Salvation: Calvinist Point of View

[The_Lords_Froggy]

Calvinists on this forum: (This is a little awkward, heh..) How do you believe that you know you're saved? I mean..I know you believe in pre-destination, but will you even learn or show an interest in learning about Jesus if you're not of the elect? It's just a curious question from someone who's been reading a lot about them lately. Thanks, and God bless!

 

[emdd]

Hebrews 11

 

[puriteen18]

There are signs to salvation that all true Christians are suppose to have.

One of these signs is conversion. Alot of people I met thought that we didn't believe in a actual conversion, but we do.

It's getting late here, so I'll try to get back with you tommorrow to explain further.

 

[LynneClomina]

CHANGED life

DEATH to self

CONVICTION about Jesus and what He did and that it's TRUTH

 

[Knight]

A lifestyle change of obedience to Christ over time.

As far as I know this is pretty much universal regardless of which camp you come from. (Calvinism or Armeniasm)

 

[Bro. Gabriel]

God has to break us before He can use us to our greatest ability.

 

[Foundthelight]

We believe the same promise as everyone else. We just believe that the decision to place our faith in Jesus comes from the action of the Holy Spirit in us due to God's election, rather than from our own will.

RO 10:8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart"—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,

RO 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

RO 10:10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

RO 8:28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.

RO 8:29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;

RO 8:30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

 

[CCRunner]

but "He wishes that none shall parish" if its up to the holy sirit then would the holy spirit just pass a person by and let them go to hell?

 

[LynneClomina]

but "He wishes that none shall parish" if its up to the holy sirit then would the holy spirit just pass a person by and let them go to hell?

here's the result of my study into this.... on a similar passage of scripture.

Luke 3:6 - And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.

Q. Who is “all”? The Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon says:

1) individually - each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything
2) collectively - some of all types

Note that it is not collectively all people or all things. Its is 1) each individual person or thing, every individual person or thing, any individual person or thing, all individual persons or things, the whole individual person or thing, every one individual person or thing, all things (individually), and every thing (individually); or it is 2) some of all types collectively (making a new whole).

That means that it’s either 1) every (each) individual that makes up a whole (a group) i.e. all those comprising a group individually; or 2) a whole (collective) made up from some of all types of people.

For example, it’s not all individuals of a whole (a group) – i.e. all the Jews or Gentiles – that are the saved, but some of all types – i.e. some of the Jews and some of the Gentiles – who make up all (collectively) of the saved.

... “the whole world has gone after him” Did all the world go after Christ? [(no, only all individuals of a certain whole group – the saved!)] “then went all Judea, and were baptized of him in Jordan.” Was all Judea, or all Jerusalem, baptized in Jordan? [(no, only all individuals of a certain whole group – the saved!)] “Ye are of God, little children, and the whole world lieth in the wicked one”. Does the whole world there mean everybody? [(no, only all those individuals of a certain whole group – the unsaved!)].

The words “world” and “all” are used in some seven or eight senses in Scripture, and it is very rarely that “all” means all persons, taken individually. The words are generally used to signify that Christ has redeemed some of all sorts -- some Jews, some Gentiles, some rich, some poor, and has not restricted His redemption to either Jew or Gentile ...
~ C.H. Spurgeon from a sermon on Particular Redemption

 

[Foundthelight]

but "He wishes that none shall parish" if its up to the holy sirit then would the holy spirit just pass a person by and let them go to hell?

I will quote from the Canons Of Dort the basic statement of Reformed Faith.

Article 5 - The Universal Proclamation of the Gospel
​

The promise of the gospel is that whoever believes in Christ crucified shall not perish but have eternal life. This promise ought to be announced and proclaimed universally and without discrimination to all peoples and to all men to whom God in His good pleasure sends the gospel, together with the command to repent and believe.

Article 6 - Why Some Do Not Believe
​

That, however, many who have been called by the gospel neither repent nor believe in Christ but perish in unbelief does not happen because of any defect or insufficiency in the sacrifice of Christ offered on the cross, but through their own fault.

Article 7 - Why Others Do Believe
​

But to those who truly believe and are by the death of Christ freed from their sins and saved from perdition, this benefit comes only through God’s grace, given to them from eternity in Christ. God owes this grace to no one.

Article 8 - The Efficacy of the Death of Christ
​

For this was the most free counsel of God the Father, that the life-giving and saving efficacy of the most precious death of His Son should extend to all the elect. It was His most gracious will and intent to give them alone justifying faith and thereby to bring them unfailingly to salvation. This means: God willed that Christ through the blood of the cross (by which He confirmed the new covenant) should effectually redeem out of every people, tribe, nation, and tongue all those, and those only, who were from eternity chosen to salvation and were given to Him by the Father. God further willed that Christ should give to them faith, which, together with other saving gifts of the Holy Spirit, He acquired for them by His death; that He should cleanse them by His blood from all sins, both original and actual, both those committed after faith and before faith; and that He should guard them faithfully to the end and at last present them to Himself in splendour without any spot or wrinkle.

 

[Reformationist]

How do you believe that you know you're saved?

A true, genuine desire for salvation in Christ is in fact a mark of election, and therefore none who truly come to Christ for salvation will be turned away (John 6:37-40).

I mean..I know you believe in pre-destination

ALL Christian denominations have a doctrine of predestination. They have to. It's taught in the Bible. They may not all agree but they all teach some form of predestination.

but will you even learn or show an interest in learning about Jesus if you're not of the elect?

The Word is much clearer on this point than I could be:

Romans 8:7
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.

1 Corinthians 1:18
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

God bless

 

[theseed]

We believe the same promise as everyone else. We just believe that the decision to place our faith in Jesus comes from the action of the Holy Spirit in us due to God's election, rather than from our own will.

I disagree, I say we are regenerated and the conviction of the Holy Spirit (at the same time?) creates a desire in us to want to go to Jesus and gives us the ability to hear.

 

[theseed]

but "He wishes that none shall parish" if its up to the holy sirit then would the holy spirit just pass a person by and let them go to hell?

No, the Holy Spriits conviction would be resisted because they were not regenerated. There hearts would hardened when they heard the word.

 

[LynneClomina]

I disagree, I say we are regenerated and the conviction of the Holy Spirit (at the same time?) creates a desire in us to want to go to Jesus and gives us the ability to hear.

i think you are basically saying the same thing. its called irresistable grace. he give us the desire for Him to choose Him, but He chose us first. and all ALL to whom he give that desire for Him DO choose Him. because He becomes the desire of our hearts. so yes, He chose us to choose Him, we love Him because He FIRST loved us.

 

[theseed]

Just as Adam and Eve hid from the Light (God) and did not seek God, so too do we not seek God unless he draws us. And he does this at least in part by causing us to be born from above/again (greek = anonthen). See John 3.

 

[LynneClomina]

Just as Adam and Eve hid from the Light (God) and did not seek God, so too do we not seek God unless he draws us. And he does this at least in part by causing us to be born from above/again (greek = anonthen). See John 3.

did you know the word "draw" in that verse is usually translated "drag"??? as in, "dragged into the kingdom kicking and screaming"????

 

[theseed]

did you know the word "draw" in that verse is usually translated "drag"??? as in, "dragged into the kingdom kicking and screaming"????

Can't say that I did. Did you know that the comic Calvin and Hobbs is named after John Calvin? It is according to www.wikipedia.com

 

[Reformationist]

did you know the word "draw" in that verse is usually translated "drag"??? as in, "dragged into the kingdom kicking and screaming"????

I don't think this is was your intention but, to clarify, draw/drag [helkuo] in that verse does not imply that we are "dragged into the Kingdom kicking and screaming."

God bless

 

[theseed]

I don't think this is was your intention but, to clarify, draw/drag [helkuo] in that verse does not imply that we are "dragged into the Kingdom kicking and screaming."

God bless

I figured she was kidding, in part. Calvinism does not go against free will, but say God uses man's power to change man's will, so he sees the truth.

 

[LynneClomina]

I figured she was kidding, in part. Calvinism does not go against free will, but say God uses man's power to change man's will, so he sees the truth.

yep.

we cant be like a bug going toward a light.... going on our own accord. we are BROUGHT into the kingdom. ie. it's not MY action, it's God's. the difference in in who is doing the moving.