saints of this and that (moved from GT)

[cyberlizard]

I know this thread will be contentious, but I will ask it anyway.

In the area of professions and the like, some professions have a patron saint that oversees their workers.

Is this, in truth, no different from the pagan concept of household gods?


Steve

 

[Catherineanne]

I know this thread will be contentious, but I will ask it anyway.

In the area of professions and the like, some professions have a patron saint that oversees their workers.

Is this, in truth, no different from the pagan concept of household gods?


Steve

In one sense. The Lares and Penates were household spirits, not gods.

The saints are not gods either, but neither are they household spirits, so the comparison does not really stand on either count.

I do hope that helps.

 

[Rhamiel]

St.Brendan had a lot of trips by boat, so sailors pray to him because he has a connection to what they are doing

kinda like in many Protestant churches there are mens share groups or womens share groups or young adult share groups
these people know what you have been though and how to be more christ-like in that particular field

 

[sunlover1]

St.Brendan had a lot of trips by boat, so sailors pray to him because he has a connection to what they are doing

kinda like in many Protestant churches there are mens share groups or womens share groups or young adult share groups
these people know what you have been though and how to be more christ-like in that particular field

(LOVE your new name!)

Jesus had a lot of boat trips too!
I don't bother with St Christopher
(Mom had a statue on her dashboard...)
I can't muster up any faith to do that.

Anyhow
Faith in God is rewarded!
Faith in men is frowned upon.
So ... sup with that?
*shrugs

 

[ivebeenshown]

Anyhow
Faith in God is rewarded!
Faith in men is frowned upon.
So ... sup with that?
*shrugs

Is it frowned upon for a child to ask his parents for advice or help, or for a teenager to ask his teacher for counsel? Or did God not set some in the Church to be teachers and helpers and guides?

 

[zaksmummy]

Is it frowned upon for a child to ask his parents for advice or help, or for a teenager to ask his teacher for counsel? Or did God not set some in the Church to be teachers and helpers and guides?

But they are dead. Scripture tells us not to commune with the dead.

 

[ivebeenshown]

But they are dead. Scripture tells us not to commune with the dead.

Nobody who is in Christ can rightly be called 'dead'.

No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[cyberlizard]

semantics... they are not allowed to cross the boundary between this life and the life to come.


Steve

 

[princess_ballet]

staff edit

No one claims that a saint has saved them from a ship wreck. The prayers (meaning: to talk) is simply asking for the saints to pray to the Lord and ask Him to help. Just as you would ask a friend or family member (or CF member) to pray for you.

 

[Lion King]

No one claims that a saint has saved them from a ship wreck. The prayers (meaning: to talk) is simply asking for the saints to pray to the Lord and ask Him to help. Just as you would ask a friend or family member (or CF member) to pray for you.

I would never ask a dead person to pray for me. See, you can technical with the word "pray" all you wish, but that doesn't change the fact that the LORD instructed us to pray only to Him. You'll never find anyone in Scripture praying to dead people like Abraham, Jacob, David etc (although they are alive in Christ). NEVER!

Can I ask you a question: did you ever have any concerns in the beginning regarding this sort of practice?

 

[Dorothea]

semantics... they are not allowed to cross the boundary between this life and the life to come.


Steve

There is no boundary for us, you see. Christ tore the veil in the Temple from Top to Bottom. Christ's Body is not separated. There is no division in His Body. We are always One through the spirit - the Holy Spirit.

 

[Dorothea]

I would never ask a dead person to pray for me. See, you can technical with the word "pray" all you wish, but that doesn't change the fact that the LORD instructed us to pray only to Him. You'll never find anyone in Scripture praying to dead people like Abraham, Jacob, David etc (although they are alive in Christ). NEVER!

Can I ask you a question: did you ever have any concerns in the beginning regarding this sort of practice?

We are to pray for one another. St. Paul says so and so does St. James.

I'm sorry you consider those alive in Christ, dead. Does this mean He didn't conquer death?

 

[Lion King]

We are to pray for one another. St. Paul says so and so does St. James.

I'm sorry you consider those alive in Christ, dead. Does this mean He didn't conquer death?

Pray for and not to one another. You would do well to remember that.

Christ knows those who are alive in Him, you dont (except those written in Scripture already, but this does not give anyone license to "talk" to them). Pray to the LORD only, nobody else.

 

[Sarcalogos Deus]

I would never ask a dead person to pray for me. See, you can technical with the word "pray" all you wish, but that doesn't change the fact that the LORD instructed us to pray only to Him. You'll never find anyone in Scripture praying to dead people like Abraham, Jacob, David etc (although they are alive in Christ). NEVER!

Can I ask you a question: did you ever have any concerns in the beginning regarding this sort of practice?

I always find your posts amusing, but that may be because I read them in an evil villain voice.

 

[Bryne]

Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God. - Hebrews 12:1-2


Who is this great cloud of witnesses? Read Hebrews 11 and you will see. This great cloud of witnesses who went before us are there to encourage us in the faith by their example. And this list is not intended to be inclusive...in fact, the author says that he could go on, but if he tried to mention everyone, time would fail him.

And since that book was written, we have many many more witnesses to the faith to look to for encouragement. If I have a child who had gone astray, I can look to Saint Monica, who prayed for her son faithfully...never giving up hope. If I am a nurse, I can look at the example of a saint who was a nurse. Or, perhaps I am just inspired by the story that a saint has...such as Saint Patrick.

One doesn't have to seek intersession from these saints to be blessed by their witness.

 

[Rhamiel]

Can I ask you a question: did you ever have any concerns in the beginning regarding this sort of practice?

I was never really comfrotable praying to saints
I would sometimes, very rarely ask the Blessed Mother or the archangel Michael for prayers but it was not a common thing and I felt kinda weird doing it
it was more a desperation play then anything else
I was not a very good christian at this time

then I started praying the rosary more
that led to wanting to go to confession more
that led to me reading the bible daily
that led to asking the saints to pray for me

I normaly ask for St.John the Baptist my Guardian Angel(and the guardian angels of my friends and family), St.Michael and St.Raphael the archangels and the Virgin Mary to pray for me
sometimes I add St.Valentine, St.Maria Goretti, St.Jude, St.George, St.Francis of Assisi, St.John Chrysostom and St. Joseph
I used to always have all these saints in my daily prayers

 

[Sarcalogos Deus]

I was never really comfrotable praying to saints
I would sometimes, very rarely ask the Blessed Mother or the archangel Michael for prayers but it was not a common thing and I felt kinda weird doing it
it was more a desperation play then anything else
I was not a very good christian at this time

then I started praying the rosary more
that led to wanting to go to confession more
that led to me reading the bible daily
that led to asking the saints to pray for me

I normaly ask for St.John the Baptist my Guardian Angel(and the guardian angels of my friends and family), St.Michael and St.Raphael the archangels and the Virgin Mary to pray for me
sometimes I add St.Valentine, St.Maria Goretti, St.Jude, St.George, St.Francis of Assisi, St.John Chrysostom and St. Joseph
I used to always have all these saints in my daily prayers

Saint George is the main Saint I ask to pray for me (I was baptized and confirmed on his feast day). But my other favorites are Saint Moses the Black and the Blessed Virgin..

 

[daydreamergurl15]

A Saint in the Old Testament was consider God's people.
A Saint in the New Testament is considered God's people.
I will never understand why people felt the need to create a sainthood. I'll stick with the definition given in scripture.

 

[Frogster]

But they are dead. Scripture tells us not to commune with the dead.

It is all rewally kinda spooky, talking to dead people. Mary is dead too.

She was and Adamite.

 

[Frogster]

There is no boundary for us, you see. Christ tore the veil in the Temple from Top to Bottom. Christ's Body is not separated. There is no division in His Body. We are always One through the spirit - the Holy Spirit.

With all due respect, the veil theme you have chosen really does not apply. That is for living men, to be connected with God, it really is not about talking to the departed having conversations with us. Thanks.