Ok. Well you tell me who is the other sheep pen?All one can do is speculate. Jesus never said who the other sheep were. However, that doesn't affect what I said because the words of Jesus that FreeGrace 2 is quoting were to Israel. How Gentiles enter into the equation is spelled out by Paul, but that came after Jesus words to the Israelites. My point is simply to show the context in which the passage was spoken. If one is going to apply the passage beyond what the context shows then they have to show how it applies beyond that context. FreeGrace2 hasn't done nor attempted that.
Ok. Well you tell me who is the other sheep pen?
Because a sheep is a follower of Christ.
So you just tell me who the second one is.
That makes no sense.We're not told. It could be the Gentiles, but we're simply not told. We can infer that it's the Gentiles, but that would be an inference. But since we're not told we can't say for certain that it is the Gentiles.
No, I was quoting the very words of Jesus Christ. He claimed it. John 5:24 and 6:47.Also, you've claimed that when one believes they possess eternal life.
This statement is a clear repudiation of the very words of the Lord Jesus.However, we can easily see that that is not the case.
Is this serious? Are you not aware of the FACT that humans die physically, but their souls live on for eternity. Those who possess eternal life live with God, and those who don't possess eternal life will exist in the lake of fire. Rev 20:15.Christians die. By definition eternal life means one doesn't die.
There is no connection between physical and eternal life. Apples and oranges.Thus one does not possess eternal life.
Which is ETERNAL life.The answer is in the other passage you quoted by Paul, Ephesians 1:14. Notice when they believe they received the down payment on their inheritance. They didn't receive the inheritance, but only received a down payment. The reason is because eternal life is given at the resurrection. Believers, when resurrected, will die no more.
Please re-read the verse. The guarantee isn't the down payment. The sealing with the Spirit is the down payment, or deposit.Regarding you use of the word guarantee. The word that is translated guarantee in some translations means a down payment. It doesn't mean that something is certain to happen.
This premise is seriously flawed. By that illogical reasoning (unreasonable), everything Jesus said would only apply to Israel. Yet, Jesus is the Savior of the world, not just Israel. John 4:42.Firstly, Jesus didn't say who those other sheep were. However, it doesn't matter because He said He had only come to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Nonsense,That statement right there limits the passage to Israel and as such your exegesis of the passage is void.
Which it seems you have no clue.It's not about what you claim because Jesus said He had only come to the lost sheep of Israel. It's all about context.
Your claims are preposterous. No serious Christian or student of the Word could ever accept them.That's why I said in the other post, the OSAS side has no argument only passages out of context.
All of the "all kinds of STUFF" have come from your posts.Here you've posted several posts saying all kinds of stuff. But it's all out of context. The passage was in reference to Israel.
Wow. Now, that's a novel way to figure out Scripture. And a failed plan.All one can do is speculate.
Not relevant. It's easy to understand who He was speaking about.Jesus never said who the other sheep were.
As the Savior of the World (Jn 4:42) your claim is simply preposterous. His words are for the whole world.However, that doesn't affect what I said because the words of Jesus that FreeGrace 2 is quoting were to Israel.
Ha. What hasn't been done is any attempt at executing John 10:28a by you.How Gentiles enter into the equation is spelled out by Paul, but that came after Jesus words to the Israelites. My point is simply to show the context in which the passage was spoken. If one is going to apply the passage beyond what the context shows then they have to show how it applies beyond that context. FreeGrace2 hasn't done nor attempted that.
So, who else could it be? There are no other choices.We're not told. It could be the Gentiles, but we're simply not told. We can infer that it's the Gentiles, but that would be an inference. But since we're not told we can't say for certain that it is the Gentiles.
That makes no sense.
To Israel, there is the Jew and all the rest are Gentiles.
There is no other group.
I do not understand your logic.
Do you not understand the basic logic coming from Israel being the chosen people and all others are ‘Gentiles’ or NOT Jews.
Maybe you don’t understand basic Bible and words used and how they are used.
So again. If Jews are one sheep pen, who is the other sheep pen?
It makes perfect sense. If we're not told something the best we can do is speculate. Jesus could have been talking about other Jews. Since you brought up logic let me ask you a question. Jesus said He had other sheep. You say these sheep are the Gentiles. How did Jesus have other sheep that were Gentiles when the Gospel had not yet gone to the Gentiles?
No, I was quoting the very words of Jesus Christ. He claimed it. John 5:24 and 6:47.
This statement is a clear repudiation of the very words of the Lord Jesus.
Is this serious? Are you not aware of the FACT that humans die physically, but their souls live on for eternity. Those who possess eternal life live with God, and those who don't possess eternal life will exist in the lake of fire. Rev 20:15.
I'm not unfamiliar with what Christians believe. It's just that much of what they believe is not Biblical. That can be seen from your statement above..Your profile indicates that you're a Christian, but it seems you're rather unfamiliar with what Christians believe.
There is no connection between physical and eternal life. Apples and oranges.[/quote[
Like I said, much of what they believe is not Biblical. Physical life is all people have. Eternal life is a physical life that's why one doesn't get it til the resurrection
Which is ETERNAL life.
No, the inheritance is not eternal life. It's the promises made to Abraham.
Please re-read the verse. The guarantee isn't the down payment. The sealing with the Spirit is the down payment, or deposit.
And the word guarantee isn't in it.
It is the deposit that GUARANTEES "our inheritance". That's what's guaranteed.
Again, the word guarantee isn't in the passage.
This premise is seriously flawed. By that illogical reasoning (unreasonable), everything Jesus said would only apply to Israel. Yet, Jesus is the Savior of the world, not just Israel. John 4:42.
Nonsense,
Which it seems you have no clue.
Your claims are preposterous. No serious Christian or student of the Word could ever accept them.
All of the "all kinds of STUFF" have come from your posts.
And you've still failed to exegete John 10:28a. But I understand why.
Because Jesus is the High Priest of the New Covenant. Jesus, as the ressurected Son, went on.
Jesus talked of His Kingdom quite a bit. He did not limit His teachings to only His physical life, otherwise how would you explain Him saying that the cup at the Last Supper is His blood or the bread is His body?It was a metaphor. I'm not sure what you mean about, "His physical life".
If you do not want to evaluate scripture in it's entirety and ALL of Jesus words, then maybe you shouldn't be telling us what Jesus meant.
Jesus said to His disciples, "I will go to the Father and send a Comforter to you".
Jesus was not as short sighted as you seem to think
I'm sorry but I don't see how any of this answers the question. How could the other sheep be the Gentiles when the gospel had not yet gone to the gentiles.
Are you claiming that Jesus never claimed it?You did claim it.
Dying physically says nothing about the soul. Sounds like your view is one of annihilation, whereby the soul is destroyed and doesn't exist.Yes I'm serious. No souls don't live on for eternity. Paul said the Father alone has immortality. Humans die physically because they are physical beings.
Right. I've pointed out what isn't orthodox Christianity from your own posts.I'm not unfamiliar with what Christians believe. It's just that much of what they believe is not Biblical. That can be seen from your statement above..
Talk about flawed reasoning!! If John 10:28 only refers to Israel, then only Israel is guaranteed eternal security. And only Israel receives the free gift of eternal life.The premise isn't flawed, your reasoning is. His words were to Israel that's the context of what He said.
It was you who responded to my post about eternal security. That's the topic I'm speaking about. And I exegeted John 10:28a to show the CAUSE and EFFECT of possessing eternal life, which directly speaks of eternal security.Pick one topic and let's deal with it. I'm not going to have 50 different posts going at once. It's too difficult to keep track.
Correct!God is not an Indian-Giver. His spiritual gifts and works are irreversible.
He keeps His promises.
Psalm 77:8
Has His lovingkindness ceased forever? Has His promise come to an end forever?
Matthew 28:20
.... and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”(of Grace/"CHURCH")
I said:
"No, I was quoting the very words of Jesus Christ. He claimed it. John 5:24 and 6:47."
Are you claiming that Jesus never claimed it?
Dying physically says nothing about the soul. Sounds like your view is one of annihilation, whereby the soul is destroyed and doesn't exist.
Which cannot be found in the Bible.
Right. I've pointed out what isn't orthodox Christianity from your own posts.
There is no question that John 10:28a is a statement of CAUSE and EFFECT.As I said, it's your understanding of what He said that is in question.
Talk about flawed reasoning!! If John 10:28 only refers to Israel, then only Israel is guaranteed eternal security. And only Israel receives the free gift of eternal life.
It was you who responded to my post about eternal security. That's the topic I'm speaking about. And I exegeted John 10:28a to show the CAUSE and EFFECT of possessing eternal life, which directly speaks of eternal security.
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