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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Saddam Captured
- Thread starter The Story Teller
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I think you mean "emergency medical treatment".ddlewis86 said:
Hospitals and physicians have every right to refuse non-emergency medical treatment to someone with whom they don't have a prior relationship.
more to the point: if you believe that no one in America lacks access to basic health care, how exactly do you think the uninsured poor are paying for it (non-emergency medical procedures)?
This is a good recent article on those who can't afford basic medical insurance.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1077230,00.html
what exactly does "anti-American" mean to you? Whatever you happen to disagree with?
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Go to any "emergency room" in any city and you will see people lined up with colds, aches, pains, etc..... They are not asked for payment prior to being assisted. I don't need to read a UK article on US healthcare.datan said:
I live with it thank you very much. People are not truned away at the door. It's no big secret that free health care is available at the emergency room. There are also clinics all over this country that are sponsored and funded by charity groups and organizations. I have 3 deifferent friends of mine that work for two seperate pharmaceutical companies. These companies also have programs for FREE, thats right, FREE prescription drugs. I work for a company with a division that services physicians "specifically". If you listen to the media and liberal left in this country and then listen to the healthcare workers, you will think you live in two different countries. Follow the money. Of course the insurance companies are going to be looking for assistance in paying medical bills. They are going to assist in perpetuating the rumor that there are Americans without coverage. This leads one to believe that there Americans that aren't recieving health care. Actually they are recieving healthcare. YOUR (or American's insurance companies) insurance company is paying for them! That is WHY a Tylenol is billed to your (or our) insurance company at $50.00 per tablet when YOU get sick. Think about it. Who benefits the MOST from government assisted health care? Insurance companies. OH------and the democrats that use it as a "fear" tactic to get elected.
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ok...
but what about more serious illnesses (which can't be solved by prescription drugs) such as say cancer, surgery, etc?
I'm not talking about elective or cosmetic surgery, but something needed to maintain a minium quality of life. How does that factor in?
but what about more serious illnesses (which can't be solved by prescription drugs) such as say cancer, surgery, etc?
I'm not talking about elective or cosmetic surgery, but something needed to maintain a minium quality of life. How does that factor in?
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datan said:
County hospitals are designated for this type of situation. In every county there are hospitals that are designated as "county".
If it is a life threatening situation, in the United States of America, you cannot be refused medical service for any reason.
There are signs in every emergency room, that I have been in, that disclose this policy.
Where it is the responsibility of the patient to make every attempt to pay for services it is more the responsiblity of the health care facility to find a way to keep itself in business while not violating the law. Refusing medical care in a life threatening situation is a violation of the law. In my personal opinion, based upon "moral" standards, it would also be a violation of the physician's "hypocritical oath". This is the way it has been explained to me anyway.
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burrow_owl
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with emergency room aid, no one will follow up with you - you can get diagnosed, and you'll probably get a prescription, but filling the prescriptions and going to the doctor to whom you've been referred is going to cost mucho dollars.
the 'life-threatening situation' policy just isn't applicable to something like cancer, which kills you slowly - for a heart attack, you can probably get free health care, but not certainly not for cancer. So the moral to be had from this, I suppose, is that the uninsured better hope for a heart attack before they get cancer?
not much of a system.
the 'life-threatening situation' policy just isn't applicable to something like cancer, which kills you slowly - for a heart attack, you can probably get free health care, but not certainly not for cancer. So the moral to be had from this, I suppose, is that the uninsured better hope for a heart attack before they get cancer?
not much of a system.
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alonesoldier
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I think you better re-read BOTH posts before you state I am confusing the issue. In one post I state:Dalexsi said:
and in the next post I state:
Please explain to me how that is a CHANGE in my thought OR confuses the issue? Maybe you should read a bit slower. Just a suggestion before YOU start "spouting off".
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How did we get to this point anyway? 
I thought this was a thread about the capture of Saddam. Let's talk about whether or not it's a waste of money to go back to the moon.
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alonesoldier
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Terrorist behind September 11 strike was trained by Saddam
By Con Coughlin
(Filed: 14/12/2003)
Iraq's coalition government claims that it has uncovered documentary proof that Mohammed Atta, the al-Qaeda mastermind of the September 11 attacks against the US, was trained in Baghdad by Abu Nidal, the notorious Palestinian terrorist.
Details of Atta's visit to the Iraqi capital in the summer of 2001, just weeks before he launched the most devastating terrorist attack in US history, are contained in a top secret memo written to Saddam Hussein, the then Iraqi president, by Tahir Jalil Habbush al-Tikriti, the former head of the Iraqi Intelligence Service.
The handwritten memo, a copy of which has been obtained exclusively by the Telegraph, is dated July 1, 2001 and provides a short resume of a three-day "work programme" Atta had undertaken at Abu Nidal's base in Baghdad.
In the memo, Habbush reports that Atta "displayed extraordinary effort" and demonstrated his ability to lead the team that would be "responsible for attacking the targets that we have agreed to destroy".
The second part of the memo, which is headed "Niger Shipment", contains a report about an unspecified shipment - believed to be uranium - that it says has been transported to Iraq via Libya and Syria.
Although Iraqi officials refused to disclose how and where they had obtained the document, Dr Ayad Allawi, a member of Iraq's ruling seven-man Presidential Committee, said the document was genuine.
"We are uncovering evidence all the time of Saddam's involvement with al-Qaeda," he said. "But this is the most compelling piece of evidence that we have found so far. It shows that not only did Saddam have contacts with al-Qaeda, he had contact with those responsible for the September 11 attacks."
Although Atta is believed to have been resident in Florida in the summer of 2001, he is known to have used more than a dozen aliases, and intelligence experts believe he could easily have slipped out of the US to visit Iraq.
Abu Nidal, who was responsible for the failed assassination of the Israeli ambassador to London in 1982, was based in Baghdad for more than two decades.
[url="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2003%2F12%2F14%2Fwterr14.xml"]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2003%2F12%2F14%2Fwterr14.xml[/url]
By Con Coughlin
(Filed: 14/12/2003)
Iraq's coalition government claims that it has uncovered documentary proof that Mohammed Atta, the al-Qaeda mastermind of the September 11 attacks against the US, was trained in Baghdad by Abu Nidal, the notorious Palestinian terrorist.
Details of Atta's visit to the Iraqi capital in the summer of 2001, just weeks before he launched the most devastating terrorist attack in US history, are contained in a top secret memo written to Saddam Hussein, the then Iraqi president, by Tahir Jalil Habbush al-Tikriti, the former head of the Iraqi Intelligence Service.
The handwritten memo, a copy of which has been obtained exclusively by the Telegraph, is dated July 1, 2001 and provides a short resume of a three-day "work programme" Atta had undertaken at Abu Nidal's base in Baghdad.
In the memo, Habbush reports that Atta "displayed extraordinary effort" and demonstrated his ability to lead the team that would be "responsible for attacking the targets that we have agreed to destroy".
The second part of the memo, which is headed "Niger Shipment", contains a report about an unspecified shipment - believed to be uranium - that it says has been transported to Iraq via Libya and Syria.
Although Iraqi officials refused to disclose how and where they had obtained the document, Dr Ayad Allawi, a member of Iraq's ruling seven-man Presidential Committee, said the document was genuine.
"We are uncovering evidence all the time of Saddam's involvement with al-Qaeda," he said. "But this is the most compelling piece of evidence that we have found so far. It shows that not only did Saddam have contacts with al-Qaeda, he had contact with those responsible for the September 11 attacks."
Although Atta is believed to have been resident in Florida in the summer of 2001, he is known to have used more than a dozen aliases, and intelligence experts believe he could easily have slipped out of the US to visit Iraq.
Abu Nidal, who was responsible for the failed assassination of the Israeli ambassador to London in 1982, was based in Baghdad for more than two decades.
[url="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2003%2F12%2F14%2Fwterr14.xml"]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2003%2F12%2F14%2Fwterr14.xml[/url]
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burrow_owl
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alonesoldier
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Cardinal Says U.S. Treated Saddam 'Like a Cow'
2 hours, 56 minutes ago Add World - Reuters to My Yahoo!
By Philip Pullella
VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - A top Vatican (news - web sites) official said Tuesday he felt pity and compassion for Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) and criticized the U.S. military for showing video footage of him being treated "like a cow."
Cardinal Renato Martino, head of the Vatican's Justice and Peace department and a former papal envoy to the United Nations (news - web sites), told a news conference it would be "illusory" to think the arrest of the former Iraqi president would heal all the damage caused by a war which the Holy See opposed.
"I felt pity to see this man destroyed, (the military) looking at his teeth as if he were a cow. They could have spared us these pictures," he said.
"Seeing him like this, a man in his tragedy, despite all the heavy blame he bears, I had a sense of compassion for him," he said in answer to questions about Saddam's arrest.
Martino was referring to the videotape released by the U.S. military which showed a grubby, bearded and disheveled Saddam receiving a medical examination by a military doctor after his capture in an underground hole Saturday.
Martino was one of the Vatican officials most strongly opposed to the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq (news - web sites).
"It's true that we should be happy that this (arrest) has come about because it is the watershed that was necessary... we hope that this will not have worse and other serious consequences," Martino said.
"But it is not the total solution to the problems of the Middle East," he said.
Martino said the Vatican hoped the arrest of Saddam "can contribute to promoting peace and the democratization of Iraq."
He added: "But is seems to me to be illusory to hope that this will repair the dramas and the damage of the defeat for humanity that a war always brings about."
The Vatican did not consider the war in Iraq "a just war" because it was not backed by the United Nations and because the Vatican believed more negotiations were necessary to avoid it.
Martino said the Vatican wanted an "appropriate institution" to put Saddam on trial but he did not elaborate.
U.S. forces were keeping the ousted 66-year-old dictator at a secret location for interrogation before he is put on trial in the months ahead. He could face the death penalty.
The news conference was called for Martino to present the World Day of Peace message, in which Pope John Paul (news - web sites) took a swipe at the United States for invading Iraq without the backing of the United Nations.
2 hours, 56 minutes ago Add World - Reuters to My Yahoo!
By Philip Pullella
VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - A top Vatican (news - web sites) official said Tuesday he felt pity and compassion for Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) and criticized the U.S. military for showing video footage of him being treated "like a cow."
Cardinal Renato Martino, head of the Vatican's Justice and Peace department and a former papal envoy to the United Nations (news - web sites), told a news conference it would be "illusory" to think the arrest of the former Iraqi president would heal all the damage caused by a war which the Holy See opposed.
"I felt pity to see this man destroyed, (the military) looking at his teeth as if he were a cow. They could have spared us these pictures," he said.
"Seeing him like this, a man in his tragedy, despite all the heavy blame he bears, I had a sense of compassion for him," he said in answer to questions about Saddam's arrest.
Martino was referring to the videotape released by the U.S. military which showed a grubby, bearded and disheveled Saddam receiving a medical examination by a military doctor after his capture in an underground hole Saturday.
Martino was one of the Vatican officials most strongly opposed to the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq (news - web sites).
"It's true that we should be happy that this (arrest) has come about because it is the watershed that was necessary... we hope that this will not have worse and other serious consequences," Martino said.
"But it is not the total solution to the problems of the Middle East," he said.
Martino said the Vatican hoped the arrest of Saddam "can contribute to promoting peace and the democratization of Iraq."
He added: "But is seems to me to be illusory to hope that this will repair the dramas and the damage of the defeat for humanity that a war always brings about."
The Vatican did not consider the war in Iraq "a just war" because it was not backed by the United Nations and because the Vatican believed more negotiations were necessary to avoid it.
Martino said the Vatican wanted an "appropriate institution" to put Saddam on trial but he did not elaborate.
U.S. forces were keeping the ousted 66-year-old dictator at a secret location for interrogation before he is put on trial in the months ahead. He could face the death penalty.
The news conference was called for Martino to present the World Day of Peace message, in which Pope John Paul (news - web sites) took a swipe at the United States for invading Iraq without the backing of the United Nations.
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alonesoldier said:
Thanks for the Anti-Catholic Jibe at the end there Soldier boy. I wonder will the Mods notice...?
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True. I wonder if the Republican Catholics here like Wolsley or Michael(Pariah) will slap him on the wrist....
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alonesoldier
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