Salvation Cannot be Lost

[Phil W]

How silly. Of course I do.

No you don't, or you wouldn't need to add your explanation to scripture.
There is no mention of a penalty for sin in Romans 6;7.

How silly. That's EXACTLY what believers NEED to understand regarding HOW TO BE in fellowship with God.
You are confusing the difference between fellowship and relationship by your statement here.
Do you really not understand the difference between a marriage and fellowship in a marriage?
So, I'll explain it. A marriage is a relationship. Fellowship is the STATE of the relationship. Many marriages have NO fellowship in that relationship.
Or, we could use the example of parent and child. That is a permanent relationship. But fellowship between parent and child isn't in any way guaranteed.
And the Bible uses words of both examples to express our relationship with God as His children and Bride of His Son. These are permanent relationships. And both relationships NEED to have fellowship, which isn't guaranteed in any sense.

All that to come to the point of...relationship and fellowship can't exist apart from one another.
Folks who sin are out of fellowship and have no relationship to God because they are still the children of the devil...manifested by their willingness to serve something above God.
No idolaters will be granted eternal life.

I said this:
"Yes, again, Paul was freed from it (penalty of sin) by the law of the Spirit of life in Christ."

You are adding to scripture, leading the sinners down a black hole of sinning with a false hope of salvation.
They are all unbelievers.

So you don't recognize the difference between adding words and EXPLAINING words, huh.

Then add your interpretation after the scripture is quoted, instead of in the middle of God's word.

Salvation is presented in Scripture in 3 tenses.
Past tense salvation: the believer has been saved from the penalty of sin. Justification
Present tense salvation: the believer is being saved from the power of sin. Sanctification
Future tense salvation: the beliver will be saved from the presence of sin. Glorification

Devilish man's doctrine designed to keep men subjected to sin.

Not until you enter eternity will you be saved from the presence of sin in your own life.

"Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin". (John 8:34)
"No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other." (Matt 6:24)
Servants of sin hate God.

But maybe you want to argue that you have already been glorified. Is that it.

My glorification won't happen till after my final judgement...if I endure faithfully till the end of my life.

We are justified from our sin (freed from the penalty) at the moment of salvation.

Salvation won't be assured till the day Christ returns in fiery judgement.

We are being sanctified during this life as we learn more and more to be in fellowship with the Lord and filled with the Spirit.

You have confused sanctification with growing in grace and knowledge.
We are sanctified when the atoning blood of Christ is applied to our body.
That happens when we are "in Him" on the cross at our "immersion" into His death.

We will be glorified when we enter eternity. Not a second before.

Just as I wrote above.

There are warnings against rejection of clear and plain Scripture.

Only the unbelievers ignore the warnings, exhortations, and admonishments of God's apostles, prophets, and pastors.

 

[Phil W]

How come the apostle Paul never said that? ("Some folks' repentance from sin is true, and they never sin again.") Or indicated that he had achieved that state?

He did, in Romans 6:7, 8:1, ! Cor 15:34, 2 Cor 5:21, 13:11, Eph 2:1-3, Phil 3:15, Col 1:28, 2 Tim 2:19, 3:16-17, and {perhaps) Heb 10:39...plus others.

Rather, he spoke/wrote in the PRESENT TENSE about his own sin. Romans 6, 7, and 1 Tim 1:15.

You've grown so intent on preserving your own destruction that you have found a way to slander apostles of Christ in the hope of keeping others from the righteousness Christ died and rose to give us. (2 Cor 5:21)

But, it seems you think of yourself as better than the apostle Paul.

Wasn't that the point of his service to God?
It is written..."Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:" (Col 1:28)
I'm no better than Paul, as we are both "perfect".
And it all starts with a genuine repentance from all sin...permanently.

I know that isn't good enough for unbelievers.

 

[FreeGrace2]

This is as straightforward as it gets, which is what rightly divide means.
I know it’s hard for you to explain away the truth of Jesus Christ, so you have to make up lies about me.
Jesus teaches His people that we must remain in Him, or be cast into the fire and burned.
Here it is straight from Jesus Christ -
Notice this is not a metaphor, but direct speech -
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6
Anyone, them and they refer to people.
Here is how the scriptures teach us to remain in Christ-

• he who keeps His commandments abides in Him

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24
JLB

At this point, it is clear that you just don't want to understand your errors.

I've proven from Scripture that you misunderstand what it means to be sealed IN HIM and what it means to abide in Him, which are different.

Doesn't matter how many times you repeat yourself, it won't change the truth.

A sealed believer cannot be unsealed. The sealing is a GUARANTEE of the believer's inheritance as a possession of God. See the previous post regarding Eph 1:13,14, 4:30 and 2 Cor 1:22 that PROVE this.

Your stubbornness against the truth is not a virtue.

 

[JLB777]

At this point, it is clear that you just don't want to understand your errors.

I've proven from Scripture that you misunderstand what it means to be sealed IN HIM and what it means to abide in Him, which are different.

Doesn't matter how many times you repeat yourself, it won't change the truth.

A sealed believer cannot be unsealed. The sealing is a GUARANTEE of the believer's inheritance as a possession of God. See the previous post regarding Eph 1:13,14, 4:30 and 2 Cor 1:22 that PROVE this.

Your stubbornness against the truth is not a virtue.

More of your opinion and insults, while dodging the actual words of Jesus Christ.


Jesus teaches His people that we must remain in Him, or be cast into the fire and burned.


Here it is straight from Jesus Christ -

Notice this is not a metaphor, but direct speech -


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and theyare burned. John 15:6

Anyone, them and they refer to people.


Here is how the scriptures teach us to remain in Christ-

• he who keeps His commandments abides in Him

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24



If we want to remain “in Christ” the we must keep His commandments.


Undeniable and Irrefutable.


JLB

 

[FreeGrace2]

No you don't, or you wouldn't need to add your explanation to scripture.

I add for YOUR benefit. To understand Scripture.

There is no mention of a penalty for sin in Romans 6;7.

I proved that to be free from sin refers to the penalty of sin by explaining the 3 tenses of salvation, which to this point, you just keep ignoring.

All believers will ultimately be free from the presence of sin when they enter eternity.

All that to come to the point of...relationship and fellowship can't exist apart from one another.

Hardly that. I explained, WITH EXAMPLES from human life that parallel spiritual life, that fellowship reflects the STATE or condition of the relationship. But you just want to ignore that very important bit of FACT.

Folks who sin are out of fellowship and have no relationship to God because they are still the children of the devil...manifested by their willingness to serve something above God.

Your faulty opinions have clouded your thinking.

I PROVED my claim with real examples to demonstrate the difference between the 2 words. But you just ignore any discussion of that.

No idolaters will be granted eternal life.

No unbelieving idolaters will be granted eternal life.

All believers WILL BE granted eternal life, and by Jesus Himself, and on THAT BASIS, shall never perish. But you deny what Jesus said.

Are you even slightly aware that denying anything that Jesus said is SINFUL, esp for one who claims they are sinless???

You are adding to scripture, leading the sinners down a black hole of sinning with a false hope of salvation.

This is just nonsense.

Then add your interpretation after the scripture is quoted, instead of in the middle of God's word.

You've totally avoided any discussion of the words "fellowship" and "relationship" because you know in your heart that I'm right.

If you are married, how would your wife respond to the question of whether you are perfect or not? And has been perfect since you got saved.

Devilish man's doctrine designed to keep men subjected to sin.

How foolish. Believers will be subjected to sin as long as he chooses to. Paul said so in Romans 6. btw, the believer will NOT be subjected to sin once he enters eternity.

"Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin". (John 8:34)
"No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other." (Matt 6:24)

That's right. It's a choice. A believer is either IN fellowship or OUT OF fellowship with the Lord, ALL the while IN relationship with Him.

You cannot disprove my explanation of the words. And my real world examples PROVE me right.

I'd love to have a minute of time to ask your wife about yourself, and what she thinks about your wild claims.

If you were perfect, then your marriage would also be perfect, because your wife wouldn't have ANYTHING to complain about, if you were perfect.

Servants of sin hate God.

It seems you just love to make broad comments, even though you have nothing to back them up. They are merely your own opinions, not anything from Scripture.

If this is all you've ever believed about how to get into heaven, you AIN'T going there.

The ONLY people who ARE going to heaven are those who have placed their FULL TRUST ALONE in the work of Jesus Christ on the Cross for their salvation.

If you EVER believed in Christ alone, even though your current theology is anti-grace and totally anti-biblical, that means you won't be condemned.

John 3:18 and 2 Thess 2:12 say that it is those who have not believed that will be condemned.

But, IF you NEVER believed in Christ's work alone for salvation, you are in a world of trouble. You are self-deceived, or satan deceived. Doesnt matter by which.

Salvation won't be assured till the day Christ returns in fiery judgement.

This totally false blasphemy has been refuted throughout Scripture.

Rom 4:4,5
4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation.
5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

Eph 2;8,9
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

These verses totally refute your opinions.

You have confused sanctification with growing in grace and knowledge.

No, you ARE confused. WAY confused.

Only the unbelievers ignore the warnings, exhortations, and admonishments of God's apostles, prophets, and pastors.

Just more very broad generalizations without a shred of any evidence to back them up.

It is clear from you posts what you are basing your "faith" in. Yourself.

Matt 7:21-23
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’
23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Notice the basis for entering the kingdom by this crowd. What they DID.
Notice the lack of any mention of faith by this crowd.
Notice what Jesus said to them; "I NEVER" knew you."

He could only say that because they NEVER believed in Him.

You, by your own confession, are believing in your own works to enter heaven.

Just remember what you said in your own post:

"My glorification won't happen till after my final judgement...if I endure faithfully till the end of my life."

That, my friend, will be your kiss of DEATH. Spiritual death by being thrown into the lake of fire.

Your belief is in yourself; to endure to the end of your life. Not even "good luck" will help you.

Luck isn't even a factor. Salvation is by grace, not by working for it. It's by grace, which is through faith. Not faith in your own miserable efforts of enduring, but by the perfect effort of Jesus Christ, who died on the cross for your sins and gives the gift of eternal life to those who have believed in Him for it.

But you choose to refuse that, and rather, believe in yourself and your own opinions.

Even if you have been perfect as long as you claim, it won't help you one bit.

Until you place your full trust in Christ's work for salvation, you WON'T have the gift of eternal life and you WILL PERISH, along with all the rest of those who placed their faith in anything other than the perfect work of Christ.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"How come the apostle Paul never said that? ("Some folks' repentance from sin is true, and they never sin again.") Or indicated that he had achieved that state?"

He did, in Romans 6:7, 8:1, ! Cor 15:34, 2 Cor 5:21, 13:11, Eph 2:1-3, Phil 3:15, Col 1:28, 2 Tim 2:19, 3:16-17, and {perhaps) Heb 10:39...plus others.

I'm not going to do your work for you. Since you seem resistant to actually quote any verse, but think "flooding" the post with a bunch of them will do, I CHALLENGE you to pick the single BEST verse that says people will never sin again during their life.

I've been reading through the NT monthly for well over a decade, and I've never read any verse that supports anything you have posted.

So, prove your case. Just quote the single BEST verse that supports your opinion.

You've grown so intent on preserving your own destruction that you have found a way to slander apostles of Christ in the hope of keeping others from the righteousness Christ died and rose to give us. (2 Cor 5:21)

The righteousness of Christ that you mention here is CREDITED to the believer in Christ. But from your previous post, your faith is in YOURSELF, you know, IF you endure to the end of your life. That's NOT faith in Christ in any stretch of the imagination.

I know that isn't good enough for unbelievers.

Nothing is good enough for unbelievers. Of which you've identified yourself as one.

Since you think you will enter heaven ONLY BY enduring to the end of your life.

That is works alone. There is nothing about grace or the perfect work of Christ.

 

[FreeGrace2]

If we want to remain “in Christ” the we must keep His commandments.

Undeniable and Irrefutable.

Ha. I've given you very clear Scripture about the sealing ministry of the Holy Spirit and you just dismiss/ignore/reject it. Well, that's on you.

The sealing with the Spirit is a GUARANTEE of the believer's inheritance for the day of redemption as God's possession.

And I proved that from Eph 1:13,14, 4:30 and 2 Cor 1:22.

And you can't refute the truth of Scripture. But you certainly can and have tried to twist it all out of shape.

 

[Daniel C]

Here's another good text showing how God never abandons his people. This is to David But it extends to the succeeding generations:

Psalm 28
28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.
29 His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.
30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;
31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;
32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.
33 Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail.
34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Here's another good text showing how God never abandons his people. This is to David But it extends to the succeeding generations:

Psalm 28
28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.
29 His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.
30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;
31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;
32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.
33 Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail.
34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.

Excellent passage!!

 

[Phil W]

I add for YOUR benefit. To understand Scripture.

Don't change what is written for my benefit or anyone else's.
You inserted wording that completely changes the intention of the scrip'.

I proved that to be free from sin refers to the penalty of sin by explaining the 3 tenses of salvation, which to this point, you just keep ignoring.

Your man made wisdom only proved that Christ's truth can't free us from sin even though Jesus said it could. (John 8:32-34)
Your wisdom is....faulty.

All believers will ultimately be free from the presence of sin when they enter eternity.

Our eternity with Christ started at rebirth.
Coincidentally, that is also where i was freed from the flesh, vile affections, and lusts. (Gal 5:24)
You can include old nature in that mix.

Hardly that. I explained, WITH EXAMPLES from human life that parallel spiritual life, that fellowship reflects the STATE or condition of the relationship. But you just want to ignore that very important bit of FACT.

Your examples are crafted to introduce sin into Christ.
Those who commit sin are the children of the devil. (1 John 3:10)

No unbelieving idolaters will be granted eternal life.
All believers WILL BE granted eternal life, and by Jesus Himself, and on THAT BASIS, shall never perish. But you deny what Jesus said.

Believers don't commit idolatry, or any other sin.
They will be found worthy of eternal life at the final judgement.

You've totally avoided any discussion of the words "fellowship" and "relationship" because you know in your heart that I'm right.

You must have scanned past it.
You insist that those out of fellowship with God are still in a relationship with God.
Those walking in darkness/sin cannot say they have fellowship with God. (1 John 1:6)
Those who commit sin are the children of the devil...not God. (1 John 3:10)

How foolish. Believers will be subjected to sin as long as he chooses to. Paul said so in Romans 6. btw, the believer will NOT be subjected to sin once he enters eternity.

And when he chooses not to anymore?
Than he can say "I am not a servant of sin anymore".
Believers don't offend God or neighbor.
They choose not to, by the grace of God and the Comforter within them.

The ONLY people who ARE going to heaven are those who have placed their FULL TRUST ALONE in the work of Jesus Christ on the Cross for their salvation.
If you EVER believed in Christ alone, even though your current theology is anti-grace and totally anti-biblical, that means you won't be condemned.

Your version of heaven is full of perversion and sin.
I want no part of it.

Matt 7:21-23
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’
23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Evil doers will be locked out of heaven.
I am sure thankful God gave us the gifts of repentance from sin and baptism into Jesus Christ.

Notice the basis for entering the kingdom by this crowd. What they DID.

Notice that their iniquity is what kept them out?

Just remember what you said in your own post:
"My glorification won't happen till after my final judgement...if I endure faithfully till the end of my life."
That, my friend, will be your kiss of DEATH. Spiritual death by being thrown into the lake of fire.
Your belief is in yourself; to endure to the end of your life. Not even "good luck" will help you.

As nothing will keep the most vile of people out of heaven...if they SAY they believe something, but as you just finished posting some were denied heaven because of their iniquity, you have just provided the most hideous mess for some new believer to deal with.
Obey God and live forever.
Disobey God and go to the lake of fire.

Until you place your full trust in Christ's work for salvation, you WON'T have the gift of eternal life and you WILL PERISH, along with all the rest of those who placed their faith in anything other than the perfect work of Christ.

As Paul wrote..." I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." (Gal 2:20)
Christ isn't in sinners.
Sinners are the children of the devil. (1 John 3:10)

 

[Phil W]

I'm not going to do your work for you. Since you seem resistant to actually quote any verse, but think "flooding" the post with a bunch of them will do, I CHALLENGE you to pick the single BEST verse that says people will never sin again during their life.
So, prove your case. Just quote the single BEST verse that supports your opinion.

"And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others." (Eph 2:1-3)
I'll add these two also.
"Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in anything ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you." (Phil 3:15)
"Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:" (Col 1:28)

Sinners are NOT "in Christ Jesus".
It doesn't matter what they say.

 

[Phil W]

Ha. I've given you very clear Scripture about the sealing ministry of the Holy Spirit and you just dismiss/ignore/reject it. Well, that's on you.

The sealing with the Spirit is a GUARANTEE of the believer's inheritance for the day of redemption as God's possession.

And I proved that from Eph 1:13,14, 4:30 and 2 Cor 1:22.

And you can't refute the truth of Scripture. But you certainly can and have tried to twist it all out of shape.

I'll believe Jesus before I believe your doctrine.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Don't change what is written for my benefit or anyone else's.
You inserted wording that completely changes the intention of the scrip'.


Your man made wisdom only proved that Christ's truth can't free us from sin even though Jesus said it could. (John 8:32-34)
Your wisdom is....faulty.


Our eternity with Christ started at rebirth.
Coincidentally, that is also where i was freed from the flesh, vile affections, and lusts. (Gal 5:24)
You can include old nature in that mix.


Your examples are crafted to introduce sin into Christ.
Those who commit sin are the children of the devil. (1 John 3:10)


Believers don't commit idolatry, or any other sin.
They will be found worthy of eternal life at the final judgement.


You must have scanned past it.
You insist that those out of fellowship with God are still in a relationship with God.
Those walking in darkness/sin cannot say they have fellowship with God. (1 John 1:6)
Those who commit sin are the children of the devil...not God. (1 John 3:10)


And when he chooses not to anymore?
Than he can say "I am not a servant of sin anymore".
Believers don't offend God or neighbor.
They choose not to, by the grace of God and the Comforter within them.


Your version of heaven is full of perversion and sin.
I want no part of it.


Evil doers will be locked out of heaven.
I am sure thankful God gave us the gifts of repentance from sin and baptism into Jesus Christ.


Notice that their iniquity is what kept them out?


As nothing will keep the most vile of people out of heaven...if they SAY they believe something, but as you just finished posting some were denied heaven because of their iniquity, you have just provided the most hideous mess for some new believer to deal with.
Obey God and live forever.
Disobey God and go to the lake of fire.


As Paul wrote..." I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." (Gal 2:20)
Christ isn't in sinners.
Sinners are the children of the devil. (1 John 3:10)

There is no point in further discussion. You have ignored much Scripture, and your opinions are contrary to Scripture.

And your opinions are contrary to each other.

You have claimed that you quit sinning when you got saved.
Then you claimed that saved people aren't sinners any more.

Yet, the Bible contains MANY commands to quit sinning: to believers.

And, you ignore your own contradictions.

 

[FreeGrace2]

My challenge to you:
" I CHALLENGE you to pick the single BEST verse that says people will never sin again during their life.
So, prove your case. Just quote the single BEST verse that supports your opinion."

"And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others." (Eph 2:1-3)

Not even a whisper about not sinning again. If this is your SINGLE BEST verse on people never sinning again, you have scored a huge FAIL.

I'll add these two also.

OK, I'll bite.

"Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in anything ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you." (Phil 3:15)

Another huge FAIL. The Greek word for "perfect" doesn't mean "sinless", as you opine. It means to be completed, mature.

"Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:" (Col 1:28)

3rd huge FAIL in one post!

See above for the meaning of the Greek word translated 'perfect'.

Sinners are NOT "in Christ Jesus".

OK. I'll bite. Provide your SINGLE BEST verse that says so. I'm really getting tired of your opinions.

It doesn't matter what they say.

It doesn't matter what YOU say if you can't support your claims from Scripture.

And so far, you haven't even come close.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"I've given you very clear Scripture about the sealing ministry of the Holy Spirit and you just dismiss/ignore/reject it. Well, that's on you.

The sealing with the Spirit is a GUARANTEE of the believer's inheritance for the day of redemption as God's possession.

And I proved that from Eph 1:13,14, 4:30 and 2 Cor 1:22.

And you can't refute the truth of Scripture. But you certainly can and have tried to twist it all out of shape."

I'll believe Jesus before I believe your doctrine.

Just amazing!! I quoted and cited 4 verses that PROVE in very clear and plain language that the sealing with the Holy Spirit is a GUARANTEE of the believer's inheritance for the day of redemption as God's possession.

And you just brush it all off as if they hadn't been written.

Well, that's your problem. You ignore the verses that directly refute your opinions.

And, btw, your claim is patently false. You cannot "believe Jesus" when you directly reject His statement about recipients of eternal life.

He SAYS they shall never perish.

You believe that those who have believed in Jesus CAN perish if they don't endure to the end of their life.

You can mark that up as just another sin in your life.

So please stop your claim about never sinning again.

 

[JLB777]

Ha. I've given you very clear Scripture about the sealing ministry of the Holy Spirit and you just dismiss/ignore/reject it. Well, that's on you.

The sealing with the Spirit is a GUARANTEE of the believer's inheritance for the day of redemption as God's possession.

And I proved that from Eph 1:13,14, 4:30 and 2 Cor 1:22.

And you can't refute the truth of Scripture. But you certainly can and have tried to twist it all out of shape.

Do you believe and teach that a person who was in Christ, then removed from Christ still has eternal life?


You completely avoid the words of Jesus Christ.


Jesus teaches His people that we must remain in Him, or be cast into the fire and burned.



If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and theyare burned. John 15:6

Anyone, them and they refer to people.


Here is how the scriptures teach us to remain in Christ-

• he who keeps His commandments abides in Him

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24



If we want to remain “in Christ” the we must keep His commandments.





JLB

 

[FreeGrace2]

Do you believe and teach that a person who was in Christ, then removed from Christ still has eternal life?

Of course I don't teach NOR believe that any believer can be removed from Christ.

How unbiblical!! Scripture tells us that those who have believed are sealed IN HIM with the Holy Spirit, who is a deposit GUARANTEEING the inheritance of the believer for the day of redemption as God's possession.

You've seen the verses already, but I'll cite them anyway:

Eph 1:13,14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22. It's all there, in black and white.

You completely avoid the words of Jesus Christ.

lol. Are you kidding?? You are the one who has been avoiding the words of Christ.

He said recipients of eternal life SHALL NEVER PERISH.

You claim recipients of eternal life CAN perish.

I believe Jesus. Not your unbiblical opinioins.

If we want to remain “in Christ” the we must keep His commandments.
JLB

So, you really think you have any part in keeping your salvation?

If you do, then that proves that you DON'T BELIEVE what Jesus has said.

Salvation is for those who believe that Jesus died for them, and paid the full sin debt on the cross for them, and gives them eternal life when they believe and that they shall never perish.

You don't believe that. Why should I assume that you are saved?

 

[JLB777]

Of course I don't teach NOR believe that any believer can be removed from Christ.

That’s why you are widely recognized as a false teacher.

• Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;

Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
John 15:2


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


Here is how the scriptures teach us to remain in Christ.


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

• he who keeps His commandments abides in Him

Why would John teach us that keeping His commandments was the way we remain in Christ, if it wasn’t true?




JLB

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"Of course I don't teach NOR believe that any believer can be removed from Christ."

That’s why you are widely recognized as a false teacher.

Actually, it's all the phony teachers who DO teach that a believer can be removed from Christ that are false teachers.

Why would John teach us that keeping His commandments was the way we remain in Christ, if it wasn’t true?
JLB

He never did teach what you think he taught.

In fact, I've from from Scripture that believers are sealed WHEN they believe, IN HIM, and are GUARANTEED an inheritance for the day of redemption as God's possession.

So, your repeated claims reject these verses:

Eph 1:13,14, 4:30, and 2 Cor 1:22.

What is quite obvious is your FAILURE to even attempt to explain or exegete any of these verses to prove that they don't mean what I claim they mean.

And every reasonable person knows why. The very words mean exactly what they say.

And you cannot prove otherwise.

To be removed from Christ would DEMAND losing the Holy Spirit indwelling.

So, please provide the very best verse that actually states that believers CAN lose the indwelling Spirit.

I dare you.

In the meantime, just remember what Jesus said about those He gives eternal life; they shall NEVER PERISH.

So your view that recipients of eternal life CAN perish is directly against Christ.

 

[Phil W]

There is no point in further discussion. You have ignored much Scripture, and your opinions are contrary to Scripture.

I can say the same about you.

And your opinions are contrary to each other.
You have claimed that you quit sinning when you got saved.

As I don't believe salvation is assured till after the final judgement, I never would have made such a statement.
I will say, however, that I quit sinning after my "turn from" sin.
I really, honestly, and permanently "turned from sin".

Then you claimed that saved people aren't sinners any more.

In light of the above, those in heaven won't be committing sin.

Yet, the Bible contains MANY commands to quit sinning: to believers.

The "believers" will obey the admonitions, exhortations, and teachings in the bible.
Unbelievers won't.
Not everyone reading the bible is a believer.