Saints

[praying]

Do you have to be Catholic to become a saint? Were there any non-Catholic saints?

 

[Michelina]

Sure: Abraham, Moses, Isaias, Elias, John the Baptist et alii.

Seriously: there have been no canonized nonCath "Saints", but there are plenty of nonCath saints in heaven.

 

[MattMMMan17]

Juan Diego was recently canonized.

 

[praying]

Sure: Abraham, Moses, Isaias, Elias, John the Baptist et alii.

Seriously: there have been no canonized nonCath "Saints", but there are plenty of nonCath saints in heaven.

What is the criteria for becoming a saint? Is there a basic set of rules? I

The reason I am asking these questions are

a) Because I am unfamiliar with the tenets of the Catholic church and

b) I think that Martin Luther King exemplified sainthood.

 

[Michelina]

What is the criteria for becoming a saint? Is there a basic set of rules?

THE CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

#828:By canonizing some of the faithful, i.e., by solemnly proclaiming that they practiced heroic virtue and lived in fidelity to God's grace, the Church recognizes the power of the Spirit of holiness within her and sustains the hope of believers by proposing the saints to them as models and intercessors. "The saints have always been the source and origin of renewal in the most difficult moments in the Church's history." Indeed, "holiness is the hidden source and infallible measure of her apostolic activity and missionary zeal."

I think that Martin Luther King exemplified sainthood.

He was certainly a martyr, imo. People can become 'saints' by martyrdom, which means someone is killed because he is a 'witness' (Greek word martyros means witness.) to the Gospel. I think that Rev. Dr. King fits that definition. I personally consider him a saint for that reason.

 

[pewrocker]

There is a movement in the church for sainthood for MLK.

 

[thereselittleflower]

There is a movement in the church for sainthood for MLK.

I am confused then . . my understanding is that he was an adulterer . .why would he be considered for canonization?


Peace in Him!

 

[praying]

I am confused then . . my understanding is that he was an adulterer . .why would he be considered for canonization?


Peace in Him!

That was fodder from J Edgar Hoover

 

[praying]

There is a movement in the church for sainthood for MLK.

Really, I think that would be great

 

[praying]

Juan Diego was recently canonized.

Who is Juan Diego?

 

[Benedicta00]

What is the criteria for becoming a saint? Is there a basic set of rules? I

The reason I am asking these questions are

a) Because I am unfamiliar with the tenets of the Catholic church and

b) I think that Martin Luther King exemplified sainthood.

And he just may be but the “funny” part is that non-Catholics would have to pray to him and receive a miracle from his intercession in order for him to be canonized and they don’t believe in that so why in the world do they want him canonized? It is against there own beliefs and secondly, part of being a saint is having this heroic faith in the Catholic Church

 

[MattMMMan17]

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/homilies/2002/documents/hf_jp-ii_hom_20020731_canonization-mexico_en.html

http://www.catholic.net/the_living_church/template_article.phtml?channel_id=5&article_id=410

 

[Benedicta00]

Matt,

Juan Diego was a Catholic convert wasn't he? I fail to see the relevance. MLK was not Catholic.

 

[MattMMMan17]

Shelb5,

I am unsure I haven't really done any research on the subject. I assume that if the Church as gone so far as to canonize the man she must have had good reason. I agree about MLK though. I heard rumors of adulterous activity but I truly don't know, so I'll keep away from that.

 

[Axion]

What is the criteria for becoming a saint? Is there a basic set of rules?

Basically there are two types of saints.
1) All true Christians on earth and in heaven are saints, through being part of the Body of Christ. All form One Body in Christ and share in each others troubles and joys. (1 Corinthians:12.12-27) All Christians in heaven and earth are part of the Communion of Saints, and can pray for one another.

2.) Canonised Saints. (Big S Saints). These are Christians who are now in heaven in the presence of God, and who we may therefore confidently ask to pray and intercede for us. Canonisation does not "make" a person a Saint, it is the process of placing them in the official Canon (list) that recognises them as being with God in heaven. This is why canonisation is an investigative process. The life and faith of the candidate is examined in great detail to see whether that person truly lived a Christian life and provides an excellent example to others. Proof of the effectiveness of their intercession is also sought in the form of validated miracles that can be attributed to their prayer on our behalf.

Not only Catholics become Canonised Saints, since the Eastern orthodox, Coptic, Armenian and Syriac Churches also have procedures to canonise Saints. The Anglican Church recognises many Catholic Saints created before they broke away, but has no process to canonise Saints of its own.

b) I think that Martin Luther King exemplified sainthood.

As some posters have said, Sainthood requires a godly lifestyle. I have no idea whether Pastor King meets this requirement or not. (I have not seen evidence that he doesn't.). But the main problem is whether he, as (I think), a Baptist , believed in Sainthood as understood by the Catholic Church? Baptists reject the Communion of Saints and the ancient teaching that the Heavenly Saints care about what we do, and can join in prayer for us. As such questions would arise as to whether Martin luther King would wish to be involved in the canonisation process. I don't think that is an absolute bar to recognising him as a Saint. (He's probably changed his opinion now ). But many people here on earth might not appreciate it.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Well, regarding Martin Luther King, there are several things I have read that would prevent me from supporting any move to declare him a saint . . yes, they were trying to dig up dirt on him, and from what I understand, they were able to find out where he was going to be in advance and planted bugs to record what went on in his hotel rooms, etc . . and it was in a hotel room where they recorded his adultery . . now, I have read this in serveral places, and not anti-King sites, so, unless someone can absolutely prove that this did not happen, it does present a problem for me . .

Also, I came across information concerning what he actually believed . . I don't know if I succeeded in book marking the site, but he did not hold to the Nicean Creed from all I could see . . that he was a man who did great things in not in doubt .. but that is not enough to start the process of canonization . . and from what I have found simply about his beliefs, there is no way he can be considered for sainthood . . unless everything I have read is wrong . .

He was humanistic in his approach to Christianity . . he did not believe in the Divine Sonship of Jesus, the Vrigin Birth or the Bodily Ressurction of Jesus . .

Here is one of his articles in which he discusses his views:

http://www.stanford.edu/group/King/publications/papers/vol1/491123-What_Experiences_of_Christians.htm

From here

http://www.stanford.edu/group/King/publications/papers/vol1/contents.htm

A site with a huge collection of his writings . .


We have to differentiate between what a "Saint" is in the eyes of the Church and the great things that a man can accomplish in this world for good . .and they are can be, and are, especially here, two different things . . He is a great man in the eyes of the world, that does not mean he is a Saint, or even great man, in the eyes of God. . .


Peace in Him!

 

[Polycarp1]

Not pertinent to Catholic doctrine, but as a courtesy, it should be noted that the Orthodox continued to canonize after the Great Schism. St. Herman of Alaska is patron of American Orthodox, and St. Tikhon, who worked in New York City, was recently recognized by the Episcopal Church. (We add exemplary Christians to the Calendar as optional commemorations -- Phillips Brooks, the great preacher (and for his last two years of life a bishop) who wrote "O Little Town of Bethlehem" is remembered next Friday, Jan. 23 -- but do not usually attach the "St." before their names as Catholics and Orthodox do.)

More importantly, the Saints of the Church have a ministry beyond the bounds of the Catholic Church as she is physically constituted. Francis of Assisi in particular touches the hearts and minds of Orthodox and Protestants who would never engage in the intercession of saints, but his holiness of life and ministry to all God's people and creatures touch an empty spot in their lives. My wife, I might note, is a life-professed member of the Third Order, Society of St. Francis in the Episcopal Church (which has friars in a First Order, "active" sisters in a companion Community of St. Francis, and which recently celebrated the going on to glory of the last of the Poor Clares of Reparation in the Episcopal Church -- with professed celibate Catholic Tertiaries in community, probably the closest parallel is to the Secular Franciscans in Catholicism -- they and the T.S.S.F. preserve what Francis originally intended the Third Order to be).

 

[prodromos]

There are some groups and individuals (and individual churches) who seem to have taken it upon themselves to determine who can be declared a saint (something we Orthodox leave up to God to reveal). Unfortunately they seem intent on making a mockery of all things holy. Consider the icon below

which attempts to ride on the coat tails of Orthodox iconography, even going as far as using Greek for "saint" Martin's name .

Saint Gregory's Episcopal church in San Francisco takes this particular ball and runs with it. No telling where they will stop.

http://godsfriends.org/Vol8/No2/Dancing_Saints.html

http://www.saintgregorys.org/Icons/Sept2001/Tour.html

Charles Darwin is a saint? Origen? Malcolm X . You'll find Ghandi and Shakespeare up there too.

No further comment.

John.

 

[Axion]

I love this one from the site:

ELIZABETH I+
(1533-1603) Queen of England. When much of Europe was torn by bloody warfare over disputed points of Christian doctrine, heresy trials and religious purges, Elizabeth conceived a Church in which people of diverse beliefs, opinions and doctrines could be one through shared prayer and Eucharist. She used her power to forge religious peace on this new principle.

Torturing and disembowelling thousands of Catholics was clearly part of this "religious peace."

 

[praying]

It sounds like he should not be based on Catholic doctrine, which I have no problem with.

One poster noted distingquishing between "what a "Saint" is in the eyes of the Church and the great things that a man can accomplish in this world for good" which is probably correct.

It is funny I have never even thought of MLK on his spiritual terms, to say what he believed in terms of the Bible and church practice, I guess I have been "blinded" by what no doubt was his great influence in the civil rights arena.

This has sparked a need for me to discover his spirituality if possible.