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Sacrifice not the only method of atonement

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winslow

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He didnt fulfill the conditions of the messiah. he didnt usher in a time of universal peace, he did not rebuild the 3rd temple and he was not from the tribe of judah.That my friend means in no uncertain terms that he is not the Jewish Messiah. sorry.

Mat 1:1 The Book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ the Son of David, the son of Abraham:
Mat 1:2 Abraham fathered Isaac, and Isaac fathered Jacob, and Jacob fathered Judah and his brothers.
Mat 1:16 and Jacob fathered Joseph, the husband to be of Mary, out of whom Jesus was born, the One called Christ.

According to scripture He was from the tribe of Judah.

He didn't fulfill all that was prophesied of the messiah at the first coming, some of the prophecies point to His second coming.

That is one reason the Jews rejected Him when He came. They had the prophecies but didn't understand their would be a gulf fixed before all the prophecies would be fulfilled.
 
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djconklin

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Paul makes no deal out of the word virgin, not once did Paul say a thing on it. NOT saying this is untrue. But the Apostle himself transfers the espousal of a virgin to the many (to them) and relates to Christ being made of a woman under the law.

I have never heard of any scholar in the field say that Paul "transferred" the virgin birth of Christ to anything. That Paul didn't write it down doesn't mean that he never taught it. He was in Corinth for 3 years and yet we don't have his sermons. Secondly, most of Paul's letters had to deal with some crisis within the church. Since there wasn't any contest over Christ's birth it is quite natural that he shouldn't say anything about it.
 
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djconklin

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Originally Posted by djconklin
I am sorry, but while it is true that there is no precise one-to-one correspondance between the Hebrew and English (actually between any two languages) it is not true that the English Bibles have "lots of passages" that are in error. Scholars of the Judeo-Christian religion have studied this subject for literally decades and have found no major difference between the MT and the OT in the English. Anyone who has told you otherwise didn't know what they are talking about. Scholars consult Hebrew-English lexicons (in some cases written by Jews) in order to get at the proper meaning of the texts that they are examining/translating (that's how we learned how to translate Hebrew when we were in the Seminary or preparing for it.).


who talkin about English to English, I'm talkin Hebrew to Greek and then English. there are a number of differences which nobody can deny.

1) Since I explicitly said "no precise one-to-one correspondance between the Hebrew and English" I have no idea where you got the idea about English to English.

2) The English translations of the OT are based on the Masoretic text and not the LXX.
 
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simonjandrews

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Mat 1:1 The Book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ the Son of David, the son of Abraham:
Mat 1:2 Abraham fathered Isaac, and Isaac fathered Jacob, and Jacob fathered Judah and his brothers.
Mat 1:16 and Jacob fathered Joseph, the husband to be of Mary, out of whom Jesus was born, the One called Christ.

According to scripture He was from the tribe of Judah.

He didn't fulfill all that was prophesied of the messiah at the first coming, some of the prophecies point to His second coming.

That is one reason the Jews rejected Him when He came. They had the prophecies but didn't understand their would be a gulf fixed before all the prophecies would be fulfilled.

To be A Jew, your mother has to be a Jew, which Mary was.Ok so far......but your tribe is gotton from you Farther and so Jesus was of Virgin Birth, meaning Joseph was not his parent and therefor did not recieve a tribal heritage and so he is 100% not from the tribe of Judah as tribe is not transfered down the female line.

Further more, nowhere in the Torah does it say that the moshiac will come twice.This is an invention written into the greek testament to try to overlook the things that j-sus did not fulfill.
 
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simonjandrews

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1) Since I explicitly said "no precise one-to-one correspondance between the Hebrew and English" I have no idea where you got the idea about English to English.

2) The English translations of the OT are based on the Masoretic text and not the LXX.

if you think that there is no mistranslations then you cannot read/have no knowledge oh hebrew.
 
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Fireinfolding

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I have never heard of any scholar in the field say that Paul "transferred" the virgin birth of Christ to anything. That Paul didn't write it down doesn't mean that he never taught it. He was in Corinth for 3 years and yet we don't have his sermons. Secondly, most of Paul's letters had to deal with some crisis within the church. Since there wasn't any contest over Christ's birth it is quite natural that he shouldn't say anything about it.

Sorry I missed that you quoted me here^_^

Look at this, the ONE (Mary) is speaking to THE MANY

Luke 2:35 (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) ~that~ the thoughts of ~many hearts~ may be revealed.

Jesus redefined His mother (brother, and sister) after the spiritual nature of what God would do in Christ through HER (even as) a TYPE.

Mat 12:47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.

Mat 12:48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?

Mat 12:49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said,~Behold~ my mother and my brethren!

1Cr 15:1 Shows the gospel He preached wherein he makes no mention of the virgin birth though he does speak of THEM being espoused as a virgin to Christ.

When Paul speaks to the redemption in Christ He likens it to the Son made of ~A Woman~ (singularly) made under the law. But the verse right afterward follows the same Patern (as shown above)

Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his ~Son~, made of ~a woman~, made under the law,

The ONE speaks to what God is doing IN THE MANY...

Gal 4:5 To redeem ~them~ that were under the law, that ~we~ might receive the adoption of ~sons~.


Paul follows the same wording as shown in the pictures after the same spiritual truths they represent. He had the LIGHT of the gospel, knew the mystery of it (as it pertained to Christ in us). Not in letter but in SPIRIT as the SPIRIT is TRUTH.

Luke 1:27 To a virgin ~espoused~ to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.


2Cr 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have ~espoused you~ to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

The Woman (with child) "under the law" was to be redeemed from the law. Paul speaks of being led by the Spirit (Sons) and not under the law IF they were LED of the Spirit of Christ in them.

Jesus speaks to his very own disciples (my mother and brethren) about a Woman being delivered OF a CHILD. I see these as spiritual truths that play ib everywhere (regarding US). Mary answers TO THEM and in relation to Christ formed IN THEM.

Mat 1:18 When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

The same goes for those AS A CHILD or WITH CHILD mere carnal BABES in Christ. The EARNEST verses the ADOPTION and its AS SONS...

Thats why its written.... UNTO US A CHILD is BORN but a SON IS GIVEN, its prophetic in nature speaking of God WITH US.

John 16:21 A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is ~delivered of~ the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world.

Jesus transfers the birthing to His disciples (my mother, brethrren) as THE ONE speaks to THE MANY. They TOO needed to be DELIVERED OF THE CHILD (Carnal BABE) and receive the ADOPTION OF SONS that they be LED BY The SPIRIT. That WE BE NO MORE CHILDREN but SONS.

Thats what Paul was saying in regards to a Child differing nothing from a servant, he owns the WHOLE ESTATE but has an APPOINTED TIME, thats the FULNESS of times in regards to our very own coming into SONSHIP.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

The CHILD and the MAN

1Cr 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

So yeah I have a different look at these things as I do not see the apostles put such weight on things men today seem to. But you can see how Paul took the chaste virgin and applies it to "them" (the many) he laboured with concerning Christ being formed in THEM. He as John the baptist was as a freind of the bridegroom waiting till Christ be formed in them that they might FOLLOW HIM. These speak to our own walks not some carnal things.

In saying that is NOT saying I do not believe those things which not be of the flesh. I thus regard them now after the Spirit wherein the living God established this order. It says we once knew Christ after the flesh we are not to know man nor Him after the flesh no more.

Anyway, I could go on here but I see great relevance in these things for US and the representatives speak of lively truths for US today as they were so yesterday.

I do see these things transfered to His disciples, God shows a picture and it speaks to something else. Thats why Paul would say, "this ANSWERETH to" THIS and that ANSWERETH to THIS"

These things intimately speak to us.

Basically, His words are LIFE :thumbsup:

Peace

Fireinfolding
 
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