Sabbath

[- DRA -]

This is the exact point brothers and sisters:
"And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him." -- Revelation 22:3 -- ...

... I am a non-denominational Sabbath keeper.
In fact, I love the Truth that is in Jesus. I love the truth of all things. That truth is Jesus. I rest in Him. This truth of all things, has a spiritual component and a physical component in my life.

... I was recently posting in another forum, on this subject of Sabbath. I have been reading in Christian Forums for a while. I have been watching this thread. The Lord has prevented me from posting, until now.

In my humble opinion, these misunderstandings about Sabbath, are fallacious (false) arguments, without a thorough understanding or consideration of the facts. Just because Jesus did not restate the command for Sabbath does not void it. Sabbath was often a point of contention, as it is now. Obviously this command has been attacked from both sides. Its principle and fact can be made burdensome, ignored, or changed. The truth of the matter, is its fact. I have heard some say Jesus is the Sabbath. ...balderdash... Jesus, is Jesus. I have heard some say Sabbath is the rest we have in Jesus. Better, but, that is not a literal true "day." I personally rest in Jesus everyday of my life. That is not a literal true "day" for me. My understanding of Sabbath, as an actual day of creation, is in the seventh day of the literal week.

In response to the last paragraph, the seventh day (i.e. Sabbath rest) is presented in Hebrews 4:1-11 as a type, shadow, or copy of the Christian's true rest (i.e. a home in heaven - Philippians 3:14,20-21).

A logical rhetorical question: If God has a heartbeat, when?

... The commandment in question, the fourth commandment, starts: "Remember the Sabbath Day." Remembering something implies it is already known. So let us remember the sequence of events.
Remember, The first five days in the creation of this world were spent creating things in the physical realm. On the sixth day God created man, a creature of the physical (dust) and a creature of spirit (breath of life from God). Remember, then God "created" the Sabbath. The Sabbath was something entirely spiritual, something believed and kept.

Actually, the sequence of event pertaining to the observance of the Sabbath starts in Exodus 16. Then, God reminds the Israelites in chapter 20 to remember the Sabbath. If the Sabbath was observed prior to Exodus 16 and God giving the law of Moses to the Israelites, please provide the scriptural basis for this conclusion. I believe you are assuming the point before you show the scriptural basis for it.

Remember, God "created" the Sabbath. The Sabbath is not an institution, it is a creation of God. This was the only thing Adam and Eve were able to see created. God rested the seventh day because He was already counting for them. Adam and Eve had to trust Him, by faith, with counting to seven too. The Bible says, "The just shall live by faith." -- see Habakkuk 2:4 -- Romans 1:17 -- Galatians 3:11 -- Hebrews 10:38

Maybe I'm just a little slow today, but I don't quite comprehend just how Adam and Eve were able to "see" the Sabbath" created. Can you please explain more. In fact, we know from Moses' account, written over 2,500 years after the creation, that God rested on the seventh day, but don't know that He put any requirements for Adam and Eve (and their offspring) to keep this day until He told the Israelites to do it in Exodus. While it is agreed the just shall live by faith, please explain how it is "just" or "faithful" to insert things into God's word that simpy aren't there.

Abraham knew of God's commands way before Moses came around. "Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws."

This passage is in Genesis 16:5. Abraham's obedience began in Acts 12. Does it include observance of the Sabbath? If so, please point out the Scripture(s) that says this.

Was Abraham under the old covenant? or the new? First covenant? or the last? Were the promises made to Adam and Eve the first, the last, or the only, covenant, that has ever really spelled "salvation." ...

In Christ, ken
homepage reference kf1.org
Jesus comes. Period.

Well, Ken, that was certainly a rather lengthy discourse. Not sure that I followed all the points you were trying to make. If not too much trouble, can you just focus on the topic under discussion ... the Sabbath and whether or not we should observe it today?

You describe yourself as "a non-denominational Sabbath keeper." My question is, "Why?" You used a lot of Scriptures in your long post, but have not provided any to show that the Sabbath was preserved prior to the Israelites being commanded to in Exodus 16. Please do so.

And, there's the matter of Acts 15. The law of Moses was given exclusively to the Jews. It ended when Jesus nailed it to the cross i.e. Colossians 2:14, Hebrews 8:6-13. After that, some Jewish Christians tried to make the Gentile converts keep the old law also (Acts 15:1,5). To cut to the chase, the answer to what was required of the Gentiles from the old law is stated in Acts 15:20. Is the Sabbath listed there? Nope. Note carefully the things that are listed. All predated the law of Moses -- which you say the Sabbath does. However, the Sabbath is not listed as a requirement for the Gentiles to observe under the law of Christ. Therefore, I do not observe it.

And, I have to wonder if you really do. You see, observing the Sabbath wasn't just about resting on Saturday, it also included punishing those who didn't i.e. Exodus 31:14-16.

 

[- DRA -]

Originally Posted by - DRA -

I trust that the Lord fulfilled the law like He said in Matthew 5:17-18. As for when the law ended, I believe that it ended when the "better promises" of the second covenant were offered i.e. "their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more" (see Hebrews 8:6-13). Do you believe the Lord forgives sins and remembers them no more under the gospel of Christ? Or, do you wait for better promises than those offered by the blood of Christ?

I too believe this, I am guilty of being a little overzealous in stating my position, I ask forgiveness brother.

I have a problem with the freedom without responsibility crowd, see the gay marriage thread for an example. I do not mean for my position to be interpreted as we are under the letter of the law, that would be blaspheme, but we very much live under the spirit of the law, I think that is what Christ's law is all about. I thank you brother, as iron sharpens iron, you keep me studying the word.

God Bless

Perhaps we are making progress.

Iron sharpening iron is from Proverbs 27:17. I used that passage for a study less than two weeks ago, so it is still fresh in my mind. To me, the passage is one that humbles us as we envision God's word doing its work in our lives. It takes courage sometimes to "challenge" on another to look at spiritual things from a different scriptural perspective than one is accustomed to. I sincerely hope that God's word has helped you see some things differently.

Now, as for the Sabbath, I am still looking for a scriptural basis to observe it today. For Jews that obey the gospel of Christ and attend the worship services of the church on Sundays (i.e. Acts 20:7), but still aren't sure about "working" on Saturdays, I don't have a problem with them doing as their conscience guides them. However, once they begin binding their own conscience as a requirement for others to follow, then there is a problem. I would liken it to circumcision. It was decided in Acts 15 that it isn't necessary for Gentile converts. However, Paul turned right around and had Timothy circumcised in Acts 16:1-3, but later refused to have Titus circumcised in Galatians 2:3-5. The circumstances were different for each occasion, and therefore different actions were taken.

 

[BustedFlat]

Starting with:
Gen 2:3
And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

As Romans 14 sets out there is no scriptural basis that commands us to observe it today. Whatever we decide to do, that we are to do it to the Lord.


As Chuck Missler says:

The sabbath is a time of devotion, not the subjection to rules; it is a benifit to be taken avantage of.

We need to realize that we are not saved by the days we keep, we are saved by the Lord we keep.

 

[- DRA -]

Starting with:
Gen 2:3
And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

As Romans 14 sets out there is no scriptural basis that commands us to observe it today. Whatever we decide to do, that we are to do it to the Lord.

This seems to be a different position that what you previously promoted. Here's your quote from Post #11 on page 2:

Faith_Warrior is right but I would go father.

Where do people get the idea any of the law was abolished?

Mat 5:17¶Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Not only were the commandments not abolished, neither was the law. They were exalted. All of the law. It was fulfilled in that the death therein proscribed was carried out on a Roman cross 2000 years ago. But when Paul says:
“Christ is the end of the law to those that believe" (Romans 10:4); He is not abolishing the law but stating that Jesus had paid with his life so that we do not have to. We are still commanded, by Jesus, to do and teach the law, just that the penalties proscribed were paid in full on that hillside so long ago.

Where do people get the idea gentiles were NOT given the law?

Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another):


It seems to me you are saying that people should be obeying the old law today in this post. Am I mistaken? Have you changed your position on the law? Please explain.

 

[BustedFlat]

The Sabbath is not from the old law, it was sanctified by God in the very first week(Gen 2:3). In Exodus Moses asks that it be remembered, as it was spoken of in Genesis.

There are many things that God taught in Eden that were from before the law and not directly mentioned in the bible. How many of each type of animal was Noah commanded to take on the ark? (Gen 7:2)

How did he know if it was still several generations to the law?

Just because a thing is not mentioned does not mean it was not so. It can be inferred through other scripture.


I am not stating that anyone should or should not observe the sabbath. The only thing that happens if you do not partake in the sabbath is you missed an opportunity to be with God and rest in him.


Col 2:16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:


It is truly the letter of God's word vs. the spirit of God's word. The letter being we do not have to do anything except confess our sins and accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior. But in the spirit of the world we are called to live our lives as the spirit leads us, directed by the word.

I feel that we should recognize a day for the lord, but I rarely do, a few hours is about all I can muster up before I find something that needs doing. I certainly do not tell anyone else they must.



The only thing we are asked, is what ever we do, do it in the Lord.



I do know that God says the temple in the millennial kingdom will only be open on the Sabbath and the new moon and will be closed the six working days.(Eze 46:1)

 

[cavell]

Hey.....Appreciate you all.....and your thoughts on this.........Sabbath.

This link was given me today re sabbath. I have not listened to all. If you have 30 mins to spare.....

Make your own judgement........

http://www.calvaryftl.org/AWMedia/MediaDesk.cfm?fn=A1259&quality=lo&format=RealAudio&key

 

[imaken]

Sorry my previous post got a little longer than i would like. still, (little lol), i had to delete 1300 characters to get it to fit. Mostly, explainations and (((cyberhugs))) to the other posters. Also some apologies for being somewhat of a forum newbie. (to forums in general, Christian Forums specifically) pardon while 'we' learn the interface and all the neat things one can do at "Christian Forums."

DRA asks some important questions. Some have easy answers, some not so.

This is an important subject, this subject of what God wants with respect to Sabbath. I want to have the truth of 'what does God want,' everyday of my life.

This particular post by me is personally one of community and fellowship. I have to work today. I am a roofer by trade. So . . . it may take me a few little bits to comment on the comments, above. But you can know i'll be thinking about it hard until i get it posted.

It seems to me in life some things are simple. Sometimes so simple that the things some call assumptions are just plain obvious to others. The fact this subject of Sabbath is still discussed shows its importance.

PS -- I do not necessarily "observe" Sabbath, I recognize and remember Sabbath. Through Jesus I can understand the point of what is being done here, on Earth, as in Heaven. (not meaning to question the definition of observe, as a sabbathkeeper i do 'observe' the Sabbath, as an act of loving rememberance, just as I observe communion as an act of remembrance of our Lord's sacrifice)

In Jesus, ken
Jesus comes. Period.

((( morning cyberhugs to everyone, just because i want to and i can )))

 

[7thDiscipleofChrist]

I have to agree with DRA on this issue. Christ fulfilled our obligation to the Law and the Sabbath. So I do not feel obligated to observe the Sabbath as the Israelites did. Instead I try to observe a "Sabbath" everyday by Praying, and meditating/studying scripture, and giving Him some of my time every single day.

 

[- DRA -]

The Sabbath is not from the old law, it was sanctified by God in the very first week(Gen 2:3). In Exodus Moses asks that it be remembered, as it was spoken of in Genesis.

Agreed. The Sabbath was sanctified by God i.e. Genesis 2:3. However, what the text doesn't say is that God commanded Adam, Eve, and any of their offspring to observe or rest on that day until God told Moses in Exodus 16.

Agreed. God told the Israelites to remember the Sabbath i.e. Exodus 20:8. Therefore, does that refer back to Exodus 16 (which is the first scriptural account of it being commanded), or does it refer back to Genesis 2? My answer? I'm going with the scriptural evidence. The Israelites were first commanded to keep the Sabbath in Exodus 16, and God commands them to remember it in Exodus 20. Therefore, "remember" is a reference to Exodus 16 -- not Genesis 2. Unless, of course, you have a scriptural basis that establishes a necessary inference to show that the Sabbath was observed by folks prior to the giving of the law to the Israelites. Do you have any passages that do this?

There are many things that God taught in Eden that were from before the law and not directly mentioned in the bible. How many of each type of animal was Noah commanded to take on the ark? ( Gen 7:2)

How did he know if it was still several generations to the law?

Just because a thing is not mentioned does not mean it was not so. It can be inferred through other scripture.

Okay, where are the Scriptures that infer folks kept the Sabbath prior to Exodus 16?

I am not stating that anyone should or should not observe the sabbath. The only thing that happens if you do not partake in the sabbath is you missed an opportunity to be with God and rest in him.

As pointed out previously, this seems to be a change in what you said earlier in the thread. However, it is a step in the right direction. Coming from a Gentile perspective, there were a lot of things the Israelites did under the law of Moses that I do not feel obligated to keep today. Frankly, I feel as if the law of Christ gives me plenty of opportunities to have fellowship with God. The rest I am concerned about is the one discussed in Hebrews 3:7 through 4:11.

Col 2:16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:

The point of this passage? Jesus nailed the old law to the cross (verse 14) i.e. fulfilled it. From that point on, God's people have not been obligated to observe the things previously commanded under the law of Moses.

It is truly the letter of God's word vs. the spirit of God's word. The letter being we do not have to do anything except confess our sins and accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior. But in the spirit of the world we are called to live our lives as the spirit leads us, directed by the word.

The letter versus the Spirit is discussed in both Romans 7:6 and 2 Corinthians 3:6. In both places it is contrasting what the law couldn't do (the law of Moses) versus what the gospel of Christ could do (newness of the Spirit).

I feel that we should recognize a day for the lord, but I rarely do, a few hours is about all I can muster up before I find something that needs doing. I certainly do not tell anyone else they must.

The disciples met on the first day of the week to worship in Acts 20:7. Note also 1 Cor. 16:1-2. The first day of the week is when the disciples contributed their funds. Why not recognize that day? For sure, God expects His people to attend the assemblies of the church (i.e. Hebrews 10:23-25), and takes it as an insult to His Son, His Son's blood, and to the Spirit when they don't (Hebrews 10:26-31). Rather than be overly concerned about a day that God no longer command His people to keep (the Sabbath), I suggest not overlooking the day He has commanded under the gospel of Christ.

... I do know that God says the temple in the millennial kingdom will only be open on the Sabbath and the new moon and will be closed the six working days.(Eze 46:1)

Not to derail the thread, but you and I have discussed the kingdom before (to some extent). Mark 9:1, Colossians 1:13, and Revelation 1:9 tell us the kingdom was established in the first century.

As for the temple in His kingdom, I suggest studying Ephesians 2:19-22. God's people -- Jews and Gentiles combined -- form the temple. When we understand the spiritual nature of His kingdom (John 18:36), we will be better equipped to understand the imagery of the temple in His kingdom.

 

[lily101]

I find this topic extremly interesting and your post very good. Thank you for sharing it.

Although your post makes perfect sense I am a little fuzzy on this topic because of one concept....

I thought that the ten commandments were not part of the law, but rather instruction from God "commandments" not a covenant or contract, but a direct command ... explicit instruction.​

A "command" wouldn't be something requireing fullfilment like a contract or convenant would. Christ wouldn't need to fullfil something that isn't part of a contract, but is instead his instruction. This is where I get confused on whether we're required to keep the Sabbath or not.

Worse yet I also get confused in respect to the question "What exactly is the Sabbath?"

It seems to me that even if we were still required to observe the Sabbath it would be an individual thing. For example who's to say which day is the first and which is the seventh? In order for all of us to use the same day and be accurate about it wouldn't we have to know which day the first Sabbath occured on and count forward from there?

Or would it be an indivudual thing.... A barbers seventh day would be Monday since his work week starts on Tuesday.
I used to work 4-10's mon-thurs would I have 3 days to choose from or would Sunday be my seventh day?
Who's work week actually begins on Sunday thus making Saturday the "right" day for the Sabbath?

If anyone could shed some light on this for me I would greatly appreciate it.

It a very interesting post. Filled with lots of info and scripture.
I Acts God teached us that we should not neglect meeting together with one another dayly. BUT we don't do this anylonger.
And I believe it's the same with honoring the Sabath. We know we should do this, not because of law, not like the priest of the old testament that made it a ritual BUT BECAUSE it's a day to honor God.
We are in such a rush to live life we need to take time to honor God and breath. Breath in the Glory of God!
I agree the sabath should not become an exuce to be lazy IT SHOULD be a day to honor God. you may choose to spend time with your children, your husband and your family do it in honor to God.
Remind your kids in this time what God has done for you or given you. Get away from the TV and interact with one another....we are oneanothers gift from God.
I believe that it's not so much about what day of the week the Sabath is, it's about honoring God.

God bless!

 

[BustedFlat]

Agreed. The Sabbath was sanctified by God i.e. Genesis 2:3. However, what the text doesn't say is that God commanded Adam, Eve, and any of their offspring to observe or rest on that day until God told Moses in Exodus 16.

Agreed. God told the Israelites to remember the Sabbath i.e. Exodus 20:8. Therefore, does that refer back to Exodus 16 (which is the first scriptural account of it being commanded), or does it refer back to Genesis 2? My answer? I'm going with the scriptural evidence. The Israelites were first commanded to keep the Sabbath in Exodus 16, and God commands them to remember it in Exodus 20. Therefore, "remember" is a reference to Exodus 16 -- not Genesis 2. Unless, of course, you have a scriptural basis that establishes a necessary inference to show that the Sabbath was observed by folks prior to the giving of the law to the Israelites. Do you have any passages that do this?

Okay, where are the Scriptures that infer folks kept the Sabbath prior to Exodus 16?

Where does it say they did not? The manna only comes for 6 days, there is nothing noting that this is strange, or something different for them. We are left to assume this is something they would know about, even if not practiced.


Again how did Noah know clean from unclean animals several generations before the law? No where is it written but he had to know it to get the manifest done on the ark.

As pointed out previously, this seems to be a change in what you said earlier in the thread. However, it is a step in the right direction. Coming from a Gentile perspective, there were a lot of things the Israelites did under the law of Moses that I do not feel obligated to keep today. Frankly, I feel as if the law of Christ gives me plenty of opportunities to have fellowship with God. The rest I am concerned about is the one discussed in Hebrews 3:7 through 4:11.

God Bless you. That is all you need to be concerned with.

 

[- DRA -]

Originally Posted by - DRA -

Agreed. The Sabbath was sanctified by God i.e. Genesis 2:3. However, what the text doesn't say is that God commanded Adam, Eve, and any of their offspring to observe or rest on that day until God told Moses in Exodus 16.

Agreed. God told the Israelites to remember the Sabbath i.e. Exodus 20:8. Therefore, does that refer back to Exodus 16 (which is the first scriptural account of it being commanded), or does it refer back to Genesis 2? My answer? I'm going with the scriptural evidence. The Israelites were first commanded to keep the Sabbath in Exodus 16, and God commands them to remember it in Exodus 20. Therefore, "remember" is a reference to Exodus 16 -- not Genesis 2. Unless, of course, you have a scriptural basis that establishes a necessary inference to show that the Sabbath was observed by folks prior to the giving of the law to the Israelites. Do you have any passages that do this?

Okay, where are the Scriptures that infer folks kept the Sabbath prior to Exodus 16?

Where does it say they did not? The manna only comes for 6 days, there is nothing noting that this is strange, or something different for them. We are left to assume this is something they would know about, even if not practiced.

Again how did Noah know clean from unclean animals several generations before the law? No where is it written but he had to know it to get the manifest done on the ark.

As for Noah, he was a man of faith (i.e. Hebrews 11:7), which comes by listening to God (Romans 10:17). Therefore, since Noah understood the difference between clean and unclean animals in Genesis 7, and Noah was a man of faith, which comes by hearing what God tells us, the inference is that God told Noah about unclean animals - even though it is not recorded.

Now, please show us how the inference works for the Sabbath prior to Exodus 16. I believe you have to show us that the Sabbath was kept or observed prior to the giving of the law of Moses. Then we could infer they must have been instructed about it. Without the Scriptural evidence, there can be no necessary inference. Only wishful thinking.

Back to my earlier question: "Okay, where are the Scriptures that infer folks kept the Sabbath prior to Exodus 16?" I think I've done a lot of the work for you. All you have to do is provide the Scriptures that show the patriarchs kept the Sabbath prior to God commanding the Israelites to keep it.

Patiently waiting . . . . . . . . . . . . .

 

[imaken]

-- Feeling the following Scripture should be noted now, please allow me to interject it. I am working on another specific post in this conversation, yet it may take a few more days to get completed.

With respect to the question of "How much did the antedeluvian people before the flood know and practice by way of communion with God" the following should be noted:

Genesis 4:25-26 -- And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.
And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD. -- Genesis 4:25-26

It was not until Enos was born that men began to pray. Seth, Enos father, wasn't born until Adam was 130 years old. (Enos born in Adam's 235th year by my calculation) Men started praying after that. -- see Genesis 5:1-6

Now there is something else, prayer, most Christians believe Godly men should do which they did not do immediately after the fall. If i had been Adam, I would have started praying right after the fall. But we all know how humans can be, with procrastination and 'hurt feelings,' other things to do, and all. Maybe Satan tempted Eve on Sabbath while God was resting. Maybe some kept Sabbath some did not. Remember, Spiritual things are Spiritually discerned. -- 1 Corinthians 2:14
My apologies, to anyone who thinks this is inappropriate to mention. I think it is relevant.

your brother in Jesus, ken
Jesus comes. Period.

 

[BustedFlat]

Okay, where are the Scriptures that infer folks kept the Sabbath prior to Exodus 16?

Where does it say they did not?

 

[MaidforHim]

-- Feeling the following Scripture should be noted now, please allow me to interject it. I am working on another specific post in this conversation, yet it may take a few more days to get completed.

With respect to the question of "How much did the antedeluvian people before the flood know and practice by way of communion with God" the following should be noted:

Genesis 4:25-26 -- And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.
And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD. -- Genesis 4:25-26

It was not until Enos was born that men began to pray. Seth, Enos father, wasn't born until Adam was 130 years old. (Enos born in Adam's 235th year by my calculation) Men started praying after that. -- see Genesis 5:1-6

Now there is something else, prayer, most Christians believe Godly men should do which they did not do immediately after the fall. If i had been Adam, I would have started praying right after the fall. But we all know how humans can be, with procrastination and 'hurt feelings,' other things to do, and all. Maybe Satan tempted Eve on Sabbath while God was resting. Maybe some kept Sabbath some did not. Remember, Spiritual things are Spiritually discerned. -- 1 Corinthians 2:14
My apologies, to anyone who thinks this is inappropriate to mention. I think it is relevant.

your brother in Jesus, ken
Jesus comes. Period.

There would be no need for the type of prayer we have today if we could talk directly to God which I believe Cain and Abel both could. No doubt Seth could too. God directly asked Cain where Abel was and he answered directly.

I am not sure the term "then began men to call upon the name of the LORD" is speaking directly about prayer, if it is then perhaps it isn't until this point that men were not able to converse directly with God.

Either way, praiseing the Lord on the Sabbath could be done directly through conversation just as easily and more directly than through the type of prayer we have today.

Maybe I am not getting your point

 

[- DRA -]

-- Feeling the following Scripture should be noted now, please allow me to interject it. I am working on another specific post in this conversation, yet it may take a few more days to get completed.

With respect to the question of "How much did the antedeluvian people before the flood know and practice by way of communion with God" the following should be noted:

Genesis 4:25-26 -- And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.
And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD. -- Genesis 4:25-26

It was not until Enos was born that men began to pray. Seth, Enos father, wasn't born until Adam was 130 years old. (Enos born in Adam's 235th year by my calculation) Men started praying after that. -- see Genesis 5:1-6

Now there is something else, prayer, most Christians believe Godly men should do which they did not do immediately after the fall. If i had been Adam, I would have started praying right after the fall. But we all know how humans can be, with procrastination and 'hurt feelings,' other things to do, and all. Maybe Satan tempted Eve on Sabbath while God was resting. Maybe some kept Sabbath some did not. Remember, Spiritual things are Spiritually discerned. -- 1 Corinthians 2:14
My apologies, to anyone who thinks this is inappropriate to mention. I think it is relevant.

your brother in Jesus, ken
Jesus comes. Period.

I used red-bolded font to point out the part of your post that is actually relevant to our discussion. "Maybe" is used 2x. Why use the word "maybe." Why isn't it sufficient just to use what God's word say? Why try to read things into the text when there's no basis for it? Now, if there's a reason to read "Sabbath" into the text of Genesis 3 (the fall), please share the reason with us.

 

[- DRA -]

Originally Posted by - DRA -

Okay, where are the Scriptures that infer folks kept the Sabbath prior to Exodus 16?

Where does it say they did not?

I wasn't aware the Scriptures had to say they didn't keep the Sabbath prior to Exodus 16. You are trying to infer they did, but can demonstrate no scriptural basis to show how your reasoning can be valid.

Frankly, I think you are BustedFlat (pun intended). The Scriptures do NOT say, infer, or imply the Sabbath was observed prior to Exodus 16. Obviously, if you had some scriptural evidence for us to consider you would produce it. Why not just "speak as the oracles [words] of God (1 Peter 4:11a)?

 

[- DRA -]

There would be no need for the type of prayer we have today if we could talk directly to God which I believe Cain and Abel both could. No doubt Seth could too. God directly asked Cain where Abel was and he answered directly.

I am not sure the term "then began men to call upon the name of the LORD" is speaking directly about prayer, if it is then perhaps it isn't until this point that men were not able to converse directly with God.

Either way, praiseing the Lord on the Sabbath could be done directly through conversation just as easily and more directly than through the type of prayer we have today.

Maybe I am not getting your point

Please explain exactly how the Sabbath got into the events of Genesis 3 and those that follow?

 

[BustedFlat]

Originally Posted by - DRA -

Okay, where are the Scriptures that infer folks kept the Sabbath prior to Exodus 16?



I wasn't aware the Scriptures had to say they didn't keep the Sabbath prior to Exodus 16. You are trying to infer they did, but can demonstrate no scriptural basis to show how your reasoning can be valid.

Frankly, I think you are BustedFlat (pun intended). The Scriptures do NOT say, infer, or imply the Sabbath was observed prior to Exodus 16. Obviously, if you had some scriptural evidence for us to consider you would produce it. Why not just "speak as the oracles [words] of God (1 Peter 4:11a)?

The Sabbath is laid out in Gen 2. Now point out where it is said that they did not keep it after that?

 

[- DRA -]

Originally Posted by: - DRA -

I wasn't aware the Scriptures had to say they didn't keep the Sabbath prior to Exodus 16. You are trying to infer they did, but can demonstrate no scriptural basis to show how your reasoning can be valid.

Frankly, I think you are BustedFlat (pun intended). The Scriptures do NOT say, infer, or imply the Sabbath was observed prior to Exodus 16. Obviously, if you had some scriptural evidence for us to consider you would produce it. Why not just "speak as the oracles [words] of God (1 Peter 4:11a)?

The Sabbath is laid out in Gen 2. Now point out where it is said that they did not keep it after that?

Genesis 2:3 - "Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made."

Please point out exactly where in that passage, or another, that states, infers, or implies that they kept the Sabbath.

Consider the word "sanctified" that appears in that passage. It is the Hebrew word "qadash." It means that God set it apart, or made it Holy. Let's note some (just a few) of the other things that God sanctified (qadash) ...
The firstborn in Ex. 13:2
The Israelites in Ex. 19:10
Mt. Sinai in Ex. 19:23
Aaron and his sons in Ex. 28:41
The altar in Ex. 29:36-37
The tabernacle in Ex. 40:1
Make sure you have the right definition for the word and its usages in mind before forming conclusions about what it means in Genesis 2:3.