Salvation is Progressive Sanctification

[Christsfreeservant]

1 Thessalonians 5:1-3 ESV

“Now concerning the times and the seasons, brothers, you have no need to have anything written to you. For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, ‘There is peace and security,’ then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.”​

The primary gospel permeating the church today, at least here in America, is what is often referred to as the “cheap grace gospel.” It doesn’t mean that God’s grace is cheap, but that men have cheapened it by altering, diluting, and manipulating it to make it say what itching ears want to hear. So this cheapened grace message now appeals to the flesh of man because it doesn’t put the flesh to death but it now coddles and pacifies it.

It began as what is often referred to as “Once Saved Always Saved,” but gradually it has evolved to where it is being taught now that we don’t have to repent of our sins, and we don’t have to obey the Lord, and that we don’t have to submit to the Lordship of Christ, for they call that “works-based salvation.” So, they have turned light for darkness and darkness for light, for they are now giving sin full reign in people’s hearts and lives.

So, the message that they are giving to people is “peace and security,” but it is a false peace and a false security. For they are telling people that they can say some words after someone else in a prayer and now they are congratulated that they are part of God’s family and that heaven is guaranteed them when they die, and that it can’t be taken away from them regardless of how they live their lives from that moment forward.

Even if they use the word “repent,” they don’t usually use the word in the way the Bible mostly uses that word. Yes, the word means to have a change of mind, but when the Scriptures use it they primarily use it in the context of forsaking our lives of sin and our idols and us turning from them to God to now follow Jesus Christ in obedience to him and to his commands; to now go where he sends us and to do and to say the things he says to do and to say.

One of the big reasons that people are buying into this “cheap grace gospel” message is that it doesn’t demand death to sin in us nor obedience to the Lord, and so its adherents feel as though they can now continue living in sin guilt free with no fear of punishment, and that heaven awaits them in the end. It is also because they are ignorant of the Scriptures because they are relying on other humans to tell them what is true, which is a bad idea.

But what is happening, which has been going on all my life, is that Scriptures are being taught out of context and grouped together in neat little gospel tracts, and so the people are not being taught the true gospel. They are being taught that once they pray that prayer that they are now saved, done deal, and nothing can take that away. And even if holiness is being taught, which it mostly isn’t, it is not being taught in a way that impacts our salvation and our eternal life with God, so it is not demanded of anyone.

But the Scriptures, if taught in context, teach salvation, not as a one-time decision we make in our lives which guarantees us eternal life with God in the end, but it teaches salvation as progressive sanctification. It teaches our salvation parallel to the Jewish marriage of the Old Testament, which it is.

For when we believe in Jesus we enter into a marriage relationship with him which is really an engagement period. Our groom is preparing a home for us, and one day he will return to take us to be with him forever, and that is when our salvation will be complete, but only IF we turn from our sins and obey him and we continue in him steadfast in such faith as this until the very end. Thus, God’s promises to us are conditional on us doing the things he says we must do in order to have salvation from sin and life eternal.

Thus, Jesus said, “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’” (Matt 7:21-23).​

So, if you want to know the truth of the gospel, and of what I just stated here, then please read these Scriptures in their context and you will learn the truth of our salvation:

[Matt 7:21-23; Lu 9:23-26; Jn 6:35-58; Jn 8:31-32,51; Jn 14:15-24; Jn 15:1-11; Acts 26:18; Rom 2:6-8; Rom 6:1-23; Rom 8:1-17; Rom 11:17-24; Rom 12:1-2; Rom 13:11; 1 Co 1:18; 1 Co 6:9-10,19-20; 1 Co 10:1-22; 1 Co 15:2,58; 2 Co 5:10,15; 2 Co 9:8; Gal 5:6,16-21; Gal 6:7-8; Eph 2:8-10; Eph 4:17-24; Eph 5:3-6; Php 2:12-13; Col 1:9-23; 2 Thess 1:11-12; 2 Tim 1:8-9; 2 Tim 2:10-21; Tit 2:11-14; Tit 3:8; Heb 3:1-19; Heb 5:9; Heb 9:28; Heb 10:26-27; Heb 12:1-2; Jas 1:21-25; Jas 2:17; 1 Pet 1:1-5, 17-21; 1 Pet 2:24; 2 Pet 1:1-11; 2 Pet 2:20-22; 1 Jn 1:5-9; 1 Jn 2:3-6,24-25; 1 Jn 3:4-10; 1 Jn 5:2-3; Rev. 2-3; Rev 18:1-6; Rev 21:8, 27; Rev 22:14-15]

For, “While people are saying, ‘There is peace and security,’ then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.” So, please take this to heart!​

1 Thessalonians 5:4-8 ESV

“But you are not in darkness, brothers, for that day to surprise you like a thief. For you are all children of light, children of the day. We are not of the night or of the darkness. So then let us not sleep, as others do, but let us keep awake and be sober. For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, are drunk at night. But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and for a helmet the hope of salvation.”​

But if we are truly children of God, by genuine God-given faith in Jesus Christ, via dying with Christ to sin so that we can now live to him and to his righteousness, which is evidenced by our walks of faith which are according to the Spirit and not according to the flesh, in obedience to our Lord’s commands, then the day of the Lord should not overtake us, for we should be watching and waiting longingly for his soon return (Rom 6:1-23).

Yet, there is a warning here even to us with genuine faith in Jesus that we must not walk in the darkness for we won’t have eternal life with God. We are being strongly urged here that we must not be like those who are still in the darkness who are spiritually asleep. We are to be spiritually alert by walking in the light we have been given in obedience to our Lord so that the darkness does not overtake us (see Rom 2:6-8; Gal 6:7-8; 1 Jn 3:4-10).

1 Thessalonians 5:9-11 ESV

“For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us so that whether we are awake or asleep we might live with him. Therefore encourage one another and build one another up, just as you are doing.”​

Just because we, as believers in Jesus, are not destined for wrath, it does not mean we will escape God’s wrath by a mere profession of faith in Jesus Christ. We must turn from our sins and obey our Lord, for if we don’t, and if we continue to walk in deliberate and habitual sin, in disobedience to our Lord, we will not inherit eternal life with God. And we must continue in this walk of faith until the very end for us to have eternal life with God (1 Co 6:9-10; Gal 5:16-21; Eph 5:3-6; 1 Jn 2:3-6; Col 1:21-23; Jn 15:1-12).

So, if we want to be forgiven our sins, be delivered from our bondage to sin, and have the hope of eternal life with God, we must, by genuine faith in Jesus Christ, walk according to the Spirit and not according to the flesh in obedience to our Lord, in the forsaking of our sins until the very end. And these are not my words. This is what the Scriptures teach. We just have to read the Bible, especially Matthew – Revelation in context in order to get the whole big picture of our salvation and eternal life with God (Rom 8:1-17).

So, remember Jesus’ words here: “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who DOES the will of my Father who is in heaven."​

Listen to Our Hearts

Songwriters: Geoff Moore / Steven Chapman

How do you explain, how do you describe
A love that goes from east to west
And runs as deep as it is wide?
You know all our hopes,
Lord, you know all our fears.
And words cannot express the love we feel,
But we long for You to hear.

So listen to our hearts.
Hear our spirit sing
A song of praise that flows
From those you have redeemed.
We will use the words we know
To tell you what an awesome God You are.
But words are not enough
To tell you of our love,
So listen to our hearts.

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[LoveGodsWord]

Good post Sue, we have been talking about the same things in another section of the forum for some time now. Sadly many are not really interested in discussing the scriptures on this topic.

I posted this somewhere else this morning but I thought to add it here. Another interesting scripture is found in John 3:36 [36], He that believes on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God stays on him.

If you look at the Greek word tense for "believe" it is present indicative active which means it is possibly better translated as "believing" or applied in scripture,

John 3:36 [36], He that believing on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believing not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God stays on him.

The implications here agree with Hebrews 6:4-8 and Hebrews 10:26-31 that if we choose at any time to "depart the faith" into unrepentant sin and unbelief we are no longer believing but have become "unbelieving" therefore the wrath of God abides on us and we will not see life. "Believing God's word is not separate from obeying what Gods' word says according to the scriptures *Romans 3:31; James 2:13-26.

God bless.

HAPPY SABBATH!

 

[Carl Emerson]

A couple of issues here...

First.

So, if we want to be forgiven our sins, be delivered from our bondage to sin, and have the hope of eternal life with God, we must, by genuine faith in Jesus Christ, walk according to the Spirit and not according to the flesh in obedience to our Lord, in the forsaking of our sins until the very end.

So ultimately our salvation depends not on what He did but on what we do?

Second.

What happened to the New Covenant promise that the fear of Him indwelling us would prevent the spiritual catastrophe you describe?

Jeremiah 32
I will give them one heart and one way, that they may fear me forever, for their own good and the good of their children after them. 40 I will make with them an everlasting covenant, that I will not turn away from doing good to them. And I will put the fear of me in their hearts, that they may not turn from me.

So while I agree that a cheap Gospel is being sold - His promise of keeping His chosen stands.

In fact one evidence of real salvation is the assurance of salvation that is normative for true believers.

1 John 5:

this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

That You May Know

13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.

I should emphasise again that I agree that there is a cheap gospel being propagated.

However at the same time it concerns me that the Spirit of Fear of the Lord is little spoken about yet it is they key to retaining salvation.

Being a prodigal son with a second chance, I am deeply aware of the Fear of Him and the consequences of sin.

Fear of God is a best friend that keep us from disobedience.

Nor do I play down the Love of God that convinces us to embrace obedience.

Hey... your warnings are timely but, we must be careful not to deny His desire to keep His own

John 17:

Holy Father, keep them in your name, which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are one. 12 While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

 

[Christsfreeservant]

Good post Sue, we have been talking about the same things in another section of the forum for some time now. Sadly many are not really interested in discussing the scriptures on this topic.

I posted this somewhere else this morning but I thought to add it here. Another interesting scripture is found in John 3:36 [36], He that believes on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God stays on him.

If you look at the Greek word tense for "believe" it is present indicative active which means it is possibly better translated as "believing" or applied in scripture,

John 3:36 [36], He that believing on the Son has everlasting life: and he that believing not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God stays on him.

The implications here agree with Hebrews 6:4-8 and Hebrews 10:26-31 that if we choose at any time to "depart the faith" into unrepentant sin and unbelief we are no longer believing but have become "unbelieving" therefore the wrath of God abides on us and we will not see life. "Believing God's word is not separate from obeying what Gods' word says according to the scriptures *Romans 3:31; James 2:13-26.

God bless.

HAPPY SABBATH!

Absolutely! I don't fault people for ignorance of some of these things if they were not taught them. I learned some of these later in life, for I was not taught some of them. But the problem arises when professed believers in Jesus refuse to look at what the Scriptures teach, for they are comfortable in believing what they believe, and they don't really want to know anything beyond that. We need to be those who examine the Scriptures with a thirst for truth, but many seem content not knowing the truth. And that is a very sad reality.

 

[Christsfreeservant]

A couple of issues here...

First.



So ultimately our salvation depends not on what He did but on what we do?

Second.

What happened to the New Covenant promise that the fear of Him indwelling us would prevent the spiritual catastrophe you describe?

Jeremiah 32
I will give them one heart and one way, that they may fear me forever, for their own good and the good of their children after them. 40 I will make with them an everlasting covenant, that I will not turn away from doing good to them. And I will put the fear of me in their hearts, that they may not turn from me.

So while I agree that a cheap Gospel is being sold - His promise of keeping His chosen stands.

In fact one evidence of real salvation is the assurance of salvation that is normative for true believers.

1 John 5:

this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

That You May Know

13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.

I should emphasise again that I agree that there is a cheap gospel being propagated.

However at the same time it concerns me that the Spirit of Fear of the Lord is little spoken about yet it is they key to retaining salvation.

Being a prodigal son with a second chance, I am deeply aware of the Fear of Him and the consequences of sin.

Fear of God is a best friend that keep us from disobedience.

Nor do I play down the Love of God that convinces us to embrace obedience.

Hey... your warnings are timely but, we must be careful not to deny His desire to keep His own

John 17:

Holy Father, keep them in your name, which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are one. 12 While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost except the son of destruction, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

Carl, none of these NT passages you shared negate what I shared here. You just have to read them in the full context of the particular books in which they were written and in the full context of the NT as a whole. For example, you quote 1 John 5:11-12, but compare that to 1 Jn 1:5-9; 1 Jn 2:3-6, and 1 Jn 3:4-10.

Also, our salvation depends on what Jesus did first and foremost but it also depends on us doing what he commands that we must do in his strength and power. For if we refuse to do what he commands then the Scriptures teach that we don't have eternal life with God. 1 John alone says that, but so do so many of these other Scriptures I referenced. The promises of God are conditional. "If" verses exist all throughout the NT. If we walk according to the flesh, we will not inherit eternal life, etc.

Yes, we can know that we have eternal life but that knowledge is based on the teachings of Scripture. We can't just make it up ourselves. We know based on what the Scriptures teach in their fulness on this subject of our salvation and our eternal life with God. For the righteous requirement of the law is fulfilled in us who walk not according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit (Rom 8) and if we walk in the light as he is in the light we have fellowship with one another and his blood cleanses us from all sin (1 Jn 1). For the promise of salvation and eternal life is conditional on us "believing" in Jesus actively which means doing what he says to do.

Just take the time to read through all the passages I referenced, prayerfully, and with an open heart and mind to hear from the Lord and you can't help but see the truth. It is all throughout the NT that how we live our lives on this earth impacts whether or not we have true salvation from sin and eternal life with God. I mean it could not be more clear. When it says that if sin is what you practice that you don't have eternal life, and if sin is what you are practicing habitually and deliberately, then that is speaking to you. That is why Jesus said that not everyone who says "Lord Lord" will enter into his eternal kingdom but only those who DO (doing) the will of God. So right there it says that what we do (in practice) determines if we are saved or not.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Sue, I am not trying to negate anything you said.

All I am saying is the truely saved can know they are truely saved.

I am also attributing salvation ultimately to Him not us.

There is a big problem I agree.

There is no such thing as a cheap gospel - it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God.

I share your concerns.

 

[klutedavid]

1 Thessalonians 5:1-3 ESV

“Now concerning the times and the seasons, brothers, you have no need to have anything written to you. For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, ‘There is peace and security,’ then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.”​

The primary gospel permeating the church today, at least here in America, is what is often referred to as the “cheap grace gospel.” It doesn’t mean that God’s grace is cheap, but that men have cheapened it by altering, diluting, and manipulating it to make it say what itching ears want to hear. So this cheapened grace message now appeals to the flesh of man because it doesn’t put the flesh to death but it now coddles and pacifies it.

It began as what is often referred to as “Once Saved Always Saved,” but gradually it has evolved to where it is being taught now that we don’t have to repent of our sins, and we don’t have to obey the Lord, and that we don’t have to submit to the Lordship of Christ, for they call that “works-based salvation.” So, they have turned light for darkness and darkness for light, for they are now giving sin full reign in people’s hearts and lives.

So, the message that they are giving to people is “peace and security,” but it is a false peace and a false security. For they are telling people that they can say some words after someone else in a prayer and now they are congratulated that they are part of God’s family and that heaven is guaranteed them when they die, and that it can’t be taken away from them regardless of how they live their lives from that moment forward.

Even if they use the word “repent,” they don’t usually use the word in the way the Bible mostly uses that word. Yes, the word means to have a change of mind, but when the Scriptures use it they primarily use it in the context of forsaking our lives of sin and our idols and us turning from them to God to now follow Jesus Christ in obedience to him and to his commands; to now go where he sends us and to do and to say the things he says to do and to say.

One of the big reasons that people are buying into this “cheap grace gospel” message is that it doesn’t demand death to sin in us nor obedience to the Lord, and so its adherents feel as though they can now continue living in sin guilt free with no fear of punishment, and that heaven awaits them in the end. It is also because they are ignorant of the Scriptures because they are relying on other humans to tell them what is true, which is a bad idea.

But what is happening, which has been going on all my life, is that Scriptures are being taught out of context and grouped together in neat little gospel tracts, and so the people are not being taught the true gospel. They are being taught that once they pray that prayer that they are now saved, done deal, and nothing can take that away. And even if holiness is being taught, which it mostly isn’t, it is not being taught in a way that impacts our salvation and our eternal life with God, so it is not demanded of anyone.

But the Scriptures, if taught in context, teach salvation, not as a one-time decision we make in our lives which guarantees us eternal life with God in the end, but it teaches salvation as progressive sanctification. It teaches our salvation parallel to the Jewish marriage of the Old Testament, which it is.

For when we believe in Jesus we enter into a marriage relationship with him which is really an engagement period. Our groom is preparing a home for us, and one day he will return to take us to be with him forever, and that is when our salvation will be complete, but only IF we turn from our sins and obey him and we continue in him steadfast in such faith as this until the very end. Thus, God’s promises to us are conditional on us doing the things he says we must do in order to have salvation from sin and life eternal.

Thus, Jesus said, “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’” (Matt 7:21-23).​

So, if you want to know the truth of the gospel, and of what I just stated here, then please read these Scriptures in their context and you will learn the truth of our salvation:

[Matt 7:21-23; Lu 9:23-26; Jn 6:35-58; Jn 8:31-32,51; Jn 14:15-24; Jn 15:1-11; Acts 26:18; Rom 2:6-8; Rom 6:1-23; Rom 8:1-17; Rom 11:17-24; Rom 12:1-2; Rom 13:11; 1 Co 1:18; 1 Co 6:9-10,19-20; 1 Co 10:1-22; 1 Co 15:2,58; 2 Co 5:10,15; 2 Co 9:8; Gal 5:6,16-21; Gal 6:7-8; Eph 2:8-10; Eph 4:17-24; Eph 5:3-6; Php 2:12-13; Col 1:9-23; 2 Thess 1:11-12; 2 Tim 1:8-9; 2 Tim 2:10-21; Tit 2:11-14; Tit 3:8; Heb 3:1-19; Heb 5:9; Heb 9:28; Heb 10:26-27; Heb 12:1-2; Jas 1:21-25; Jas 2:17; 1 Pet 1:1-5, 17-21; 1 Pet 2:24; 2 Pet 1:1-11; 2 Pet 2:20-22; 1 Jn 1:5-9; 1 Jn 2:3-6,24-25; 1 Jn 3:4-10; 1 Jn 5:2-3; Rev. 2-3; Rev 18:1-6; Rev 21:8, 27; Rev 22:14-15]

For, “While people are saying, ‘There is peace and security,’ then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.” So, please take this to heart!​

1 Thessalonians 5:4-8 ESV

“But you are not in darkness, brothers, for that day to surprise you like a thief. For you are all children of light, children of the day. We are not of the night or of the darkness. So then let us not sleep, as others do, but let us keep awake and be sober. For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, are drunk at night. But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and for a helmet the hope of salvation.”​

But if we are truly children of God, by genuine God-given faith in Jesus Christ, via dying with Christ to sin so that we can now live to him and to his righteousness, which is evidenced by our walks of faith which are according to the Spirit and not according to the flesh, in obedience to our Lord’s commands, then the day of the Lord should not overtake us, for we should be watching and waiting longingly for his soon return (Rom 6:1-23).

Yet, there is a warning here even to us with genuine faith in Jesus that we must not walk in the darkness for we won’t have eternal life with God. We are being strongly urged here that we must not be like those who are still in the darkness who are spiritually asleep. We are to be spiritually alert by walking in the light we have been given in obedience to our Lord so that the darkness does not overtake us (see Rom 2:6-8; Gal 6:7-8; 1 Jn 3:4-10).

1 Thessalonians 5:9-11 ESV

“For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us so that whether we are awake or asleep we might live with him. Therefore encourage one another and build one another up, just as you are doing.”​

Just because we, as believers in Jesus, are not destined for wrath, it does not mean we will escape God’s wrath by a mere profession of faith in Jesus Christ. We must turn from our sins and obey our Lord, for if we don’t, and if we continue to walk in deliberate and habitual sin, in disobedience to our Lord, we will not inherit eternal life with God. And we must continue in this walk of faith until the very end for us to have eternal life with God (1 Co 6:9-10; Gal 5:16-21; Eph 5:3-6; 1 Jn 2:3-6; Col 1:21-23; Jn 15:1-12).

So, if we want to be forgiven our sins, be delivered from our bondage to sin, and have the hope of eternal life with God, we must, by genuine faith in Jesus Christ, walk according to the Spirit and not according to the flesh in obedience to our Lord, in the forsaking of our sins until the very end. And these are not my words. This is what the Scriptures teach. We just have to read the Bible, especially Matthew – Revelation in context in order to get the whole big picture of our salvation and eternal life with God (Rom 8:1-17).

So, remember Jesus’ words here: “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who DOES the will of my Father who is in heaven."​

Listen to Our Hearts

Songwriters: Geoff Moore / Steven Chapman

How do you explain, how do you describe
A love that goes from east to west
And runs as deep as it is wide?
You know all our hopes,
Lord, you know all our fears.
And words cannot express the love we feel,
But we long for You to hear.

So listen to our hearts.
Hear our spirit sing
A song of praise that flows
From those you have redeemed.
We will use the words we know
To tell you what an awesome God You are.
But words are not enough
To tell you of our love,
So listen to our hearts.

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Cheap grace or expensive grace, the gospel of grace will always be the true gospel.

Acts 15:11
But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are.

Ephesians 2:7-9
So that in the ages to come He might show the boundless riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Absolutely! I don't fault people for ignorance of some of these things if they were not taught them. I learned some of these later in life, for I was not taught some of them. But the problem arises when professed believers in Jesus refuse to look at what the Scriptures teach, for they are comfortable in believing what they believe, and they don't really want to know anything beyond that. We need to be those who examine the Scriptures with a thirst for truth, but many seem content not knowing the truth. And that is a very sad reality.

Absolutely, good post Sue. According to the scriptures, God only holds us accountable for sin when he gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word and we choose to reject it in unbelief and continue known unrepentant sin that he has given us a knowledge of through His word as shown in James 4:17; Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31 which links into Hebrews 10:26-31. I enjoy your posts don't be put off if some do not believe them as from what I have seen so far I believe you are sharing the truth of Gods' Word which is a pleasure to read.

God bless.

 

[Christsfreeservant]

Absolutely, good post Sue. According to the scriptures, God only holds us accountable for sin when he gives us a knowledge of the truth of His Word and we choose to reject it in unbelief and continue known unrepentant sin that he has given us a knowledge of through His word as shown in James 4:17; Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31 which links into Hebrews 10:26-31. I enjoy your posts don't be put off if some do not believe them as from what I have seen so far I believe you are sharing the truth of Gods' Word which is a pleasure to read.

God bless.

Thank you. All glory to God. I appreciate the encouragement.

 

[Christsfreeservant]

Sue, I am not trying to negate anything you said.

All I am saying is the truely saved can know they are truely saved.

I am also attributing salvation ultimately to Him not us.

There is a big problem I agree.

There is no such thing as a cheap gospel - it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God.

I share your concerns.

Thank you, Carl. Yes, Jesus is the author and the perfecter of our faith. We can't even come to faith in Jesus Christ unless God the Father draws us to Christ. Our faith and our salvation are not of ourselves. We can do nothing in our own flesh to earn or to deserve our own salvation.

But Jesus died that we might die with him to sin and live to him and to his righteousness (1 Pet 2:24). He died that we might no longer live for ourselves but for him who gave his life up for us (2 Co 5:15). Jesus shed his blood for us on that cross to buy us back for God (to redeem us) so we would now honor God with our bodies. And Jesus gave his life up for us on that cross that we would no longer be enslaved to sin but to righteousness (Rom 6). Jesus said if anyone would come after him he must deny self, take up his cross daily (daily die to sin) and follow (obey) him (Lu 9:23-26). And the list of Scriptures like this go on and on and on.

And then we have all the Scriptures that tell us what happens if we don't obey, and if we don't submit, but we continue in deliberate and habitual sin (in practicing sin), and they tell us that we will not inherit eternal life with God no matter what we profess with our lips or think we believe in our hearts.

Yes, we can know that we have salvation from sin, but that knowing has to be based in the truths of Scripture which teach us that if we go back to living in sin or if we continue living in sin that we will not inherit eternal life. And we have all the verses that tell us what we must do to inherit eternal life - believe, obey, submit, repent - all of which are really wrapped up in believe, and that belief must continue to the very end, i.e. to all "believing" actively in Christ in the ways he describes as belief in the Scriptures.

So I can believe today that I am saved but if later I decide to reject Christ and to turn back to a life of sin and to deny him his word says he will deny me, so it doesn't matter if I think I am still saved. What matters is what the Scriptures teach in their fulness with regard to what constitutes genuine salvation from sin. Even Paul talked about how he beat his body into submission lest after he had shared the gospel with so many he might be disqualified from the prize. The Scriptures do not teach easy believism. They teach that our salvation is contingent on us obeying our Lord, but in his power and strength according to his working in our lives and not according to our own flesh.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Thank you, Carl. Yes, Jesus is the author and the perfecter of our faith. We can't even come to faith in Jesus Christ unless God the Father draws us to Christ. Our faith and our salvation are not of ourselves. We can do nothing in our own flesh to earn or to deserve our own salvation.

But Jesus died that we might die with him to sin and live to him and to his righteousness (1 Pet 2:24). He died that we might no longer live for ourselves but for him who gave his life up for us (2 Co 5:15). Jesus shed his blood for us on that cross to buy us back for God (to redeem us) so we would now honor God with our bodies. And Jesus gave his life up for us on that cross that we would no longer be enslaved to sin but to righteousness (Rom 6). Jesus said if anyone would come after him he must deny self, take up his cross daily (daily die to sin) and follow (obey) him (Lu 9:23-26). And the list of Scriptures like this go on and on and on.

And then we have all the Scriptures that tell us what happens if we don't obey, and if we don't submit, but we continue in deliberate and habitual sin (in practicing sin), and they tell us that we will not inherit eternal life with God no matter what we profess with our lips or think we believe in our hearts.

Yes, we can know that we have salvation from sin, but that knowing has to be based in the truths of Scripture which teach us that if we go back to living in sin or if we continue living in sin that we will not inherit eternal life. And we have all the verses that tell us what we must do to inherit eternal life - believe, obey, submit, repent - all of which are really wrapped up in believe, and that belief must continue to the very end, i.e. to all "believing" actively in Christ in the ways he describes as belief in the Scriptures.

So I can believe today that I am saved but if later I decide to reject Christ and to turn back to a life of sin and to deny him his word says he will deny me, so it doesn't matter if I think I am still saved. What matters is what the Scriptures teach in their fulness with regard to what constitutes genuine salvation from sin. Even Paul talked about how he beat his body into submission lest after he had shared the gospel with so many he might be disqualified from the prize. The Scriptures do not teach easy believism. They teach that our salvation is contingent on us obeying our Lord, but in his power and strength according to his working in our lives and not according to our own flesh.

Sue,

From Gal 5:

The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

I do believe that His chosen can be robbed of a truely beautiful life of obedience and celebration, and spiritually disabled, by being fixated on the threat of going to Hell.

His will is that we should not be motivated by fear but rather Love.

However there is a healthy fear that comes from an encounter with His Word within that secures our salvation and gives us a hatred of sin and a deep concern concerning it's consequences.

For example I learned early in my walk to ask for a spiritual agony if I should stray from His best.

There are those among us who make it their business to become so concerned about what might be a speck in our lives while ignoring the beam in their own.

I once attended a church service and was given to see the giant chasm between the bottomless depth of darkness in my heart and His Holiness.
I wept through the service, being completely undone.

I knew I had absolutely nothing to offer Him in the way of righteousness.

To this day I still see the chasm that Jesus bridged on the Cross for me.

Nothing in my hand I bring - simply to the Cross I cling.

 

[SamInNi]

In our walk of faith we need to get real in our attitude to wrongdoing. There is no doubt that it’s possible to regularly attend church meetings and have a lifestyle that’s harmed by worldliness and an ignorance of God’s Word. If spiritual leaders struggle, members will be affected. They will not be properly built up.

True believers need to be stirred up to godly zeal. They need ears to hear. They need to be challenged to move beyond the basics into the deeper things of God. Spiritual immaturity can last a lot longer than it should — in my opinion, for years. Many genuine believers struggle to press on to maturity in Christ (consider as a principle the truth of Hebrews 5:12-6:1). Others may appear to struggle too, but will be lost (consider Hebrews 6:4-9).

For those who call themselves Christians, it’s the nature of the sinful behaviour that’s all-important. Is it a struggle with the sinful nature that occasionally holds a genuine believer back from doing the things he wants to do that please God? There are many reasons for this and one way of resolving it is humbly sharing with those who are spiritually mature (see Galatians 5:13-6:1, and consider James 5:19, 20).

Or is it intentional and habitual sinning — the ongoing wilful practice of sin — that characterises a person's attitude and behaviour? There are certainly contexts where only God knows who is who. A Christ-centered and Scripture-grounded local church is an uncomfortable place for compromised believers and false believers to be. They will be challenged or pushed out. We need to carefully examine ourselves while gathering around the bread and wine to remember Christ.

Struggles with the flesh are common. Those who temporarily fail to walk by the Spirit and to be led by the Spirit will not enjoy the fruit of the Spirit. Without our full armour in place it’s certain we will eventually struggle with the practices of the flesh. But ongoing wilful sin and the stubborn acceptance of religious hypocrisy will prevent many from inheriting the kingdom of God.

 

[d taylor]

*​

You know the words Jesus said to Peter can very well apply to the type of salvation, this thread promotes. Which is a man created salvation and saves no one.
But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.”

May God's free gift of Eternal Life, received by faith/belief/trust overcome this false man created salvation. May people look to The Messiah for God's free gift of Eternal Life and not to themselves and any actions they may think they are doing to satisfy God.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH WHAT DO THE SCRIPTURES SAY?

According to the scriptures, we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9. Obedience to God's law is not how we are saved because all of us have already broken the law and are under it's penalty of condemnation and death *Romans 3:9-23; 2 Corinthians 3:3-11. So it is by God's grace through faith that we are saved through Gods forgiveness of our sins. According to the scriptures, obedience to Gods' law is the fruit of genuine faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 as we believe and follow his word *John 10:26-27. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27. Therefore we do not abolish God's law through faith like some people teach but God's law is established in the heart by faith that works by love *Romans 3:31; 1 John 5:3-4; Romans 13:8-10. According to the scriptures, sin (breaking God' commandments and not believing and following God's Word) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 John 3:6-10; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14 and according to James there is no such thing as faith that does not have the fruit of obedience to Gods' Word. As posted to your friend faith without works is simply the dead faith of devils according to James 2:17-26. Gods Word does not teach lawlessness (without law) *1 John 2:3-4 and faith is not separate from obeying what Gods' Word says (see Romans 3:31; James 2:13-26; Matthew 7:21; 1 John 2:3-4). Our words and opinions do not really mean much in Gods' eyes. According to the scriptures only Gods' Word is true and we should believe and follow them *Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29.

God bless