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I disagree and think she has a ligetimate question.No sir it doesn't. It is a or the major difference in the covenants. You can't have them both as Gal 5:4 indicates, it is eatheir law or Jesus. Again it comes down to which covenant you like. Jesus is our sabbath rest Mat 11:28-30. Not to mention Hebrews on the subject.
Paul wrote:
Rom 14:5-6 5 One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. NIV
If mandatory Sabbath keeping was still in force Here is where Paul would have said so and ended any disagreements amongst believers there and then. But he didn't.
John
NZ
And yet no rebuttal for Jesus invitation. It had to be different than what they already had or Jesus is blowing hot air.Jesus being the sabbath rest is the lamest of excuses and it is a total twist of Hebrews. The rest that the subjects of Hebrews 4 were prevented from entering into, was it a rest in Jesus? No it was not.
Where is the scripture. Whith out it you have only opinion. And that is worthless.The day that many say means everyday, being our "new sabbath rest", did it exist in the Old testament? It surely did.
Then explain Gal 5:4. Jesus was subject to the law or He could not have fulfilled it. Jesus was under the OC and subject to it. The covenants changed at the cross when Jesus said 'It is finished!' John 19:30.And the whole thing about choosing between law and Jesus is bogus, because Jesus chose the law. He chose to obey his father because he loved him. I am sure however, that you have no problem with 9 of the 10 commandments. It is just the sabbath where the problem is. Study Hebrews 4 and start from chapter 3. Determine the subjects of the chapters, check the old testament context and gain a better understanding of the chapter.
Are you saying this can only be done on the 7th day?Close your eyes and let God lead you in this matter. Your time of worship is between you and God. The Jews see Shabbat as the date with God.. The tithing of time.. It is a time of celebration, a time of rejoicing, a time of rest and worshipping the Creator and Redeemer. It is a time of reflection, and study. It is foremost a relationship. It is personal.
You are correct so show my misappropiation of scripture instead of making an empty accusation.All the rationalization and misappropriation of scripture in the world will not change the facts.
All they do is exibit ones lack of understanting.
Yet again no scripture, just opinion. What is the problem? Why can't you provide a scriptural defense? Can't find one verse to support your position, can you?Actually Paul is not speakiing about God's Sabbath here.
If the Sabbath had been changed or done away there would be a plain, concise explanation and the biggest dissagrement ever, ending with a clear decision about it somewhere in the NT, but there is not.
Yet again no scripture, just opinion. What is the problem? Why can't you provide a scriptural defense? Can't find one verse to support your position, can you?
It is hard, to think of only one, so here are a few.
Some people think that Paul did away with the Sabbath and other biblical Holy Days when he wrote in Romans 14:5-6: that One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it
They think that Paul is referring to Gods Sabbaths even though the Sabbath is not mentioned in the whole book of Romans.
Paul and the other New Testament writers did not call the Sabbath one day.
Did you know that Paul quotes from the Old Testament 84 times in this one letter to support his teaching.
He never thought for one moment of doing away with the Sabbath or any other of the Ten Commandments.
Paul, while in Corinth, reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath,
and persuaded both Jews and Greeks (Acts18:1, 4).
Did he write to the church in Rome to tell them Sabbath-keeping was irrelevant while teaching Jews and gentiles every Sabbath in Corinth? I dont think so. No matter where Paul went, the book of Acts shows Pauls custom was to keep the fourth commandment / Sabbath (Acts 17:2).
We can not make anything holy. Yet we are commanded to remember the Sabbath and to keep it holy. We cant keep something holy that God has not made holy. If you look in Lev. 23:1-2 you will learn that, God calls His weekly Sabbath and annual Feast days His. They are not Israels or the Jews. They are Gods
Our example is this: Follow it or not, its up to you.
Lk.4:16 So He (Jesus) came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read.
Act. 17:1-2 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews. 2 Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
Act. 13:42-44 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath. (Now here was the perfect place for Paul to say, you dont have to worry about that old Sabbath thing. I will meet with you tomorrow on the first day of the week.) 43 Now when the congregation had broken up, many of the Jews and devout proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.
Act. 16:13 And on the Sabbath day we went out of the city to the riverside, where prayer was customarily made; and we sat down and spoke to the women who met there.
Act. 18:4And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks.
Now in verse 11 we read that Paul lived there for a year and six months. Since he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath thats 78 weekly Sabbaths and about 10 annual Sabbaths.
Further proof that this common interpretation of Romans 14 is wrong can be found in
Pauls first epistle to the Corinthians. He wrote this epistle in or around A.D. 55, shortly before he came to Corinth (1 Corinthians 16:5-6) on the visit during which he would write his epistle to the Romans. What do we find he tells the Corinthians in this letter?
He tells them to keep the biblical Feast of Unleavened Bread in the proper manner,
understanding its spiritual intent (1 Corinthians
5:7-8; compare Leviticus 23:6). He instructs them on how to keep the
New Testament Passover as a commemoration of Jesus Christs death (1 Corinthians
11:23-30).
He reminds them that Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us (1 Corinthians 5:7).
He writes that he intends to journey to them, but that he will first stay in Ephesus until
after the biblical Feast of Pentecost has passed
(1 Corinthians 16:8).
If you accept the common misinterpretation of the book of Romans, you would have to
conclude that Paul instructed the Corinthians in how to properly observe the Passover, that he told them to keep the biblical Feast of Unleavened Bread, and that he noted he was staying in Ephesus until after the biblical Feast of Pentecostand the very next year wrote to the Romans that none of this mattered and was all unnecessary.
On the other hand, if you understand Pauls teaching to the Romans as it is truthfully presented in this chapter, you will see complete agreement between his actions and the letters he wrote to Church members both in Rome and Corinth.
Rev talks about "worship Him who created heaven and earth.. which refers again to the original worshipping of God.Yet again no scripture, just opinion. What is the problem? Why can't you provide a scriptural defense? Can't find one verse to support your position, can you?
It is an experience.. you and God will have to have together to truly understand.Are you saying this can only be done on the 7th day?
It is hard, to think of only one, so here are a few.
Some people think that Paul did away with the Sabbath and other biblical Holy Days when he wrote in Romans 14:5-6: that One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he doesnot observe it
They think that Paul is referring to Gods Sabbaths even though the Sabbath is not mentioned in thewhole book of Romans.
Paul and the other New Testament writers did not call the Sabbath one day.
Did you know that Paul quotes from the Old Testament 84 times in this one letter to support his teaching.
He never thought for one moment of doing away with the Sabbath or any other of the Ten Commandments.
Paul, while in Corinth, reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath,
and persuaded both Jews and Greeks (Acts18:1, 4).
Did he write to the church in Rome to tell them Sabbath-keeping was irrelevant while teaching Jews and gentiles every Sabbath in Corinth? I dont think so. No matter where Paul went, the book ofActs shows Pauls custom was to keep the fourth commandment / Sabbath (Acts 17:2).
We can not make anything holy. Yet we are commanded to remember the Sabbath and to keep it holy. We cant keep something holy that God has not made holy. If you look in Lev. 23:1-2 you will learn that, God calls His weekly Sabbath and annual Feast days His. They are notIsraels or the Jews. They are Gods
Our example is this: Follow it or not, its up to you.
Lk.4:16 So He (Jesus) came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read.
Act. 17:1-2 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews. 2 Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
Act. 13:42-44 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words mightbe preached to them the next Sabbath. (Now here was the perfect place for Paul to say, you dont have to worry about that old Sabbath thing. I will meet with you tomorrow on the first day of the week.) 43 Now when the congregation had broken up, many of the Jews and devout proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continuein the grace of God.
44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.
Act. 16:13 And on the Sabbath day we went out of the city to the riverside, where prayer was customarily made; and we sat down and spoke to the women who met there.
Act. 18:4And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks.
Now in verse 11 we read that Paul lived there for a year and six months. Since he reasoned in the synagogueevery Sabbath thats 78 weekly Sabbaths and about 10 annual Sabbaths.
Further proof that this common interpretation of Romans 14 is wrong can be found in
Pauls first epistle to the Corinthians. He wrote this epistle in or around A.D. 55, shortly beforehe came to Corinth (1 Corinthians 16:5-6) on the visit during which he would write his epistleto the Romans. What do we find he tells the Corinthians in this letter?
He tells them to keep the biblical Feast of Unleavened Bread in the proper manner,
understanding its spiritual intent (1 Corinthians
5:7-8; compare Leviticus 23:6). He instructs them on how to keep the
New Testament Passover as a commemoration of Jesus Christs death (1 Corinthians
11:23-30).
He reminds them that Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us (1 Corinthians 5:7).
He writes that he intends to journey to them, but that he will first stay in Ephesus until
after the biblical Feast of Pentecost has passed
(1 Corinthians 16:8).
If you accept the common misinterpretation of the book of Romans, you would have to
conclude that Paul instructed the Corinthians in how to properly observe the Passover, thathe told them to keep the biblical Feast of Unleavened Bread, and that he noted he wasstaying in Ephesus until after the biblical Feast of Pentecostand the very next year wroteto the Romans that none of this mattered and was all unnecessary.
On the other hand, if you understand Pauls teaching to the Romans as it is truthfully presented in this chapter, you will see complete agreement between his actions and the lettershe wrote to Church members both in Rome and Corinth.
It is an experience.. you and God will have to have together to truly understand.
And yet no rebuttal for Jesus invitation. It had to be different than what they already had or Jesus is blowing hot air. Where is the scripture. Whith out it you have only opinion. And that is worthless.Then explain Gal 5:4. Jesus was subject to the law or He could not have fulfilled it. Jesus was under the OC and subject to it. The covenants changed at the cross when Jesus said 'It is finished!' John 19:30.
Let us also remember that Jesus is the end of the law for righteousness. Romans 10:4
Then explain Gal 5:4. Jesus was subject to the law or He could not have fulfilled it. Jesus was under the OC and subject to it. The covenants changed at the cross when Jesus said 'It is finished!' John 19:30.
Let us also remember that Jesus is the end of the law for righteousness. Romans 10:4
So it means you really do not know the Old testament context but thats ok. I didn't know it either and it's because of speaking about it here that made me dig deeper and study it more. What Jesus was offering in Matthew is not a replacement Sabbath.
That's right. He was giving to us a new salvation of adoption into God's own family as sons and daughters of which He is the firstfruit of that recreation of humanity.
It is a emotional and spiritual rest from cares and burdens.
That just assumption
If this is something new, Jesus is offering, that means no one in the Old Testament ever had this rest.
Right on as Hebrews tells us:Heb 4:8-10 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath rest for the people of God; NIV
Jesus isn't giving something never before given. David and many others would have experienced this rest, through his faith in God.
Totally unfounded in Scripture
A question to think about. Was this rest a replacement to the Sabbath? When they eventually get the rest temporarily did they not still keep the Sabbath?
It wasn't. God rest is when he comes to His temple:
1 Chron 28:2 King David rose to his feet and said: "Listen to me, my brothers and my people. I had it in my heart to build a house as a place of rest for the ark of the covenant of the Lord , for the footstool of our God, and I made plans to build it.
Ps 132:7-9 "Let us go to his dwelling place; let us worship at his footstool arise, O Lord , and come to your resting place, you and the ark of your might. May your priests be clothed with righteousness; may your saints sing for joy."
[FONT="]Isa 66:1-2 [/FONT][FONT="]This is what the Lord says: "Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool. Where is the house you will build for me? Where will my resting place be? Has not my hand made all these things, and so they came into being?" declares the Lord [/FONT]
Hebrews 4 actually endorses the Sabbath rest by giving example of God's Sabbath keeping and saying that those who enter into rest follow his example of doing it. Some say it means you have to rest from spiritual works of earning Salvation. However, that is not how God rested. God purposefully chose to create the world in 6 days and rest on the 7th to show an example, and here in Hebrews it is saying to enter into rest the same way God did from his.
On day six Gods work had been completed and so on day seven He rested. The resting place of a god was a temple. The Hebrew word translated rest has the meaning of completion of an activity rather than our usage implying inactivity. When God rested on the seventh day that was not primarily about doing nothing but about God having completed His work, and that earth, under the vice regency of humanity, was now all set up and running in a partnership with its Creator. This is what gives our human activities such as architecture, invention, governance, husbandry, sport, family, parenting, construction, and all the great variety of human activity their true meaning. We are joining with the Creator in the ongoing operation of our world.
Also
Here are some scriptures where rest means to enjoy and live in Gods provision.
Deut 3:19-20 However, your wives, your children and your livestock (I know you have much livestock) may stay in the towns I have given you, until the Lord gives rest to your brothers as he has to you, and they too have taken over the land that the Lord your God is giving them, across the Jordan.
Ps 132:13-14 For the Lord has chosen Zion, he has desired it for his dwelling: "This is my resting place for ever and ever; here I will sit enthroned, for I have desired it
In this Psalm we see the concepts of a throne, temple and rest clearly presented.
For those who say the Sabbath is now "Today" meaning everyday, they base it on Hebrews 4:7 which is quoting from what David id in Psalms 95. That is why is says, ".. saying in David" and "..as it is said". This is where the quote is taken from
Psa 95:7 For he is our God; and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand. To day if ye will hear his voice,
Psa 95:8 Harden not your heart, as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
Psa 95:9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my work.
Psa 95:10 Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:
Psa 95:11 Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.
So here in the OT, David is speaking of today. Is this a replacement Sabbath? Of course not, it is simply a call to accept the voice of but it is linked directly to the OT context of Hebrews 4 which is the rest given to them to enter Canaan.
The rest there was God's provision (land in that case) Now it's Jesus and His salvation.
Jesus was subject to the law or he could not have fulfilled it. Very profound statement. Let's see why Jesus was subject to the law.
Agreed. Then having fulfilled all righteousness he became our sacrifice and gave us the new and better covenant.
The carnal mind is not subject to the law of God and can never be. Jesus was spiritually minded and therefore was subject to the law. He was able to fulfill the law because he loved God.
More Greek than biblical
What you need to understand about a covenant is that it is an agreement between two sides. If I have an agreement that i would pay you $15,000 to build my house and you breach the contract it does not mean I still do not want my house built. Hebrews 7 - 10 speaks at length about the old covenant. It is the only NT book which deals in detail with the Old Covenant and what had passed away. The section of the law which is mentioned mostly is the law concerning ordinances and ceremonies or the "handwriting of ordinances". However, in the new agreement Jesus still wants his Holy law to be at the center.
You confuse covenant (an unchanging commitment) with contract (mutual obligations, which if not fulfilled negate the contract
You did ask about Galatians. The fact is that the law was never for justification. The jews at that time, gave a purpose to the law for which it was never intended. The law was never for salvation, or for justification. The law was to give a knowledge of sin. If people looks to the law to justify them, then the grace of God has no effect on them.
That's a bit confused too. Its what we do knowing we have sinned that is our problem. The real remedy is in the New Covenant
But as the previous scripture shows, if you have love for God you will fulfill his law as Jesus did because love is the fulfilling of the law.
That's what all the law pointed to. But love is not the law. Nor can the law enable us to approach God with confidence. This is why the new covenant is for a new heart.
Col 2:13-14 He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. NIV
That's pretty clear. The law itself was nailed to the cross - dead cancelled, no longer operative or relevant.
Col 2:13-14 He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. NIV
That's pretty clear. The law itself was nailed to the cross - dead cancelled, no longer operative or relevant.
Actually, for the ancients a god's 'rest' was their coming home - dwelling within their temple. God's rest in Genesis was about the earth being set up and running under God's authority. All was in place.
As to law, you must read the NT as the culmination of God's message to us in Christ. There are just so many verses in the NT that speak of the end of the law, including Hebrews. In Romans, where past traditions were a big issue in the early church, Paul wrote:
Rom 14:5-6 5 One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. NIV
If mandatory Sabbath keeping was still in force Here is where Paul would have said so and ended any disagreements amongst believers there and then. But he didn't.
John
NZ
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