yeshuaslavejeff
simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
That happens to be one of the most dangerous and false teachings associated with religious people on earth.
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That happens to be one of the most dangerous and false teachings associated with religious people on earth.So no matter what evil you might do in the future, your Salvation is assured..?
I hardly know what to say. You surely are having a very difficult time following any part of this discussion. I said NOTHING about anything being forced. I said PASSIVE.So it is a forced faith, a forced belief, and a forced salvation.
No one is. Your salvation is passive in the sense that it is God who saves YOU. You don't save yourself. That's what the passive voice in the Greek means.I know that I wasn't forced to love God above all else and love my neighbor as I love myself.
Sorrowfully, you haven't been following very much of what I post.Of course your doctrine sorrowfully dispenses with that all together.
Find an actual Greek lexicon. The Greek word is "metanoia" and combines "change" with "mind". Or, "change of mind".The definition of "repent" that I use, from the Strong's Concordance is "Turn from", or, "Change".
It applies to EVERY sin that is an issue. This isn't some kind of a one time deal, as you suggest.If you turn from sin it must be 100%, or it is just a partial "turn" or "change".
No, it seems to me that your understanding of Scripture is about the same as your understanding of my posts.You proved nothing. You just keep saying the same wrong thing over and over again with a false belief it is true.
YES. We have a new nature. What you won't admit, though the Bible says we do, we still have the original sin nature.2 Cr 5:17 says..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new".
That includes nature.
Jesus said those He gives eternal life shall never perish. Don't you see what He was saying? Once given eternal life, the recipient shall never perish. Period.Why would we be commanded to do something that doesn't matter, as we already have salvation locked up no matter what or who we obey? (According to your doctrine)
I guess you don't realize that your faith is in yourself, not in Christ.Not everyone reading scripture has been reborn; and Jesus', Paul"s, Peter's, John's, and James' commands allow them to see the expected way reborn, repentant, lovers of God are to act.
You have trouble with commandments because it doesn't mesh with your "passive" doctrine of "God does it all for us".
He is no respector of persons.
If we disobey Him, we perish.
Wrong. You have demonstrated your nearly complete misunderstanding of what I post.And I've refuted them with scripture, and you attack them.
If you are referring to receiving th gift of the Holy Spirit, it's VERY passive. You have NO part in putting God's Spirit into yourself.Like what Peter said in Acts 2:38? ..."Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Not much "passivity" there.
Yes, we are told to believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved. Paul's answer to the jailer's question: "sirs, what MUST I DO to be saved?" Acts 16:31We are told to do something for salvation.
Jesus said that those He gives eternal life shall never perish. No conditions on recipients of eternal life.That happens to be one of the most dangerous and false teachings associated with religious people on earth.
"Believer" in hell?This tells me that you do not understand grace at all. Since Jesus died for ALL sin, there is NO sin that can effect our salvation.
And, speaking of the future, this is what Paul said about the future:
Rom 8:38,39
38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers,
39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
iow, there is NOTHING that occurs either NOW or in the FUTURE that will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ.
I once had a poster tell me that God will love the sinful believer even in hell.
You are writing like sin can be inserted into Christ.So, please don't patronize me with that bit of nonsense.
None but getting the future temple sanctified, as God will not reside in a polluted temple.If you are referring to receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit, it's VERY passive. You have NO part in putting God's Spirit into yourself.
You posted the words I would have cited...In answer to the question "What don't I have to do..."But, if you think you do, please explain how you do this and what verse informs you?
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Yes, we are told to believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved. Paul's answer to the jailer's question: "sirs, what MUST I DO to be saved?" Acts 16:31
What would your answer have been?
So what?btw, the words "will be saved" is in the passive voice.
Agreed.iow, you DON'T save yourself.
None, except they must be following Him, (John 10:27)Jesus said that those He gives eternal life shall never perish. No conditions on recipients of eternal life.
How do you explain that?
Wow. So according to your Theology. You can now down 100 folks in a Church today, with no repentance and still have your Salvation assured???This tells me that you do not understand grace at all. Since Jesus died for ALL sin, there is NO sin that can effect our salvation.
And, speaking of the future, this is what Paul said about the future:
Rom 8:38,39
38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers,
39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
iow, there is NOTHING that occurs either NOW or in the FUTURE that will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ.
I once had a poster tell me that God will love the sinful believer even in hell.
So, please don't patronize me with that bit of nonsense.
When I have an opportunity to share the truth with someone, I always take it."Believer" in hell?
Did you set him, according to your doctrine, straight?
No. Quite the contrary. And you are "listening" like you're not hearing anything.You are writing like sin can be inserted into Christ.
Scripture refutes your views.Sinners are not in Christ.
Wrong again. Gal 3:2 and 5 say that when people believe in Christ for salvation, they receive the Holy Spirit.If men turn from sin, and get their past sins washed away, they will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Here is more proof (truth) from Scripture.Until that happens, they are not the temple of the Holy Spirit.
They are not "in Christ".
Nope. Believing and receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit (His indwelling and sealing).But wait a sec...he is doing some things for salvation !
What are they?
Believing and getting baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
Do you think salvation precedes believing???BTW, You have posted that they are saved after....believing.
Believing is NOT a "deed". It is a response to God's promise.A deed done by the man.
Then, just to be clear, you disagree with Paul's answer to the jailer's question?Want to be saved?
Obey the Lord and His disciples.
I suggest you read more carefully. v.27 is a description of what His sheep DO. btw, to be clear, there is NO WORDING that even suggests that what they DO is WHY they become His sheep. That was made clear back in v.9 - I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.They will come in and go out, and find pasture.None, except they must be following Him, (John 10:27)
What in the world do you mean by I "can now down 100 folks..."???Wow. So according to your Theology. You can now down 100 folks in a Church today, with no repentance and still have your Salvation assured???
Wow......
Mow down.What in the world do you mean by I "can now down 100 folks..."???
Maybe this is a typo, but if it is, I can't figure out what you really meant.
So please explain your error.
btw, salvation is assured by what Jesus said about those He gives eternal life in John 10:28.
If you want to see a condition for never perishing in the Bible, John 10:28 is the perfect verse.
The condition for never perishing is to receive the gift of eternal life.
Clear as can be. Period.
See? Here is another example of your contradictory theology. Out of one side of your mouth you claim you CAN choose not to sin. But out of the other side of your mouth you claim you cannot sin.[/QUOTE]I sid:
"I once had a poster tell me that God will love the sinful believer even in hell."
[QUOETE]That can't happen.
Those in Christ cannot commit sin. (1 John 3:9)
Commands that mean nothing to those adhering to your doctrine.You can't have it both ways. And all the verses I've shared (truth) with you prove that believers can and do sin, and is why they are commanded NOT TO.
Not if you are born of God, we can't.Your claim that you cannot sin is unbiblical, as I've shown clearly and repeatedly.
If they believe, they will do what the apostles said to do, ie. repent of sin and get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins; it is then that the gift of the Holy Ghost is given. (Acts 2:38)Wrong again. Gal 3:2 and 5 say that when people believe in Christ for salvation, they receive the Holy Spirit.
"My" views don't go against what the scripture writers presented.2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?
5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?
Doesn't it bother you that so many of your views are refuted directly by Scripture?
Here is more proof (truth) from Scripture.
Eph 1:13,14
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.
Ah, nothing like some clarity. Thanks for the correction.Mow down.
Now twist you way out of it now...
Still can't see your contradiction, huh. If you CAN'T sin, then there is no reason for any command to stop sinning. And the Bible commands believers to stop sinning.I can't, if you want to remain in Christ. Or to be a Christian.
Does God quit with what He began in you? If so, you are going to have to provide any verse/passage that in plain language says so.But you can quit being a Christian.
Apparently you either failed to read my posts about God's painful discipline, or you have simply rejected it out of hand. Doesn't matter. They mean everything. They explain how to be blessed in this life and rewarded in the next. Or lose both.Commands that mean nothing to those adhering to your doctrine.
Is your lifestyle bigger than God?As you state..."I'm saved and nothing can change that".
More contradiction. The commands mean nothing to one who can't sin.Not if you are born of God, we can't.
Now this is quite interesting. I quoted 2 verses, Eph 1:13,14."In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. (Eph 1:13-14) KJV
I really don't care for your version of what the apostle really wrote.
I didn't see where Paul witnessed their speaking in tongues and prophesying after receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost like he did for the twelve at Ephesus.Nope. Believing and receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit (His indwelling and sealing).
Nope, but it may occur after we "do something".Do you think salvation precedes believing???
Responding is a deed as much as believing is.Believing is NOT a "deed". It is a response to God's promise.
Not at all.Then, just to be clear, you disagree with Paul's answer to the jailer's question?
I agree with what is written, but not that it is the full story.Acts 16:30-31
30 He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”
I'm always amazed at how much you disagree with Scripture.
Thanks for clearing up what I suspected anyway. You have no idea what a "deed" is. It's not just any kind of action.Responding is a deed as much as believing is.
Eternal life will be received at the final judgement.I said:
"Jesus said that those He gives eternal life shall never perish. No conditions on recipients of eternal life.
How do you explain that?"
His sheep know His voice and "follow Him".I suggest you read more carefully. v.27 is a description of what His sheep DO. btw, to be clear, there is NO WORDING that even suggests that what they DO is WHY they become His sheep. That was made clear back in v.9 - I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.They will come in and go out, and find pasture.
Agreed, His sheep won't follow Him if they have no faith He is their Shepherd.From many other verses, we know that salvation is through faith. Just like entering through the gate in v.9. So v.9 speaks of faith in Christ as the means of becoming one of His sheep.
There are, however, words describing who His sheep are...those that follow Him.v.27 is a description of what believers DO, or OUGHT TO DO. There, again, are NO WORDS to suggest a condition for His sheep to never perish. That's just very poor reading.
"27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:"In order to support your claim of a "condition" for never perishing from v.27, you're going to have to show the exact wording in v.27 that IS a conditional clause. You're not going to find one.
Thus not nearly given to everyone (only "few" according to Jesus, compared to the many on the wide road to destructin) ....Eternal life will be received at the final judgement.
There are plenty of "conditions, starting with "hearing Him".
That's what Jesus Says Clearly. yes. (and HEAR HIS VOICE) (you got this already too, I know)His sheep know His voice and "follow Him".
"His sheep" have faith. Those who have no faith, are not His sheep. For clarity.Agreed, His sheep won't follow Him if they have no faith He is their Shepherd.
YEs, MANY many many descriptors (adjectives and descriptions God says) OF HIS SHEEP, that few know. Righteousness, Peace and Joy, continually for example.There are, however, words describing who His sheep are...those that follow Him.
Who is able to determine who the sheep are ?"27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:"
That eliminates those who won't listen or hear His voice, and those who won't follow Him.
You seem to be having trouble determining who the sheep are.
Sheep from other herds or shepherds wont follow Christ.
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