Sabbath

Joe67 · Sep 1, 2010

e7c7o7 said:
If we read the statement Paul makes in context and in the context of his writings in Galatians 4:10, Romans 14:5 I think we find a biblical conclusion on the sabbath issue. Coupled with the fact that history shows that early christians didn't all keep the sabbath, mostly the jewish christians.
""The primitive Christian community largely kept the Sabbath, more strictly in the case of Jewish Christians, but in that of some Gentile Christians as well (Col. 2:16; Worship 1)...Christians began to stop keeping the Sabbath in the late first century and increasingly in the second. They celebrated Sunday as the day of the ressurection instead (Barn. 15.9; Ign. Magn. 9.1) In some cases they attacked both the institution and the practice of the Sabbath (Diogn. 4.1; Barn. 2.5; the preaching of Peter, according to Clement of Alexandria Strom.6.5.41)" Encyclopedia of Christianity, Volume 4, page 790-791 by Erwin Fahlbusch, Geoffrey William Bromiley

e.c...,

When the nature/quality/character of sabbath is seen as "suffering the loss of all things that I might win Christ," then the "time and space" questions are like seeds that fall by the wayside.

Sabbath is "suffering", that Christ might be revealed.

Our individual sabbath keeping is when we "always bear about in the body the dying of the the Lord Jesus, that..." As we are crucified with Christ, we enter into sabbath. This occurs through the "law of the Spirit of life, that is in Christ Jesus." It is not only doctrine, but also experience. It is a two-edged sword, cutting both ways. A curved sword is sharp on only one side.

Joe

Byfaithalone1 · Sep 1, 2010

e7c7o7 said:
The Sabbath debate really boils down to whether or not Colossians 2:16 is talking about the seventh day sabbath

Provocative post and I agree that "sabbaths" includes the seventh day sabbath. However, there are other passages that challenge the traditional SDA viewpoint. The entire book of Galatians, for example . . . .

BFA

e7c7o7 · Sep 1, 2010

Well I felt like it is one of the most important passages and the 'crux of the issue' because if the Sabbath is being reffered to here then God has spoken clearly to Christians through His Word and made it clear that, like other ceremonial observances in the Mosaic Law, its not commanded of Christians whether choose to observe the day or not.

e7c7o7 · Sep 1, 2010

Joe67 said:
e.c...,

When the nature/quality/character of sabbath is seen as "suffering the loss of all things that I might win Christ," then the "time and space" questions are like seeds that fall by the wayside.

Sabbath is "suffering", that Christ might be revealed.

Our individual sabbath keeping is when we "always bear about in the body the dying of the the Lord Jesus, that..." As we are crucified with Christ, we enter into sabbath. This occurs through the "law of the Spirit of life, that is in Christ Jesus." It is not only doctrine, but also experience. It is a two-edged sword, cutting both ways. A curved sword is sharp on only one side.

Joe

That's a really interesting way to see the Sabbath. But are those Scriptures you quoted speaking on the issue of keeping the Sabbath? I saw the issue of Sabbath keeping in Scripture as Exodus 20:9-11, so isn't the 'character' of the sabbath as a literal rest or a coming spiritual rest (Hebrews 4:9-11)

Also is your opinion that the Sabbath is a spiritual rest then?

Joe67 · Sep 1, 2010

e7c7o7 said:
That's a really interesting way to see the Sabbath. But are those Scriptures you quoted speaking on the issue of keeping the Sabbath? I saw the issue of Sabbath keeping in Scripture as Exodus 20:9-11, so isn't the 'character' of the sabbath as a literal rest or a coming spiritual rest (Hebrews 4:9-11)

Also is your opinion that the Sabbath is a spiritual rest then?

e.c...,

Truly it is a spiritual rest that is coming, yet even now is, as we are the instruments of grace working in us.

1 Cor 15:10
10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. KJV

Phil 2:1
1 If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies, KJV

Phil 3:10-11
10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
KJV

Phil 1:29
29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake; KJV

Col 1:24
24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: KJV

Joe

AzA · Sep 1, 2010

e7c7o7 said:
Well I felt like it is one of the most important passages and the 'crux of the issue'

I understand and respect that.

One of my common findings in my conversations with sabbatarians (seventh-day and otherwise) is that many locate their cruxes for this issue elsewhere.
I've already offered mine, and it's not a textual argument.

Joe67 · Sep 1, 2010

Here is the sabbath rest as witnessed in the Revelation.

Rev 14:13
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them. KJV

Blessed are the dead (the body is dead because of sin)

Which die (repent)

In the Lord (they sleep in Jesus)

From this event onward (son of man on a cloud with a sickle)

rest from their labors (cease from the desires of the flesh and the mind)

Their works follow them (grace labors in them/ goodness and mercy shall follow me...)

Joe

StormyOne · Sep 14, 2010

IPreachChrist said:
I haven't read every single post in here so I'm not sure if it has been brought up or not, but I am wondering why in Genesis 2:2-3 God rested (Which we know He didn't need...) and then He blessed it and made it Holy.

This is not connected to the Law because the Law was not given until.... Well quite sometime after that. God rested on the seventh day from His work and blessed the day and made it Holy. Why would this be any different today?

Why would what be any different today? The narrative suggested that God rested, it does not say that God commanded humans to take a break... there is a significant difference in the two don't you think?

k4c · Sep 14, 2010

StormyOne said:
Why would what be any different today? The narrative suggested that God rested, it does not say that God commanded humans to take a break... there is a significant difference in the two don't you think?

Is the seventh day a blessed and holy day? Yes it is.

When did God bless and make the day holy? At creation.

Did God say remember to keep it holy? Yes He.

When God said, "Rememeber to keep it keep it holy" He was referring to the fact the it was made holy at creation and we are to keep it holy.

This is not rocket science.

Sophia7 · Sep 14, 2010

IPreachChrist said:
I haven't read every single post in here so I'm not sure if it has been brought up or not, but I am wondering why in Genesis 2:2-3 God rested (Which we know He didn't need...) and then He blessed it and made it Holy.

This is not connected to the Law because the Law was not given until.... Well quite sometime after that. God rested on the seventh day from His work and blessed the day and made it Holy. Why would this be any different today?

This is what the text actually says:

Gen. 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.
2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work.
3 And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

God didn't just rest; He rested from His work of creation. In other words, He stopped creating. Did He go back to creating again on the first day of the second week? God's rest in Genesis wasn't a weekly break from work; it was a cessation of a specific act. It was not the weekly Sabbath that was instituted later and given to the Israelites.

k4c · Sep 14, 2010

Sophia7 said:
This is what the text actually says:

Gen. 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.
2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work.
3 And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

God didn't just rest; He rested from His work of creation. In other words, He stopped creating. Did He go back to creating again on the first day of the second week? God's rest in Genesis wasn't a weekly break from work; it was a cessation of a specific act. It was not the weekly Sabbath that was instituted later and given to the Israelites.

God blessed the seventh day and made it holy at creation.

Many years after God said, "Remember to keep it holy".

When God said, "Rememeber to keep it keep it holy" He was referring to the fact the it was made holy at creation and we are to keep it holy still.

The seventh day wasn't made holy at Sinai, it was confirmed to be holy.

Doing good and serving God does not profane the holiness of the seventh day.

StormyOne · Sep 14, 2010

k4c said:
Is the seventh day a blessed and holy day? Yes it is.

When did God bless and make the day holy? At creation.

Did God say remember to keep it holy? Yes He.

When God said, "Rememeber to keep it keep it holy" He was referring to the fact the it was made holy at creation and we are to keep it holy.

This is not rocket science.

Your logic is flawed so it may be rocket science to you... you have no idea what it means to keep a day holy... Likewise no matter how many times you say it, the sabbath was not instituted at creation...

k4c · Sep 14, 2010

StormyOne said:
Your logic is flawed so it may be rocket science to you... you have no idea what it means to keep a day holy... Likewise no matter how many times you say it, the sabbath was not instituted at creation...

Jesus taught us how to keep the seventh day holy. Oh yeah, you don't believe the Bible, sorry.

The seventh day was in fact made holy at creation. God tells us to remember to keep it holy. He even tells how to keep it holy by taking the day off from work.

Duckybill · Sep 14, 2010

I find it very interesting that the Sabbath is barely mentioned after the Gospels and Acts.

Colossians 2:16 (NKJV)
16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths,

Ok Lord, I won't. Even though they keep trying.

k4c · Sep 14, 2010

Duckybill said:
I find it very interesting that the Sabbath is barely mentioned after the Gospels and Acts.

Colossians 2:16 (NKJV)
16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths,

Ok Lord, I won't. Even though they keep trying.

Maybe it was not an issue since Jesus taught so plainly on how to keep it holy.

Duckybill · Sep 14, 2010

k4c said:
Maybe it was not an issue since Jesus taught so plainly on how to keep it holy.

That's because He was talking to Jews under the Law of Moses.

k4c · Sep 14, 2010

Duckybill said:
That's because He was talking to Jews under the Law of Moses.

So you say the words of Jesus is for Jews only?

StormyOne · Sep 14, 2010

k4c said:
Jesus taught us how to keep the seventh day holy. Oh yeah, you don't believe the Bible, sorry.

The seventh day was in fact made holy at creation. God tells us to remember to keep it holy. He even tells how to keep it holy by taking the day off from work.

You are right I don't believe in the way you abuse the bible.... there is no indication from the narrative that ANYTHING you have suggested happened... though everyone here has told you that in various ways, yet you continue to misuse the bible....

VictorC · Sep 14, 2010

k4c said:
Jesus taught us how to keep the seventh day holy. Oh yeah, you don't believe the Bible, sorry.

The seventh day was in fact made holy at creation. God tells us to remember to keep it holy. He even tells how to keep it holy by taking the day off from work.

Most of the participants here don't believe in the abuse you do to the Bible, so I guess you get some credit for partial truth. No one other than God kept the seventh day of creation and He never ended that permanent rest, and it wasn't until much later that the sabbath was "made for man" with uniform attribution of its origin with Moses. Its tenure ended when we were given entrance into the permanent rest the periodic sabbath was a shadow of.

Byfaithalone1 · Sep 14, 2010

When God said, "Rememeber to keep it keep it holy" He was referring to the fact the it was made holy at creation and we are to keep it holy still.

When God said, "Remember," He was clearly talking to Israelites and He was referring to His previous command to them that is recorded in Exodus 16. What was His rationale for making this command? So the Israelites would remember their exodus from Egypt.

k4c said:
Maybe it was not an issue since Jesus taught so plainly on how to keep it holy.

. . . by supporting His disciples when they gleaned food on the sabbath . . . .

. . . by acknowledging that He worked on the sabbath . . .

. . . by declaring that He was Lord of the sabbath and that the sabbath was not Lord over Him . . . .

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