sabbath was made....

[Byfaithalone1]

mark 2:27

jesus simply states "that Sabbath was made for man". the phrase was made. is the greek verb "egeneto" aroist middle indicative, 3 person singlar. which is a complicated way of saying the the from the speekers prespective the action to place a singular moment in time some time in the past.

the text and the ramifications both indicate that the sabbath was not mearly Jewish, but was ment for humanity, and i was for his benifit. it would later signify the sign of the covenat between God and the Jews.

Mark 2:27 Greek Texts and Analysis

If man was not made for the sabbath, will it be the great final test that will determine whether he will ultimately receive the seal of God or the mark of the beast?

It's interesting how often only half of this widely-quoted statement is offered.

BFA

 

[VictorC]

If man was not made for the sabbath, will it be the great final test that will determine whether he will ultimately receive the seal of God or the mark of the beast?

It's interesting how often only half of this widely-quoted statement is offered.

BFA

And the half that is offered has an impact that goes unnoticed.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

If man was not made for the sabbath, will it be the great final test that will determine whether he will ultimately receive the seal of God or the mark of the beast?

It's interesting how often only half of this widely-quoted statement is offered.

BFA

i don't think the issue framed the way the sda chruch puts it is correct.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

this thread is now in GT. for more participation

 

[Byfaithalone1]

i don't think the issue framed the way the sda chruch puts it is correct.

I should hope not. If SDAism is correct, then our salvation is contingent on that which we do and don't do. Now THAT is a scary proposition.

BFA

 

[Adventist Dissident]

I should hope not. If SDAism is correct, then our salvation is contingent on that which we do and don't do. Now THAT is a scary proposition.

BFA

that being said i think they can draw sabbath observance from revelation, just not Sunday being the mark of the beast.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

that being said i think they can draw sabbath observance from revelation, just not Sunday being the mark of the beast.

Tell me more.

BFA

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Tell me more.

BFA

when i look at the element in revelation i can see that there are only a few place where

1. the creator is mentions , creation & sabbath commandment
2. wroship - sabbath commandment
3. seas and spring of living water -creation and sabbath commandment
4. sign or seal- creation & sabbath commandment.

Plus historically Sabbath was used as a sign of faithfulness and loyality while in hostel, pagan territory. see the notes in the Zondervan "chronological bible on Nehimiah. this is when the Sabbath took on the prominate role that we see in the NT.

In the context of Reveleation and the OT imagary and history, I believe John is saying that the Creator is the final issue, that is what we see today. That is why i can see the Sabbath in what they say. that being said.

I cannot see how Sunday is the mark of the beast. You can search the entire bible and never find a referen to a mark being equal to the 1st day of the week, or the day of the sun. it is not there. you can find that a mark was give to

1. cain for murder and his banishment
2. Exodus when iseral mark the doorpost with blood and the Egyptians did not.
3. In jeremiah, when people are marked for the abominiation done in the temple.
4. i think there is one more but i can't remember,
never for a day though. that is why i reject sunday as that mark of the beast. that and the fact, you can trace sunday to Paul, Apollos, Prycilla & Aquilla. it is hard to see it being the mark of the beast.

i differe from the SDAs on the origin and purpose of sunday.
i also differ from mainline christian on the purpose of sunday.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

1. the creator is mentions , creation & sabbath commandment

"God as creator" is mentioned many times throughout Scripture. Consider the Psalms. Consider the creation week that occurred before man was commanded to do anything special on the seventh day. "God as creator" is as linked to the sabbath as it is to everything we see in the natural world. Our reminders of "God as creator" are limitless.

2. wroship - sabbath commandment

What's the connection? God never limited the concept of worship to one day out of seven.

3. seas and spring of living water -creation and sabbath commandment

I see no connect with the sabbath here.

4. sign or seal- creation & sabbath commandment.

What about circumcision? Do you see that in Revelation too? What do we do with the fact that believers have ALREADY BEEN SEALED and how does this relate to Revelation?

Plus historically Sabbath was used as a sign of faithfulness and loyality while in hostel, pagan territory.

For whom?

In the context of Reveleation and the OT imagary and history, I believe John is saying that the Creator is the final issue, that is what we see today.

I see parts of Revelation being about WHO we worship, not WHEN.

that being said. I cannot see how Sunday is the mark of the beast. You can search the entire bible and never find a reference to a mark being equal to the 1st day of the week, or the day of the sun. it is not there. you can find that a mark was give tothat is why i reject sunday as that mark of the beast. that and the fact, you can trace sunday to Paul, Apollos, Prycilla & Aquilla. it is hard to see it being the mark of the beast.

Like you, I see no connection.

i differe from the SDAs on the origin and purpose of sunday.
i also differ from mainline christian on the purpose of sunday.

Where I am, Christians see Sunday as a day to gather for worship. They also see Wednesday as a day to gather for worship. And they see Saturday evening as a day to gather for worship. And, if you're in the choir, they see Thursday as a day to gather for worship. I don't sense that there is anything special about Sunday except that it is yet another opportunity to worship God. I see no reason to take issue with that. I marvel that certain SDAs do (so much so that they identify people who attend corporate worship on Sunday as "daughters of the harlot").

Just one guy's perspective . . .
BFA

 

[Adventist Dissident]

]"God as creator" is mentioned many times throughout Scripture. Consider the Psalms. Consider the creation week that occurred before man was commanded to do anything special on the seventh day. "God as creator" is as linked to the sabbath as it is to everything we see in the natural world. Our reminders of "God as creator" are limitless.

yes but no where is he memorialized except in the sabbath.

What's the connection? God never limited the concept of worship to one day out of seven.

Again an Invalid Argument, He has said to observe the 7th day as Holy, no other day has this requirment.

I see no connect with the sabbath here.

you see what you want to see.

What about circumcision? Do you see that in Revelation too? What do we do with the fact that believers have ALREADY BEEN SEALED and how does this relate to Revelation?

IT IS AN IN VALID ARGUMENT. I AM NOT A JEW, THE BLESSING OF THE 7TH DAY TOOK PLACE A CREATION.


For whom?

I see parts of Revelation being about WHO we worship, not WHEN.

ya but WHO we worship has said WHEN to worhip, because It is about Him NOT us.


Like you, I see no connection.

Where I am, Christians see Sunday as a day to gather for worship. They also see Wednesday as a day to gather for worship. And they see Saturday evening as a day to gather for worship. And, if you're in the choir, they see Thursday as a day to gather for worship. I don't sense that there is anything special about Sunday except that it is yet another opportunity to worship God. I see no reason to take issue with that. I marvel that certain SDAs do (so much so that they identify people who attend corporate worship on Sunday as "daughters of the harlot").

that is based on bad history. sunday was never ment to be a replacement for the Sabbath,

 

[VictorC]

THE BLESSING OF THE 7TH DAY TOOK PLACE A CREATION.

That is God's rest, that the sabbath never provided. Pointing this out as you do doesn't support a premise supporting the sabbath, and appears to dismiss the permanent rest we have entered into: "For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His" (Hebrews 4:10).

 

[Adventist Dissident]

That is God's rest, that the sabbath never provided. Pointing this out as you do doesn't support a premise supporting the sabbath, and appears to dismiss the permanent rest we have entered into: "For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His" (Hebrews 4:10).

Not it's not, God rested and he blessed, they are 2 different thing. God did 3 things on the 7day

By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. 3And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.
1. God rested
2. God blessed
3. God made holy


As for Hebrews 4, the writer of Hebrews is makeing a comapirson between the completed Nature of God's work at Creation and the Completed nature of God's work of Salvation. He make no comment on the holiness and blessing of the Day

 

[VictorC]

Not it's not, God rested and he blessed, they are 2 different thing. God did 3 things on the 7day

By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. 3And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.
1. God rested
2. God blessed
3. God made holy

I agree. Look at the text of Genesis 2:

1 ¶ Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished.
2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.
3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.​

Saying "no it's not" clearly contradicts the historical record. The seventh day of creation was God's rest, and was not "made for man" as the repeating sabbath was thousands of years later. Examining Exodus 20:11 should cause one to discern that the sabbath wasn't blessed until 2500 years after the seventh day of creation.

As for Hebrews 4, the writer of Hebrews is makeing a comapirson between the completed Nature of God's work at Creation and the Completed nature of God's work of Salvation. He make no comment on the holiness and blessing of the Day

The author of Hebrews 4 pointed out that God's rest remained a promise to attain by those who already had the sabbath, and Hebrews 4:4 quotes directly from Genesis 2:2 to show the origin of this rest. He distinguishes the sabbath from the seventh day of creation as faithfully as Moses did.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

I agree. Look at the text of Genesis 2:

1 ¶ Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished.
2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.
3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
​

Saying "no it's not" clearly contradicts the historical record. The seventh day of creation was God's rest, and was not "made for man" as the repeating sabbath was thousands of years later. Examining Exodus 20:11 should cause one to discern that the sabbath wasn't blessed until 2500 years after the seventh day of creation.

The author of Hebrews 4 pointed out that God's rest remained a promise to attain by those who already had the sabbath, and Hebrews 4:4 quotes directly from Genesis 2:2 to show the origin of this rest. He distinguishes the sabbath from the seventh day of creation as faithfully as Moses did.

the issue is not the rest, but the blessing and holiness of the day.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

yes but no where is he memorialized except in the sabbath.

He is memorialized in any number of holy convocations, including the Passover and the Day of Atonement.

He is memorialized in the trees, animals, bodies of water, fish, birds and sky that he created. All give testimony of Him.

Again an Invalid Argument, He has said to observe the 7th day as Holy, no other day has this requirment.

In what way does this limit worship to one day out of seven? Is it your belief that men cannot worship God during other days of the week? Is that what you're telling us?

Further, what do you do with the other convocations that God specifically described as holy?

IT IS AN IN VALID ARGUMENT. I AM NOT A JEW, THE BLESSING OF THE 7TH DAY TOOK PLACE A CREATION.

This is your unsubstantiated claim.

BTW, what is the difference between circumcision and the sabbath? Did God fulfill one and not the other?

I see parts of Revelation being about WHO we worship, not WHEN.
ya but WHO we worship has said WHEN to worhip, because It is about Him NOT us.

Yet another concept that is built on the theory that God limited worship to one day out of seven. How many of the holy convocations took place outside of the seventh day?

the issue is not the rest, but the blessing and holiness of the day.

If the issue is not the rest, then the entire intent of the day is lost.

sunday was never ment to be a replacement for the Sabbath

On this, we wholeheartedly agree.

It was the seventh day, not Sunday, that was set aside by Israelites as a special day of rest to remember their exodus from Egypt.

It was the seventh day, not Sunday, that was set aside by Israelites as a day in which special animal sacrifices were offered.

I do not believe that Sunday replaced the seventh day for these purposes.

BFA

 

[Adventist Dissident]

This is your unsubstantiated claim.

how many times are we going to have to show you Genesis 2:1-4 it says it right there in the text. the 7th day was blessed and made holy @ creation. your argument is that it was a 1 time blessing, not to be repeated. you keep changing your arguments.

BTW, what is the difference between circumcision and the sabbath? Did God fulfill one and not the other?

in your thinking nothing. but since we are not back in the Garden, it goes with out saying that there is stil more to come

 

[VictorC]

the issue is not the rest, but the blessing and holiness of the day.

At this point I'm sure that there is an emotional dedication to the sabbath that doesn't permit you to respond to the information that is posted to you repeatedly. Maybe this discussion would be served best if you would answer a question that addresses the motive you have.

What is the reason that you don't want the blessing of the seventh day, and instead desire to return to the sabbath that never provided it?​

 

[Byfaithalone1]

how many times are we going to have to show you Genesis 2:1-4 it says it right there in the text. the 7th day was blessed and made holy @ creation.

There is no command to men in Genesis 2. This is your opinion. We could swap opinions all day, but on this subject, that's all they are.

your argument is that it was a 1 time blessing, not to be repeated.

No, actually, that's not my argument at all. Never has been. If I were to hazzard a guess (and that's all it would be since the Bible does not say one way or the other) I would guess that God set aside a time and then later gave a command to a group of people who really needed that time to remind them of the things that God had done for them. This is why the sabbath is not only a memorial of creation but also a memorial of the exodus from Egypt.

in your thinking nothing.

Actually, it seems that Jesus had a similar train of thought. He indicated that not one jot or tittle would pass from the law until all had been accomplished.

Since you would like to observe the sabbath as God commanded it, why don't you offer special animal sacrifices each seventh day?

BFA

 

[Adventist Dissident]

At this point I'm sure that there is an emotional dedication to the sabbath that doesn't permit you to respond to the information that is posted to you repeatedly. Maybe this discussion would be served best if you would answer a question that addresses the motive you have.

What is the reason that you don't want the blessing of the seventh day, and instead desire to return to the sabbath that never provided it?
​

Victor why do you want to make this personal? i simply do not believe as you do. i don't see it. When are you going to learn that simply because you post it and believe does mean you are correct. every time you get in a corner you fall back on personall attacks & you change the subject. i have successfully countered your arguments. you must go back to the drawing board. it won't work the way you want to do it.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

There is no command to men in Genesis 2. This is your opinion. We could swap opinions all day, but on this subject, that's all they are.

the problem is that it is not my opions the scripture says it was blessed and made holy, that is not my opionin, the question is weather the blessing and holiness was a 1 time event or was it ment to be a repeating pattern. that is the issue.
A far as the commands, go when God made the earth, he made everything good, there was no need to command the to do what good people do normally, except stay away from evil. in this case the TOKOGE. there was no need to remind them to spend time with God they already wanted to.

No, actually, that's not my argument at all. Never has been. If I were to hazzard a guess (and that's all it would be since the Bible does not say one way or the other) I would guess that God set aside a time and then later gave a command to a group of people who really needed that time to remind them of the things that God had done for them. This is why the sabbath is not only a memorial of creation but also a memorial of the exodus from Egypt.

we don't need a time set a side

Actually, it seems that Jesus had a similar train of thought. He indicated that not one jot or tittle would pass from the law until all had been accomplished.

so has all been accomplished.

Since you would like to observe the sabbath as God commanded it, why don't you offer special animal sacrifices each seventh day?

Not gonna work.