Which brings up this question...are those who rebel against God "believers"?The short answer is that eternal life which has been given to believers as the gift of God, is not temporary but eternal. If it can be taken away from believers, it would not be eternal, and God would be lying when He says that the new life He gives to converted believers is eternal.
The believers that I am talking about are genuinely converted Christian believers who have received the gift of saving faith from the Lord. The devils believe from an intellectual point of view, but they cannot believe in any saving manner.Which brings up this question...are those who rebel against God "believers"?
The devils believe...and quake.
Those who hold a belief should be able to defend them. Those who claim "I don't need to prove anything" shows an inability to defend their beliefs.I don't need to prove anything since these threads get repeated a lot and no one changes their minds.
Interesting. v.28 is the single MOST CLEAR verse in the Bible on eternal security.Mentioning John 10:28 shows this is going to be one of those threads.
If foreign enemies can take a believer (remove their eternal life), then what Jesus said in John 10:28 and 29 is untrue.It talks about foreign enemies taking the believers, not the believers leaving for their own will.
Please read it again. It says nothing about losing salvation. It does say that it is impossible for those who have "fallen away" (by returning to the Mosaic law and animal sacrifice) to be restored to repentance.Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.
The answer depends upon whether such rebels have ever believed in Christ for eternal life. Then, such believers are saved, because Jesus gives eternal life to believers, and He promises that recipients of eternal life shall never perish. John 10:28Which brings up this question...are those who rebel against God "believers"?
The devils believe...and quake.
The issue is what they believe. According to James 2:19 they believe that God is One. That is called "monotheism", which was particular to Jews. Gentiles were generally polytheistic.The devils believe...and quake.
The short answer is that eternal life which has been given to believers as the gift of God, is not temporary but eternal. If it can be taken away from believers, it would not be eternal, and God would be lying when He says that the new life He gives to converted believers is eternal.
FreeGrace2 said: ↑
Amen. And if eternal life could be lost, taken back, etc, that would make Jesus' promise in John 10:28 a lie.
Please read it again. It says nothing about losing salvation. It does say that it is impossible for those who have "fallen away" (by returning to the Mosaic law and animal sacrifice) to be restored to repentance.
iow, those believers who returned (or were planning to, because of persecution) to animal sacrifices are not going to change their minds (repent) of their actions.
(by returning to the Mosaic law and animal sacrifice) to be restored to repentance.
iow, those believers who returned (or were planning to, because of persecution) to animal sacrifices are not going to change their minds (repent) of their actions
The whole context of Hebrews is to Jewish believers.It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,
True this book is written to the Jewish christians, who had just been exposed to the wonderful truth that Jesus was their long-awaited Messiah. If they rejected the clear evidence of the Word and Holy Spirit regarding this precious truth, there was nothing more that God could do to convince them.
The audience for Hebrews were Jews who HAD believed the gospel, but, due to persecution from orthodox Jews, were turning back, or planning, to animal sacrifices.This is what Jesus referred to when He said, “If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead” (Luke 16:31 NKJV). In other words, if we reject Jesus and the Holy Spirit after knowing them, we are turning away from the best that God has to offer us. There is nothing better He can send to convince us to follow His Word.
Let's look at v.18 first, for context:This truth is borne out more fully a little later in Hebrews: “For if we sin (including himself) willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries” (Hebrews 10:26, 27). God cannot save us from continuing in willful sin and rejection of the Holy Spirit.
Absolutely! Once a believer, always saved.The term fallen away
Strongs
Strong's Concordance
parapiptó: to fall in, into or away, to fail
Original Word: παραπίπτω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: parapiptó
Phonetic Spelling: (par-ap-ip'-to)
Definition: to fall in, into or away, to fail
Usage: I fall away, fall back (into the unbelieving and godless ways of the old time).
HELPS Word-studies
3895 parapíptō (from 3844 /pará, "from close-beside" and 4098 /píptō, "to fall") – properly, fall away, after being close-beside; to defect(abandon).
3895 /parapíptō ("fallen from a close position") refers to a close-follower of Christ who becomes a defector. It suggests this person (at least at one time) was a believer (note the para). 3895 (parapíptō) is only used in Heb 6:6.
Once a believer, there is no condemnation. Ever.Believers are believers whether jewish or not.
My comments about the believing Jews returning to animal sacrifice is noted by a number of scholars. Persecution was great against believing Jews. It was tempting to go back to animal sacrifice to avoid persecution.Verses in Hebrews that support this idea?
Sure, go with that.The issue is what they believe. According to James 2:19 they believe that God is One. That is called "monotheism", which was particular to Jews. Gentiles were generally polytheistic.
There was no 'faith' involved in what the devils believe. They believe that God is One because all angels were created by Him and lived with Him in heaven. They experienced monotheism.
So let's not confuse James 2:19 with some kind of non saving "faith".
Believing from experience doesn't include faith at all.
Do you have a better interpretation?Sure, go with that.
That you die, shows you don't have eternal life yet.Do you have a better interpretation?
What you can't argue with is what Jesus said about recipients of eternal life; that they shall never perish.
I'm always glad to hear about other non-sinners.The believers that I am talking about are genuinely converted Christian believers who have received the gift of saving faith from the Lord. The devils believe from an intellectual point of view, but they cannot believe in any saving manner.
Can you see that those who still serve sin are not "totally committed to Christ"?There are three steps to justifying faith:
1. Intellectual belief - but this is just mental assent, and Judas and the devils had that belief, and it was not enough to save them.
2. Total commitment to Christ on the basis of faith. This is justifying faith because it comes only through the Holy Spirit. No Holy Spirit, no justifying faith.
3. Total assurance of salvation. If a person has just (1) he can never have assurance of salvation. But if he has (2) he can have assurance of salvation, but assurance is not necessary for salvation. Many true believe go through life without assurance and struggle with all sorts of fears and doubts, and only know that they are saved when they find themselves in heaven when they die. But having assurance of salvation is the most blessed state to be in because one is justified and knows it beyond any doubt.
How about believing in Jesus for protection from temptation?The answer depends upon whether such rebels have ever believed in Christ for eternal life. Then, such believers are saved, because Jesus gives eternal life to believers, and He promises that recipients of eternal life shall never perish. John 10:28
Can you have faith without belief?The issue is what they believe. According to James 2:19 they believe that God is One. That is called "monotheism", which was particular to Jews. Gentiles were generally polytheistic.
There was no 'faith' involved in what the devils believe. They believe that God is One because all angels were created by Him and lived with Him in heaven. They experienced monotheism.
So let's not confuse James 2:19 with some kind of non saving "faith".
Believing from experience doesn't include faith at all.
But the genuinely converted believer doesn't serve sin. He is not under the power or penalty of sin. But there is still the presence of sin and temptation and it is part of the territory for mortal man.I'm always glad to hear about other non-sinners.
Can you see that those who still serve sin are not "totally committed to Christ"?
There is no assurance for sinners.
I'd like to introduce you to some things that Jesus said about possession of eternal life.That you die, shows you don't have eternal life yet.
The Bible says nothing about this kind of belief for salvation.How about believing in Jesus for protection from temptation?
Please exlain.Don't the beliefs go hand-in-hand?
Doesn't Jesus' promise in John 10:28 mean anything?Sinners show a false belief, picking the good and ignoring the "bad"
"Bad" like "endure till the end", and "Whosoever committith sin is the servant of sin."
And "No man can serve two masters."
Or, "Faith without works is dead."
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