Here's a link: Blue Letter Bible - Home Page
Do a search for some of the words found in the ten commandments.
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Conveniently selective. No Scripture?
Galatians 5:18 (NKJV)
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
The Sabbath COMMANDS are only in the Law of Moses.
The seventh day was called holy before Exodus 16.
What Jesus did on the Sabbath was also allowed under the OT.
Declaring to be Lord means He had authority to put the Sabbath in its right perspective.
It seems clear on here that people believe once we have faith in Jesus, we have no need to keep the law.
But Paul addresses this also in Romans. In 3:31 he says, "Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law." Paul tells us that faith does NOT abolish the law, it establishes it, or upholds it.
I think it is interesting that 9 of the 10 are upheld.
But if 9 of the commandments are clearly still to be upheld, WHY would ONE of them not be?
Doesn't it make sense that God established these 10 for a reason?
To show that we love Him (The first four) and to show our love for others (The last 6).
Also in Revelation 12:17 it says the dragon went to war with those "who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." Again in Revelation 14:12 it reads, "Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus."
First of all, Jesus kept the Sabbath
and actually never told people not to observe it
I feel it's kind of weak to only focus on one part of my post and then leave out the scripture that I provided.
For me, that's just semantics. And doesn't address the issue of God being a poor disciplinarian.Whoever hates or is indifferent to God will have chosen to not take the lifeline extended by God and will have chosen to remain on earth when it is cleansed by fire. That scenario is far different than saying that God burns people for not loving Him.
Byfaithalone1;Show us where God made a sabbath command to men before Exodus 16. You seem to be suggesting that the word "remember" must point back to creation while failing to notice that "remember" could point back to Exodus 16.
Check again. Gleaning food on the sabbath was not permitted by God-given laws given to the Israelites.
Yes, in subjection to the Himself. He had the authority to fulfill the law and that's what He said He came to do. I believe Him.
BFA
You seem to be building a pretty tall tower on an argument from silence.Show me where He didn't.
Listen to what God says when they went out to pick up manna on the seventh day.
Exodus 16:28 And the Lord said to Moses, "How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My laws?What commandments and Laws was God referring to?
For whom?The seventh day was holy, sanctified and blessed at creation.
For whom?These words have powerfull meanings. When God says something is holy, it's holy.
So it's OK to violate God-given laws if you're hungry?Just picking up food for the sake of picking up food is different than if you need to pick up food because you're hungry.
Tell me more. What was His teaching?Jesus taught me and you how to keep the Sabbath holy in light of these issues that arise on the Sabbath.
Why are you interested in my sabbath keeping? What's at stake?He never once did away with the Sabbath, changed the Sabbath day or said the Sabbath is not longer a sacred day so you have two choices, keep the Sabbath holy as commanded by God and magnified by Jesus or not keep it holy and give an account to God.
Byfaithalone1;You seem to be building a pretty tall tower on an argument from silence.
"This is what the LORD commanded: 'Tomorrow is to be a day of rest, a holy Sabbath to the LORD. So bake what you want to bake and boil what you want to boil. Save whatever is left and keep it until morning.'"
For whom?
For whom?
So it's OK to violate God-given laws if you're hungry?
Tell me more. What was His teaching?
Why are you interested in my sabbath keeping? What's at stake?
BFA
Show us where God made a sabbath command to men before Exodus 16. You seem to be suggesting that the word "remember" must point back to creation while failing to notice that "remember" could point back to Exodus 16.
Why don't you just post your Biblical evidence if you have any?Here's a link: Blue Letter Bible - Home Page
Do a search for some of the words found in the ten commandments.
What is the tall tower I've built? I've asserted that people should observe the sabbath if it holds meaning for them and I've cited Romans 14 as contributing to my conclusion on the matter. That's hardly a tall tower and it wasn't built from silence. In contrast, the SDA denomination has asserted that every man has been required to observe the sabbath since Day 7 of creation and that a day is coming when non-sabbatarians will fail to receive the seal of God and will instead receive the mark of the beast. Now, that is a tall tower built on an argument from silence!Maybe, but if you can't prove He didn't then you are in same boat I'm in.
Which man?Jesus said it was made for man.
I don't need to ask Jesus. Since He confirmed that He worked on the sabbath, I already understand His position.Ask Jesus.
A link is not a discussion. Please tell me what Jesus' teaching was regarding the sabbath. Then we can continue the discussion. Thanks.
I asked you that question. If I'm at risk, then I would think that your godly love for me would compel you to warn me. Tell me, K4C, what's at stake here?You might want to ask God that question.
Perhaps you should explain to the audience why you have never kept the sabbath holy according to the law. What eludes you is that as a component of the first covenant taken away by Jesus Christ (Hebrews 10:9) that mandates the burnt offerings God has no pleasure in, the sabbath kept the people; the people did not keep the sabbath.Jesus taught me and you how to keep the Sabbath holy in light of these issues that arise on the Sabbath. He never once did away with the Sabbath, changed the Sabbath day or said the Sabbath is not longer a sacred day so you have two choices, keep the Sabbath holy as commanded by God and magnified by Jesus or not keep it holy and give an account to God.
Perhaps you should explain to the audience why you have never kept the sabbath holy according to the law. What eludes you is that as a component of the first covenant taken away by Jesus Christ (Hebrews 10:9) that mandates the burnt offerings God has no pleasure in, the sabbath kept the people; the people did not keep the sabbath.
And being kept by a component of the covenant from Mount Sinai invalidates any claim to eternal life: Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? "Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman."
(Galatians 4:30)
Because the sabbath is a component of the old covenant, and exists nowhere else. If you expect to keep the sabbath holy, your appeal is to compliance to the law wherein it is ordained. Without the burnt offerings and the priesthood authorized to make them, you have not complied with the law.Why do you continue to go back to the Old Covenant to draw principles of Sabbath keeping as it relates to animal sacrifices.
You have never quoted anything from Jesus during the tenure of the new covenant, and I doubt you know what event inaugurated the change from Moses to the new covenant mediated by Jesus.I live by the words of Jesus for the New Covenant and He tells me that doing good on the Sabbath is okay. He does not say the Sabbath is done away with nor does He say the Sabbath was changed to another day. He also tells me that doing good on the Sabbath was also an Old Covenant principle as well. So yes, I have thrown out the bondwoman with it's strick demands and threats of death. I am now under grace but grace does not give me free passage to sin with no repentence.
Include the previous verse in this quote, and you will see that we have been delivered from the law that is identified by the quote found only in Exodus 20:17 and Deuteronomy 5:21. The law we have been delivered from was the Ten Commandments.Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, "You shall not covet.''
A failure to distinguish between sin and transgressions that impute sin against you does not help you make a coherent presentation.Romans 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!
Romans 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not!
VictorC;Because the sabbath is a component of the old covenant, and exists nowhere else. If you expect to keep the sabbath holy, your appeal is to compliance to the law wherein it is ordained. Without the burnt offerings and the priesthood authorized to make them, you have not complied with the law.
You have never quoted anything from Jesus during the tenure of the new covenant, and I doubt you know what event inaugurated the change from Moses to the new covenant mediated by Jesus.
Include the previous verse in this quote, and you will see that we have been delivered from the law that is identified by the quote found only in Exodus 20:17 and Deuteronomy 5:21. The law we have been delivered from was the Ten Commandments.
A failure to distinguish between sin and transgressions that impute sin against you does not help you make a coherent presentation.
Without following the red herring you claim without support, please tell me why you don't keep the sabbath holy and are noncompliant with the law that ordained it.Jesus kept the Sabbath.
Paul kept the Sabbath.
Jesus' followers kept the Sabbath.
Look again at the post you responded to - you don't know when the new covenant began, do you? Would you like some help?That's not fair, you can lie because you are not under the Law.
It's a sin to bear false witness as you just did.We have been delivered from the curse of the Law but not the Law itself. The curse of the Law is what the OC brings to people but when we're in Christ the curse is taken away, not the Law itself. It's still a sin to lie, steal, commit adultery, worship other gods, forget the Sabbath and so on.
If you are not free to break the law, then you are under the law by your own admission. And as Romans 3:19 concludes, "Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God".Understanding that the Law points out sin and brings the curse because of sin is very easy to understand. When you're in Christ you are not under the Law in that it has no power to condemn but that does not mean we are free to break the Law.
Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, "You shall not covet.''
VictorC;Without following the red herring you claim without support, please tell me why you don't keep the sabbath holy and are noncompliant with the law that ordained it.
Look again at the post you responded to - you don't know when the new covenant began, do you? Would you like some help?
It's a sin to bear false witness as you just did.
It's also a sin to call God a liar. When Hebrews 10:9 states "He takes away the first that He may establish the second", the Person referred to here is Jesus Christ, who took away the law.
If you are not free to break the law, then you are under the law by your own admission. And as Romans 3:19 concludes, "Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God".
We have been delivered from the Ten Commandments, as this verse proves in its context.
Did you miss what I posted?I do keep the Sabbath. For six days you shall labor but the seventh day is holy in it you shall not work. Simple...
So your conclusion is that there is no sabbath anymore ("We are not under the terms of the OC"), but it is somehow a sin to violate an ordinance that doesn't exist?We are not under the terms of the OC but we are surely under it's principles. Lying, stealing, worshiping other gods, murder, forgetting the Sabbath and so on are still sins.
Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, "You shall not covet.''
VictorC;Did you miss what I posted?
Because the sabbath is a component of the old covenant, and exists nowhere else. If you expect to keep the sabbath holy, your appeal is to compliance to the law wherein it is ordained. Without the burnt offerings and the priesthood authorized to make them, you have not complied with the law.
Resting and attending a church service doesn't meet the requirements to keep the sabbath holy, and that is the requirement in Exodus 20:8.
So your conclusion is that there is no sabbath anymore ("We are not under the terms of the OC"), but it is somehow a sin to violate an ordinance that doesn't exist?
Cute.
And, I notice that you keep quoting from Romans 7, which refutes your entire argument. We have been delivered from the Ten Commandments.
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