Sacrifice not the only method of atonement

[simonjandrews]

Most christians Iknow believe that there had to be the shedding of blood for the forgiveness of sins I.e animal sacrifice and then Christ on the cross.However this is not true in every sence.
Most animal sacrifices in Torah were either a praise offering or a sacrifice was made for unintentional Sin.

There were a great number of Jews who were caught up in the sacrificial system! This is why King David said in Psalm 40 v 6 in a christian and v 7 In the Jewish bible

" Sacrifices you did not desire, Burnt offerings you have not required"

This was changed in the Greek Testament in Heb ch 10v11( either by somebody who was trying to mislead people or who did not understand Hebrew)

Heb 10:5 Wherefore1352 when he cometh1525 into1519 the3588 world,2889 he saith,3004 Sacrifice2378 and2532 offering4376 thou wouldest2309 not,3756 but1161 a body4983 hast thou prepared2675 me:3427
Heb 10:6 In burnt offerings3646 and2532 sacrifices for4012 sin266 thou hast had no pleasure.2106, 3756

A Body!!! where does it say that in the Torah! in fact human sacrifice is forbidden. How you Play with the Bible!

InTorah there is 3 methods of obtianing forgiveness the main ne being repentance.

This is why David said (2 Sam 12v13) "I have sinned before Hashem"

Nathan then says "HaShem hath forgiven you already.You shall not die" but his child to Uriah was striken and died.

There is no shedding of Blood! there is no mention of Jesus. Why is this? because the animal sacrifice is for unintentional sin.... this is where christians have got caught up in a distorted sacrificial system.

Psalm 51 says " Rescue me from the Blood Guilt"

"You desire no offering or I would offer it."

There Does not need to be a sacrifice! Hosea 3v4-5
Jews will be many days without a King or a sacrifice and Priesthood until the end of dayswill occur until they return unto HaShem!

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

Where there is alot of misconception is that forgiveness and grace has always existed before Yeshua.

A huge misconception to say there was the law now there is grace.

Why did He die for us?

Marc

 

[Lisa0315]

Most christians Iknow believe that there had to be the shedding of blood for the forgiveness of sins I.e animal sacrifice and then Christ on the cross.However this is not true in every sence.
Most animal sacrifices in Torah were either a praise offering or a sacrifice was made for unintentional Sin.

There were a great number of Jews who were caught up in the sacrificial system! This is why King David said in Psalm 40 v 6 in a christian and v 7 In the Jewish bible

" Sacrifices you did not desire, Burnt offerings you have not required"

This was changed in the Greek Testament in Heb ch 10v11( either by somebody who was trying to mislead people or who did not understand Hebrew)

Heb 10:5 Wherefore1352 when he cometh1525 into1519 the3588 world,2889 he saith,3004 Sacrifice2378 and2532 offering4376 thou wouldest2309 not,3756 but1161 a body4983 hast thou prepared2675 me:3427
Heb 10:6 In burnt offerings3646 and2532sacrifices for4012 sin266 thou hast had no pleasure.2106, 3756

A Body!!! where does it say that in the Torah! in fact human sacrifice is forbidden. How you Play with the Bible!

InTorah there is 3 methods of obtianing forgiveness the main ne being repentance.

This is why David said (2 Sam 12v13) "I have sinned before Hashem"

Nathan then says "HaShem hath forgiven you already.You shall not die" but his child to Uriah was striken and died.

There is no shedding of Blood! there is no mention of Jesus. Why is this? because the animal sacrifice is for unintentional sin.... this is where christians have got caught up in a distorted sacrificial system.

Psalm 51 says " Rescue me from the Blood Guilt"

"You desire no offering or I would offer it."

There Does not need to be a sacrifice! Hosea 3v4-5
Jews will be many days without a King or a sacrifice and Priesthood until the end of dayswill occur until they return unto HaShem!

I want to make sure I understand you correctly. Are you saying Jesus died in vain?

Lisa

 

[simonjandrews]

I suppose I am Lisa 0315(no offence intended), If there is not only forgiveness through the shedding of blood then why the death of Christ?

 

[simonjandrews]

Where there is alot of misconception is that forgiveness and grace has always existed before Yeshua.

A huge misconception to say there was the law now there is grace.

Why did He die for us?

Marc

Sorry I do not fully understand your question?

 

[Fireinfolding]

I dont think its being looked correctly. These things as "shadows" but are taken more after the letter.

David being forgiven (as he was) but His child (which died) and after the number of "Seven days" is a type which silently speaks to Christ.

UNTO us a CHILD is born UNTO us a SON is given is very prophetic in nature as well and these things are hard to understand.

David might have been forgiven but for the child to die is a violation of Duet 24:16

Duet 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

The Child represents Christ as it was Him who was made sin but who knew no sin. Reference to the Lamb that was slain before the foundation of the world are found in various pictures such as these.

Its not a violation if Christ who is the Word made flesh is the one the child represents in this picture. Especially in regards to Davids sin.

Peace

Fireinfolding

 

[Lisa0315]

I suppose I am Lisa 0315(no offence intended), If there is not only forgiveness through the shedding of blood then why the death of Christ?

I take no offense, but I would be very, very careful preaching this doctrine. It is against every bit of scholarship to be had since 33AD. You will be held accountable for misleading people. You are actually preaching that Christ died in vain. Every word in Scripture leads up to that moment in the cross.

1 Corinthians 1:17-31 17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, F3 lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. 20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. 22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: 23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: 29 That no flesh should glory in his presence. 30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
Lisa

 

[simonjandrews]

I dont think its being looked correctly. These things as "shadows" but are taken more after the letter.

David being forgiven (as he was) but His child (which died) and after the number of "Seven days" is a type which silently speaks to Christ.

UNTO us a CHILD is born UNTO us a SON is given is very prophetic in nature as well and these things are hard to understand.

David might have been forgiven but for the child to die is a violation of Duet 24:16

Duet 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

The Child represents Christ as it was Him who was made sin but who knew no sin. Reference to the Lamb that was slain before the foundation of the world are found in various pictures such as these.

Its not a violation if Christ who is the Word made flesh is the one the child represents in this picture. Especially in regards to Davids sin.

Peace

Fireinfolding

Yes I understand what you are saying about the sin of the Farther/ Son thing and you do have a point but as for the seven days this does not pertian to christ. 7 has been a sacred number to kabblalists for avery long time and not only that but in ancient religions not of a christian nature. It is mainly deriven from ancient cosmology where there were only thought to be 7 planets in the heavens, there is strong evidence to suggest this is where the notion of " entering the 7th heaven" comes from and also that the menora represented the 7 hosts of heaven.

Where is the doctrine of types laid out in the Bible? This is an invention of theologians.it is not a Biblical concept.

I will get back to you on the farther/ Son point when I have looked at it more fully, but for now you have a point.

My origional point though was that the animalsacrifice was not the only method of forgiveness?

 

[Lisa0315]

Yes I understand what you are saying about the sin of the Farther/ Son thing and you do have a point but as for the seven days this does not pertian to christ. 7 has been a sacred number to kabblalists for avery long time and not only that but in ancient religions not of a christian nature. It is mainly deriven from ancient cosmology where there were only thought to be 7 planets in the heavens, there is strong evidence to suggest this is where the notion of " entering the 7th heaven" comes from and also that the menora represented the 7 hosts of heaven.

Where is the doctrine of types laid out in the Bible? This is an invention of theologians.it is not a Biblical concept.

I will get back to you on the farther/ Son point when I have looked at it more fully, but for now you have a point.

My origional point though was that the animalsacrifice was not the only method of forgiveness?

Well, God's grace is dispensed where He wills, but the standard and taught method of forgiveness is certainly THROUGH the blood.

Lisa

 

[simonjandrews]

Well, God's grace is dispensed where He wills, but the standard and taught method of forgiveness is certainly THROUGH the blood.

Lisa

Not in Torah it is not, In Greek Teatament it is.

"Let us render for bulls the offering of our lips" most offerings were an offering of praise not for the forgiveness of sins unless they were unitentional.
Why kill an animal for a sin that was intentional sin??? where is the evidence for this? in Torah. If all this points to jesus then where is he mentioned in Torah.

 

[Lisa0315]

Not in Torah it is not, In Greek Teatament it is.

"Let us render for bulls the offering of our lips" most offerings were an offering of praise not for the forgiveness of sins unless they were unitentional.
Why kill an animal for a sin that was intentional sin??? where is the evidence for this? in Torah. If all this points to jesus then where is he mentioned in Torah.

Look, ask yourself this one question...If Jesus' death on the cross was not needed, then, why did He die? Why not just assume His throne and be done? There is something missing in your theology.

Lisa

 

[Fireinfolding]

Yes I understand what you are saying about the sin of the Farther/ Son thing and you do have a point but as for the seven days this does not pertian to christ. 7 has been a sacred number to kabblalists for avery long time and not only that but in ancient religions not of a christian nature. It is mainly deriven from ancient cosmology where there were only thought to be 7 planets in the heavens, there is strong evidence to suggest this is where the notion of " entering the 7th heaven" comes from and also that the menora represented the 7 hosts of heaven.

I just wrote you a huge post that dissapeared in my reply box without even touching submit. That was very weird. Then at least let me reply in part here. God too uses numbers but I see these numbers used in relation things which pertain to Christ. Seven eyes on one Stone, the Seven days, Seven Spirits of God, the Seven angels in His right hand etc etc.

God rested from His work on the Seventh day, and sanctified it, Davids child died in Seven days and in relation to Davids sin. Yet that violates Duet and could only pertain to Christ to who the scriptures speak. He who knew no sin was made sin that we could be the righteousness of God by Him. I had MORE but Im not rewriting that big bad boy I posted to ya earlier Man I hate that.

Where is the doctrine of types laid out in the Bible? This is an invention of theologians.it is not a Biblical concept.

I wouldnt know it as I dont listen to many theologians Been on my own in the Lord near 18 years now. So I only been in the church (structure at one time) my first three months. I been out ever since.

Actually most bang their heads on this

Hosea 12:10 I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets.


Paul speaks himself of things by way of an Allegory. Though Im not quite sure which scriptures would be best suited for you.

Would you rather I quote from the OT or the NT, you seem to be in doubt. Im thinking you might be more in doubt of the NT if Im reading you right.

I will get back to you on the farther/ Son point when I have looked at it more fully, but for now you have a point.

My origional point though was that the animalsacrifice was not the only method of forgiveness?

Theres tons of things like this. This is a typical thing to bump into. Then you think... Now what? Is God lying? Is this not true? Why did God just violate what He said would not be done. So you begin to reason and REMEMBER HOW Hosea said He spoke and TO WHOM it speaks. These things correct our vision concerning them thats all. Happens to me all the time. I love it though cause I GROW with these sorts of things.

Peace

Fireinfolding

 

[winslow]

Most christians Iknow believe that there had to be the shedding of blood for the forgiveness of sins I.e animal sacrifice and then Christ on the cross.However this is not true in every sence.
Most animal sacrifices in Torah were either a praise offering or a sacrifice was made for unintentional Sin.

There were a great number of Jews who were caught up in the sacrificial system! This is why King David said in Psalm 40 v 6 in a christian and v 7 In the Jewish bible

" Sacrifices you did not desire, Burnt offerings you have not required"

This was changed in the Greek Testament in Heb ch 10v11( either by somebody who was trying to mislead people or who did not understand Hebrew)

Heb 10:5 Wherefore1352 when he cometh1525 into1519 the3588 world,2889 he saith,3004 Sacrifice2378 and2532 offering4376 thou wouldest2309 not,3756 but1161 a body4983 hast thou prepared2675 me:3427
Heb 10:6 In burnt offerings3646 and2532sacrifices for4012 sin266 thou hast had no pleasure.2106, 3756

A Body!!! where does it say that in the Torah! in fact human sacrifice is forbidden. How you Play with the Bible!

InTorah there is 3 methods of obtianing forgiveness the main ne being repentance.

This is why David said (2 Sam 12v13) "I have sinned before Hashem"

Nathan then says "HaShem hath forgiven you already.You shall not die" but his child to Uriah was striken and died.

There is no shedding of Blood! there is no mention of Jesus. Why is this? because the animal sacrifice is for unintentional sin.... this is where christians have got caught up in a distorted sacrificial system.

Psalm 51 says " Rescue me from the Blood Guilt"

"You desire no offering or I would offer it."

There Does not need to be a sacrifice! Hosea 3v4-5
Jews will be many days without a King or a sacrifice and Priesthood until the end of dayswill occur until they return unto HaShem!

You are mistaken in your belief that we can be saved without the sacrifice of Jesus. You need to study the sanctuary services in Leviticus to gain an understanding of atonement, not take a few verses out of context. When David says the Lord does not desire offerings he is talking about the Israelites using the sacrificial system as an excuse to sin. Although through repentance we gain access to God's mercy and grace, He desires our heartled obedience. There were many offerings in the sacrificial system, each one foreshadowing an aspect of God's grace and forgiveness. Offerings for both intentional and unintentional sins had their types in the sanctuary services.

 

[simonjandrews]

I dont think its being looked correctly. These things as "shadows" but are taken more after the letter.

David being forgiven (as he was) but His child (which died) and after the number of "Seven days" is a type which silently speaks to Christ.

UNTO us a CHILD is born UNTO us a SON is given is very prophetic in nature as well and these things are hard to understand.

David might have been forgiven but for the child to die is a violation of Duet 24:16

Duet 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

The Child represents Christ as it was Him who was made sin but who knew no sin. Reference to the Lamb that was slain before the foundation of the world are found in various pictures such as these.

Its not a violation if Christ who is the Word made flesh is the one the child represents in this picture. Especially in regards to Davids sin.

Peace

Fireinfolding

In responce to the Farther/Son argument it is important to undestand that the Child had to die in order that the true decent of king David may be known. There could be NO doubt as to weather or not the child was Davids or Uriah's. It does not say the child will die as a sacrifice for the sin of David.

Also may I point out that the child dying after 7 days does not pertain to christ but is there to ilustrate the fact that the child had not been circumcised and thus part of the brit.

Bathsheva was meant to marry David, but David was rash and "jumped the gun" so to speak. As a result the child had to die so that Solomon could be the King. His parentage was never in doubt -- he was the zera of David........ Davids firstborn did not die because of Davids Sin.

 

[Fireinfolding]

In responce to the Farther/Son argument it is important to undestand that the Child had to die in order that the true decent of king David may be known. There could be NO doubt as to weather or not the child was Davids or Uriah's. It does not say the child will die as a sacrifice for the sin of David.

What was your first question regarding sacrifices and offering were not desried but A BODY Well, WE ARE HIS BODY TOO.

Each was to be put to death for his own sin. David sinned against the Lord. ITS PUT AWAY but because he did that the penalty of sin is death. For the SOUL the sinneth shall DIE and Christ poured out his SOUL unto DEATH and FOR OUR SINS (not HIS)

2Sam 12:13 And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die.

2Sam 12:14 Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die.

Thats a direct violation of...

The fathers shall not die for the children, neither shall the children die for the fathers, but every man shall die for his own sin.

It can only be speaking TO CHRIST, he said the scriptures testify OF ME.

Thats what this is pointing to

2Cr 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.


2Sam 12:14 And Nathan departed unto his house. And the LORD struck the child that Uriah's wife bare unto David, and it was very sick.


Mat 8:17 Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.

Luke 4:23 he said unto them, Ye will surely say unto me this proverb, Physician, heal thyself

Who struck the Child and the Shepherd?

Zach 13:7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts

Also may I point out that the child dying after 7 days does not pertain to christ but is there to ilustrate the fact that the child had not been circumcised and thus part of the brit.

Says who?

Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost. (See a MIST WENT UP on the SEVENTH DAY?)

2Sam 2:18 And it came to pass on the seventh day, that the child died.

Shall I go on and on and on and on? Its endless connections to Jesus Christ.

Your reasoning NOT from inspiration but doubt.

Bathsheva was meant to marry David, but David was rash and "jumped the gun" so to speak. As a result the child had to die so that Solomon could be the King. His parentage was never in doubt -- he was the zera of David........ Davids firstborn did not die because of Davids Sin.

Where do you get these reasonings as if David put one past God ? Those reasonings are your mind trying to get the words to say otherwise concerning Christ. They are not even in scripture.

David sinned, and THE LORD STRUCK THAT CHILD FACT

2Sam 12:14 Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die.

Jesus knew everything in scripture was written about Him had to be fulfilled in accordance to what was HID in the foreknowledge of God concerning Him. Hes everywhere. Why do you think the good Shepherd Abels blood is shown? Because it speaks TO CHRIST.


Gen 4:10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.

Mark 15:34 Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Psalm 40:7Then said I, Lo, I come:in the volume of the book it is written of me,

I'd love to continue but I do get rather lengthy buts its THE LORD

Peace

Fireinfolding

 

[winslow]

.

2Sam 12:14 Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die.

Thats a direct violation of...

The fathers shall not die for the children, neither shall the children die for the fathers, but every man shall die for his own sin.

When scripture says the children will not die from the sins of the father it is talking about the second death. If a father is speeding in a car with his son and they get into an accident and the child dies, the child dies (the first death)because of the sin of the father. At the judgement however the son is not judged according to the sins of the father.

 

[Fireinfolding]

When scripture says the children will not die from the sins of the father it is talking about the second death. If a father is speeding in a car with his son and they get into an accident and the child dies, the child dies (the first death)because of the sin of the father. At the judgement however the son is not judged according to the sins of the father.

I dont see the first death in the same way, though Im looking at both of your perspectives that are "running together" and trying to point out one problem (one denying Davids sin had anything to do with the death of his firstborn) the other, "showing this speaks to Christ" thus not of physical death as it pertains to the child itself (though its shown).

I see these things after this manner speaking of Christ

Hosea 12:10 I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets.

Davids Child in a similitude is speaking of Christ, the death of the Child (fruit of my Body) for the ~sin of my soul~ speaks toward him. This gets hard to shared but a "Body" (was of Christ) just as the "Body" WE are is of Christ. Was never truly speaking of a seven day infant is what Im pointing out.

Mic 6:7... shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?

The soul that sinneth dieth, he was made sin (who knew no sin)

His soul was an offering

Isaiah 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin

Put to death in the body made alive in the Spirit speaks to given over to death (while physically living) that the LIFE of Jesus be made MANIFEST in this MORTAL BODY.

The true firstborn

Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead

His soul (He who knew no sin) was made an offering for sin. Penalty of sin =death.


Heb 9:26 but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Isaiah 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.


Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Im not seeing the first death being the bodies death because you can see the same principle in Ezekiel shown here. The soul that sinneth dies and by the commandment as all in Adam die, all in Christ are made alive.

Romans 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. (I no longer live)

Its ONCE to die and that death required not the death of Pauls body.

Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Its important He come without sin as it relates to the law wherein the sting of death is related.

1Cr 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

The law is NOT of FAITH

Acts 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

2Cr 1:10 Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us;

The Sting of death being sin is directly connected to the law which is the Ministry of Death, (The law not being of faith by which one overcomes is not HURT by the Second death) I see this in regards to its STING. But I dont see how the victory is at all connected to the physicality of the body after a carnal truth. After Moses died the same thing is shown in regards to his natural force, it was NOT abated. When Paul died his was not either.

Duet 34:7 Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated.

He (the MINISTRY of DEATH) struck the Rock (Christ) TWICE. Moses is directly related to Second DEATH in connection to its FORCE.

Anyways, I see it differently (at some point anyways). Hard to really discuss the similitude of Christ, when one is dismissing the reality of the connection to the sin of David and what God did because of it to the Child. Then show Jesus Christ in regards to the death of the Child. THEN turn and reason out the other things as well (from another perspective). I dont see the first death being that of the body though. But we all see it (perhaps differently) given as much as we are given to know.

Peace

Fireinfolding

 

[catwoman2]

Jesus Himself made a reference to the Torah in John 3:14-15:

.And as Moses lifted up the bronze snake on a pole in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, so that everyone who believes in him will have eternal life. (NLT)

In John 8:28,

He says: So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man on the cross, then you will understand that I AM he. I do nothing on my own but say only what the Father taught me. (NLT)

Jesus and His listeners understood that He would be crucified (and blood would be shed).

Is. 53:4-5 says:
Yet it was our weaknesses he carried;
it was our sorrows that weighed him down.
And we thought his troubles were a punishment from God, a punishment for his own sins!
But he was pierced for our rebellion,
crushed for our sins.
He was beaten so we could be whole.
He was whipped so we could be healed.
All of us, like sheep, have strayed away.
We have left God's paths to follow our own.
Yet the LORD laid on him
the sins of us all. (NLT)

 

[simonjandrews]

What was your first question regarding sacrifices and offering were not desried but A BODY Well, WE ARE HIS BODY TOO.

Each was to be put to death for his own sin. David sinned against the Lord. ITS PUT AWAY but because he did that the penalty of sin is death. For the SOUL the sinneth shall DIE and Christ poured out his SOUL unto DEATH and FOR OUR SINS (not HIS)

2Sam 12:13 And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die.

2Sam 12:14 Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die.

Thats a direct violation of...

The fathers shall not die for the children, neither shall the children die for the fathers, but every man shall die for his own sin.

It can only be speaking TO CHRIST, he said the scriptures testify OF ME.

Thats what this is pointing to

2Cr 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.


2Sam 12:14 And Nathan departed unto his house. And the LORD struck the child that Uriah's wife bare unto David, and it was very sick.


Mat 8:17 Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.

Luke 4:23 he said unto them, Ye will surely say unto me this proverb, Physician, heal thyself

Who struck the Child and the Shepherd?

Zach 13:7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts




Says who?

Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost. (See a MIST WENT UP on the SEVENTH DAY?)

2Sam 2:18 And it came to pass on the seventh day, that the child died.

Shall I go on and on and on and on? Its endless connections to Jesus Christ.

Your reasoning NOT from inspiration but doubt.



Where do you get these reasonings as if David put one past God ? Those reasonings are your mind trying to get the words to say otherwise concerning Christ. They are not even in scripture.

David sinned, and THE LORD STRUCK THAT CHILD FACT

2Sam 12:14 Howbeit, because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born unto thee shall surely die.

Jesus knew everything in scripture was written about Him had to be fulfilled in accordance to what was HID in the foreknowledge of God concerning Him. Hes everywhere. Why do you think the good Shepherd Abels blood is shown? Because it speaks TO CHRIST.


Gen 4:10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.

Mark 15:34 Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Psalm 40:7Then said I, Lo, I come:in the volume of the book it is written of me,

I'd love to continue but I do get rather lengthy buts its THE LORD

Peace

Fireinfolding

Where did I say a body had been prepared? It does not say that in Torah so how can these scriptures point to a sacrificial body?

The reasoning is from the TALMUD.

THE CHILD DIED ON THE SEVENTH DAY BECAUSE ON THE 8TH DAY HE WOULD HAVE BEEN BRIT.

NO, ALL THE REFERENCES YOU USE ARE IN THE NEW TESAMENT AND THEN YOU TRY TO PAINT CHRIST INTO THE TORAH WHEN HE IS NOT MENTIONED.

IN FACT IN THE TORAH IT SPECIFICALLY SAYS THAT HASHEM IS THE NAME OF GOD AND THAT IS HOW HE SHOULD BE MENTIONED THROUGHOUT ALL GENERATIONS. THERE IS NO JESUS MENTIONED THERE.

THE CHILD WAS STRICKEN SO THAT THE DECENT COULD BE CLEARLY SEEN.

 

[breakfastclub17]

I suppose I am Lisa 0315(no offence intended), If there is not only forgiveness through the shedding of blood then why the death of Christ?

I think your off your rocker........