sheep of Israel............why did he help her and not listen to his arrogant, proud disciples to "send her away."
I think it is because His disciples had forgotten a very BIG truth.........Of which He was reminding them of.....
Isa 49:6~~New International Version
he says: "It is too small a thing for you to be my servant to restore the tribes of Jacob and bring back those of Israel I have kept. I will also make you a light for the Gentiles, that my salvation may reach to the ends of the earth."
So why did He help this gentile woman?Are you gonna start the same nonsense? Those are the words Jesus spoke. If you want to apply them outside of that context please explain how to do so. If not you're just talking like he is.
So, what, exactly was He saying to Israel? This hasn't been explained. Why all the deflection?Anyone who can read can see that what Jesus said. He was only sent to Israel.
Please show how John 10:28a is "out of context" in a universal application.You took His words and applied them universally. That is out of context.
Your opinion is wrong.Thus your statement is wrong.
Your opinions are wrong no matter how many times you claim they are true.It's not opinion no matter how much you claim it is.
So, what exactly was Jesus telling Israel in John 10:28a?By not addressing the real issues you just show that your argument is weak at best.
The problem is your own misunderstanding of what Jesus was saying.Are you gonna start the same nonsense? Those are the words Jesus spoke. If you want to apply them outside of that context please explain how to do so. If not you're just talking like he is.
The verse about Jesus being sent only to Israel is because He is the King of the Jews, just as the sign above Him said during His crucifixion. He was sent to Israel because He is their king. Which they rejected as a nation.
To place either John 3:16 or John 10:28a in the so-called "context" of Jesus only coming to Israel is simply a smokescreen, designed to deflect from the obvious truth that Jesus guarantees eternal security for all who have believed and given eternal life.Great stuff Brother. Many overlook the fact that The Lord was directly speaking to a SAVED(and I contend a mature Christian. She answered doctrine with doctrine directly to the Lord.)gentile woman in His humanity. And she called Him,"Son of David." This is significant.
She recognized Jesus, in His humanity, as the King of the Jews.
So the phrase," I only came for the lost sheep of Israel."........did not apply to her. She was a saved gentile woman.
And by the way..........great to see you here contending for the truth also!
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