Salvation and repentance

[Aussie Pete]

This is one of the problems with the gospel of faith plus works. Suddenly, instead of depending on God's faithfulness and the gospel's fullness, you are in a situation where your faith is dependent on your works. You are essentially saying, "You can be saved by believing in Jesus IF you can also do 10000 pushups. Suddenly, you are inspecting your feelings, your sincerity, your personal perfection, etc., etc. The addition of repentance from all sin essentially short-circuits the work of the gospel. Jesus said, "Be perfect as your Father in heaven..." I challenge those who preach successful repentance of all sin to say they did this: they achieved the perfection of the Father. It is like saying an infant can run a hundred-yard dash. Pre-salvation repentance from all sin is impossible. The purpose of the attempt is to show you that you cannot do it, and therefore, you must depend on faith and grace instead of the law and works. Those who claim successful pre-newbirth repentance are saying they did something God says they could not do. If they could successfully repent of all sin without the gospel, then they would be showing that they did not need to be saved by grace.
The solution is to believe in the death of Jesus for your sins, His burial, and His resurrection. You will be saved, and then God will begin working on your sanctification and maturity.

The problem with your point is twofold: First, God only saves sinners. That's why preaching the gospel is essential. The Holy Spirit uses God's word to convict of sin. Second, repentance is not a work. I don't know why you would think that. Statistics alone show that many have a "belief" that is mental and not in the heart. Billy Graham said that he would be delighted if 4% of those who "received" Christ were truly saved. Churches are packed with people who believe intellectually only. Repentance is a change of mind. God changes the heart - we are powerless to change ourselves.

I agree that repentance may be shallow and self serving. God does not care, as long as the person receives Christ. Many, as I was, are scared into the kingdom of God. Once God gives us a new nature, the transformation begins.

 

[timothyu]

Why would they be estranged from Jesus because of this, because Jesus taught Eternal Life is received by belief in Jesus and not by the law.

Yet the original Christians had no problem carrying on their synagogue based religious traditions while following Jesus. Neither did He actually.

 

[d taylor]

Yet the original Christians had no problem carrying on their synagogue based religious traditions while following Jesus. Neither did He actually.

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Carrying on synagogue religions do not give people God's free gift of Eternal Life and Jesus never said that it does. Jesus plainly states to receive Eternal Life a person must believe in Him (Jesus).

 

[timothyu]

So why did He attend? Was there a lunch?

 

[throughfiierytrial]

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Repentance is not a condition God has given to receive God's free gift of Eternal life (salvation). The only condition is belief in Jesus, believing that Jesus is who He said He is, The promised Messiah (Christ) which is the same as, The only begotten Son of God, the resurrection and the life. believe this and the believer receives God's free gift of Eternal Life.

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”

but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

Jesus, from the very beginning of His ministry, said...Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is near.
John's baptism was first initiated; it was a baptism of repentance. Repentance is necessary for salvation.
I John tells us if we say we have not sinned the truth is not within us.
Timothy says God is not willing that any should perish, but that all may come to repentance.
Only God knows the heart and what barriers exist to repentance as well as sincerity of repentance.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

So why did He attend? Was there a lunch?

He attended to preach to the lost.

 

[timothyu]

He attended to preach to the lost.

As was the custom in the Jewish synagogues

 

[Aussie Pete]

Yet the original Christians had no problem carrying on their synagogue based religious traditions while following Jesus. Neither did He actually.

And Peter clarified all that for the Gentiles. Read Acts 15. Gentile Christians were not required to observe Jewish customs. Jesus lived and ministered under the Old Covenant, not the New.

 

[d taylor]

Jesus, from the very beginning of His ministry, said...Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is near.
John's baptism was first initiated; it was a baptism of repentance. Repentance is necessary for salvation.
I John tells us if we say we have not sinned the truth is not within us.
Timothy says God is not willing that any should perish, but that all may come to repentance.
Only God knows the heart and what barriers exist to repentance as well as sincerity of repentance.

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Prove it "That repentance is a condition to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life" from The Gospel of John, the only book of The Bible whose stated purpose for being written is to tell people how to have life (Eternal Life salvation).

You stated: Jesus, from the very beginning of His ministry, said...Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is near.

The issue is the coming of the kingdom of God for the entire Nation of Israel living then.
For the kingdom to come, the Jewish nation must believe and be in fellowship with God. Hence the call to repentance and believing that the kingdom of God was at hand. To believe that it is at hand would likely mean that one would believe that Jesus is the King bringing in the kingdom. If someone believed that, he would likely come to believe Jesus’ promise of everlasting life to all who believe in Jesus (John 3:16)

 

[throughfiierytrial]

As was the custom in the Jewish synagogues

Perhaps the custom, but the leaders, Pharisees often, were corrupt. That was an offense spoken of even in O T
The bad shepherds leading the sheep astray.
Jesus said I have come for the lost people of Israel. etc

 

[d taylor]

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This thread and ones similar, show just how convoluted man has made the simple good news God has given humanity. On how to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life, by belief/faith in Jesus. No the sinful nature of man, the beauty and simplicity of belief in Jesus does not appeal to sinful man. They conclude belief in Jesus is not enough, they must add to belief (or skip belief all together) and repent, commit, obey, be baptized, etc.. and in the end hoping their efforts were good enough for God to judge them worthy to be rewarded eternal life.

What a sad state man has turned God's good news and free gift into, some prize to be won by a great effort.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

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Prove it "That repentance is a condition to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life" from The Gospel of John, the only book of The Bible whose stated purpose for being written is to tell people how to have life (Eternal Life salvation).

You stated: Jesus, from the very beginning of His ministry, said...Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is near.

The issue is the coming of the kingdom of God for the entire Nation of Israel living then.
For the kingdom to come, the Jewish nation must believe and be in fellowship with God. Hence the call to repentance and believing that the kingdom of God was at hand. To believe that it is at hand would likely mean that one would believe that Jesus is the King bringing in the kingdom. If someone believed that, he would likely come to believe Jesus’ promise of everlasting life to all who believe in Jesus (John 3:16)

I have proven it ! I cited passages..I'm on my phone so only from memory.
In Acts, also, Peter stood up and answered the people who realized they sinned and were cut to the heart asking, brothers what shall we do? Here Peter replies, repent and be baptized. Peter was commissioned by God.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

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This thread and ones similar, show just how convoluted man has made the simple good news God has given humanity. On how to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life, by belief/faith in Jesus. No the sinful nature of man, the beauty and simplicity of belief in Jesus does not appeal to sinful man. They conclude belief in Jesus is not enough, they must add to belief (or skip belief all together) and repent, commit, obey, be baptized, etc.. and in the end hoping their efforts were good enough for God to judge them worthy to be rewarded eternal life.

What a sad state man has turned God's good news and free gift into, some prize to be won by a great effort.

What is more sad and more apparent every day on earth with the rising factor of crime rate and sin, is that even Christians use the grace of our Savior as a license for immorality.

 

[d taylor]

I have proven it ! I cited passages..I'm on my phone so only from memory.
In Acts, also, Peter stood up and answered the people who realized they sinned and were cut to the heart asking, brothers what shall we do? Here Peter replies, repent and be baptized. Peter was commissioned by God.

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What verse from the Gospel of John proved that repentance is a condition God requires to receive Eternal Life. Post the verse or verses

 

[d taylor]

What is more sad and more apparent every day on earth with the rising factor of crime rate and sin, is that even Christians use the grace of our Savior as a license for immorality.

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So that is more sad than a person trusting in false ways to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life and ending up in the lake of fire for all of eternity, really!

 

[throughfiierytrial]

-​

This thread and ones similar, show just how convoluted man has made the simple good news God has given humanity. On how to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life, by belief/faith in Jesus. No the sinful nature of man, the beauty and simplicity of belief in Jesus does not appeal to sinful man. They conclude belief in Jesus is not enough, they must add to belief (or skip belief all together) and repent, commit, obey, be baptized, etc.. and in the end hoping their efforts were good enough for God to judge them worthy to be rewarded eternal life.

What a sad state man has turned God's good news and free gift into, some prize to be won by a great effort.

Here's a good example passage of proof for need of repentance...spoken by Jesus:

Yet I hold this against you: You have forsaken the love you had at first. 5 Consider how far you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place.
Revelation 2:4-5

 

[throughfiierytrial]

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What verse from the Gospel of John proved that repentance is a condition God requires to receive Eternal Life. Post the verse or verses

We Christians are commissioned not only to use the Gospel of John, but rather, as Jesus says: teach all nations whatsoever I have taught you.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

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So that is more sad than a person trusting in false ways to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life and ending up in the lake of fire for all of eternity, really!

Now you aren't even reasoning.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Now you aren't even reasoning.

If I repent I'm going to hell?

 

[throughfiierytrial]

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What verse from the Gospel of John proved that repentance is a condition God requires to receive Eternal Life. Post the verse or verses

Another proof passage...and there are so many but takes too much time to post all those I know.

2 Jesus answered, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? 3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. - Luke 13:2-3

46 He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things.
Luke 24:46-48

2 Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have found your deeds unfinished in the sight of my God. 3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; hold it fast, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.
Revelation 3:2-3

You cannot ignore Christ's teaching as a whole or ignore them...He commissioned all the 12 disciples and added Paul. All teachings, whatsoever He has commanded, are to be taken to to heart.

One remembers we as Christians are still in the flesh, but live by the Spirit and are to sow to please that Spirit. We still stumble and confess and repent as I John instructs.

There is also the issue of those living in ignorance when they die.
However, we live by God's Word in its entirety.

4 For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through the endurance taught in the Scriptures and the encouragement they provide we might have hope.

5 May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you the same attitude of mind toward each other that Christ Jesus had,
Romans 15:4-5