sabbath was made....

[Adventist Dissident]

mark 2:27

jesus simply states "that Sabbath was made for man". the phrase was made. is the greek verb "egeneto" aroist middle indicative, 3 person singlar. which is a complicated way of saying the the from the speekers prespective the action to place a singular moment in time some time in the past.

the text and the ramifications both indicate that the sabbath was not mearly Jewish, but was ment for humanity, and i was for his benifit. it would later signify the sign of the covenat between God and the Jews.

http://biblos.com/mark/2-27.htm

 

[Kira Light]

Oddly, instead of benefiting man the Sabbath will get 99.9% of Christians tossed into hell. It's ironic that this nice thing God did in making us a day will be reason BILLIONS of Christians burn. Sad that Jesus wasn't a little more clear.

 

[k4c]

Oddly, instead of benefiting man the Sabbath will get 99.9% of Christians tossed into hell. It's ironic that this nice thing God did in making us a day will be reason BILLIONS of Christians burn. Sad that Jesus wasn't a little more clear.

God created sex to be a good thing too and how many will sex take down?

 

[Kira Light]

God created sex to be a good thing too and how many will sex take down?

Sex will take down those who put it before God. Much like those who put the money, drugs, or the 4th commandment before God.

It was nice that at least God was clear on how to deal with sex.

 

[VictorC]

mark 2:27

jesus simply states "that Sabbath was made for man". the phrase was made. is the greek verb "egeneto" aroist middle indicative, 3 person singlar. which is a complicated way of saying the the from the speekers prespective the action to place a singular moment in time some time in the past.

the text and the ramifications both indicate that the sabbath was not mearly Jewish, but was ment for humanity, and i was for his benifit. it would later signify the sign of the covenat between God and the Jews.

Mark 2:27 Greek Texts and Analysis

I'm not sure what you hope to convey by pointing out the created nature of the sabbath, as it's a distinction that is generally taken for granted. Jesus stated "the sabbath was made for man", revealing it as a created entity that wasn't the seventh day recorded in the Genesis account, which was God's rest from His work of creation.

Pointing out that the language Jesus used didn't specify the sabbath as a Jewish ordinance doesn't alter the fact that no other people ever received the sabbath or the law that ordained it, as Moses pointed out in a rhetorical question found in Deuteronomy 4:8.

7 "For what great nation is there that has God so near to it, as the LORD our God is to us, for whatever reason we may call upon Him?
8 "And what great nation is there that has such statutes and righteous judgments as are in all this law which I set before you this day?​

The sabbath was an exclusive component "in all this law" no other nation had.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

mark 2:27

jesus simply states "that Sabbath was made for man". the phrase was made. is the greek verb "egeneto" aroist middle indicative, 3 person singlar. which is a complicated way of saying the the from the speekers prespective the action to place a singular moment in time some time in the past.

the text and the ramifications both indicate that the sabbath was not mearly Jewish, but was ment for humanity, and i was for his benifit. it would later signify the sign of the covenat between God and the Jews.

Mark 2:27 Greek Texts and Analysis

any one care to comment on the textual anaylsis link

 

[Adventist Dissident]

I'm not sure what you hope to convey by pointing out the created nature of the sabbath, as it's a distinction that is generally taken for granted.

the greek word is "egeneto" eyveto, which mean to begt or to create or to bring in to existance. the issue is the origin of the sabbath. christ is making a reference to creation here like it or not, now the LORD HIMSELF says that is was made for Man, and that is the generic, anthropos, meaning humanity. again further linking it to the creation of man. Now notice it dose not say the Jews only, for the jew is was the sign of the covenant, for every one else it is not.

Jesus stated "the sabbath was made for man", revealing it as a created entity that wasn't the seventh day recorded in the Genesis account, which was God's rest from His work of creation.

if you are refering to hebres 4 here, that is not what hebrews 4 is saying, hebrew is making a comarision of the completeness of creation with the completness of Salvation, that christ fisished his work at creation and it was complete, just like christ fishished his work on the cross and it was complete.

Pointing out that the language Jesus used didn't specify the sabbath as a Jewish ordinance doesn't alter the fact that no other people ever received the sabbath or the law that ordained it,

my other therad is dealing with this. summry, i ran accross a link about the difference between the hebrew way of thinking and the greek way of thinking. hebrew is a verb based language,(action)a noun based language. your priarmy object to the old testiment usage of sabbath is that it is not a NOUN or thing. well there is one problem if the languages in usage prior to the giving of the covenant were Verb or ACTION based languages then the sabbath would have been expressed as a VERB or ACTION. that is exactly what you see in the old testiment and in the languages where sabbath is mentioned before 1446.bc. your objection is renderef useless. on this point.

Moses pointed out in a rhetorical question found in Deuteronomy 4:8.

7 "For what great nation is there that has God so near to it, as the LORD our God is to us, for whatever reason we may call upon Him?
8 "And what great nation is there that has such statutes and righteous judgments as are in all this law which I set before you this day?
​

The sabbath was an exclusive component "in all this law" no other nation had.[/
​

again this dose not say that the sabbath was not given to the man, just affirming the special status that Iseral had is perseving Gods laws. so this cannot be said. you conclusion is with out merit
​

 

[VictorC]

the greek word is "egeneto" eyveto, which mean to begt or to create or to bring in to existance. the issue is the origin of the sabbath. christ is making a reference to creation here like it or not, now the LORD HIMSELF says that is was made for Man, and that is the generic, anthropos, meaning humanity. again further linking it to the creation of man. Now notice it dose not say the Jews only, for the jew is was the sign of the covenant, for every one else it is not.

if you are refering to hebres 4 here, that is not what hebrews 4 is saying, hebrew is making a comarision of the completeness of creation with the completness of Salvation, that christ fisished his work at creation and it was complete, just like christ fishished his work on the cross and it was complete.

my other therad is dealing with this. summry, i ran accross a link about the difference between the hebrew way of thinking and the greek way of thinking. hebrew is a verb based language,(action)a noun based language. your priarmy object to the old testiment usage of sabbath is that it is not a NOUN or thing. well there is one problem if the languages in usage prior to the giving of the covenant were Verb or ACTION based languages then the sabbath would have been expressed as a VERB or ACTION. that is exactly what you see in the old testiment and in the languages where sabbath is mentioned before 1446.bc. your objection is renderef useless. on this point.

You went through a long process that was obviously difficult for you (if your spelling is any indication) that came to the same conclusion I did: the sabbath was a created entity just as Jesus said it was. In Hebrew, nouns are nouns and verbs are verbs, and the manner you unravel linguistics is entertaining but irrelevant. Nothing I posted was sourced from Hebrews, but from the same text you used (Mark 2:27) and from Deuteronomy 4.

again this dose not say that the sabbath was not given to the man, just affirming the special status that Iseral had is perseving Gods laws. so this cannot be said. you conclusion is with out merit

Yes, it can be said, and it was Moses who said that the law that ordained the sabbath was exclusive to the children of Israel. Nehemiah 9:14 also attributes the origin of the sabbath with Moses. Moses used the rhetorical question "what great nation is there that has such statutes and righteous judgments as are in all this law which I set before you this day?", showing the manner of the ordinances contained in the law were exclusive to Israel.

Now you would like to contend that the covenant law mediated by Moses, the Ten Commandments and the book of the law, say nothing about the sabbath? To suggest this latest idea of yours would be easily refuted would be today's understatement.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

You went through a long process that was obviously difficult for you (if your spelling is any indication) that came to the same conclusion I did: the sabbath was a created entity just as Jesus said it was.

In Hebrew, nouns are nouns and verbs are verbs,

are you a hebrew scholar?

and the manner you unravel linguistics is entertaining but irrelevant. Nothing I posted was sourced from Hebrews, but from the same text you used (Mark 2:27) and from Deuteronomy 4.

Yes, it can be said, and it was Moses who said that the law that ordained the sabbath was exclusive to the children of Israel. Nehemiah 9:14 also attributes the origin of the sabbath with Moses. Moses used the rhetorical question "what great nation is there that has such statutes and righteous judgments as are in all this law which I set before you this day?", showing the manner of the ordinances contained in the law were exclusive to Israel.

Now you would like to contend that the covenant law mediated by Moses, the Ten Commandments and the book of the law, say nothing about the sabbath? To suggest this latest idea of yours would be easily refuted would be today's understatement.

victor, do you have anything useful to say. how about why i should reject the information affirmed by contless experts and accepted by you. I know you don't like the answer, but that is called being a Adult, why should any one listen to you? you have not met the objection with a counter argument.

Arugment Summary
Victors Objection - there is no sabbath Noun(thing) in the OT. Why is that

Answer - Hebrew is a verb (action) based language, thing are described by what they do, with implication under stood.

Victors ojection: NAHa, NO way, i don't like your answer. Verbs are verbs and nouns are nouns. I have no answer for you so i am going to make fun of your spelling. Ha ha I win.

Answer: See i told you victor could not handel this discussion.

 

[VictorC]

Arugment Summary
Victors Objection - there is no sabbath Noun(thing) in the OT. Why is that

Before embarking on yet another episode of rejected posts, carefully review what I had pointed out. The objection that there is no sabbath contained in the OT is a conclusion forced upon by what you had written, and not me. Correct your mistake before moving on.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Before embarking on yet another episode of rejected posts, carefully review what I had pointed out. The objection that there is no sabbath contained in the OT is a conclusion forced upon by what you had written, and not me. Correct your mistake before moving on.

victor, i did read what you said and it was irrevalent as always. it is not on the topic.

why was my analysis wrong.
why was it not a reference to creation

 

[VictorC]

victor, i did read what you said and it was irrevalent as always. it is not on the topic.

why was my analysis wrong.
why was it not a refercne to creation

No reference to creation was made. You stated that the applicability of the sabbath extended beyond the law that contained it exclusively, which concludes that Moses lied when he stated no one else had the law exclusive to Israel and the documentation easily garnered showing the sabbath is contained in the law mediated by Moses.

Moses didn't lie.
Your premise is a complete fabrication that can't be reconciled with the testimony Moses provided.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

No reference to creation was made. You stated that the applicability of the sabbath extended beyond the law that contained it exclusively, which concludes that Moses lied when he stated no one else had the law exclusive to Israel and the documentation easily garnered showing the sabbath is contained in the law mediated by Moses.

Moses didn't lie.
Your premise is a complete fabrication that can't be reconciled with the testimony Moses provided.

circular logic, no i did not say that moses lied, victor your intrepration is the probelm

you know very well that all the 9 other command are listed before exodus. so either moses lied or your intrepretation is not correct. you are using circular logic

 

[Adventist Dissident]

No reference to creation was made.

False

Strong's Greek Dictionary: 1096. ginomai

to come into being, to happen, to become​

Original Word: γίνομαι
Transliteration: ginomai
Phonetic Spelling: (ghin'-om-ahee)
Short Definition: happen

Word Origin
from a prim. root gen-
Definition
to come into being, to happen, to become
NASB Word Usage
accomplished (1), appeared (3), arise (1), arises (2), arose (6), arrived (3), became (53), become (83), becomes (8), becoming (2), been (12), been brought (1), been done (1), been made (2), been...came (1), began (1), behaved (1), being (2), come into being (1), being carried (1), being done (2), being made (2), born (5), breaking* (1), came (45), came into being (2), came to pass (2), come (16), comes (1), comes to pass (1), coming (1), dawn (1), decided* (1), developing (1), done (20), drawing (1), during (1), elapsed (1), existed* (1), falling (1), feeling (1), fell (6), finished (1), followed (1), formed (3), found (2), get (4), give (1), got (1), granted (1), grown* (1), had (1), happen (6), happened (46), happening (5), happens (3), has (3), join* (1), joined (3), made (15), occur (3), occurred (18), performed (4), prove (7), proved (6), proving (1), put (1), reached (2), realized (1), results (2), show (1), spent (1), split (1), spoken (1), starting (1), take place (16), taken (2), taken place (5), takes place (1), taking place (3), there arose (1), thundered* (1), took place (7), turned (1), turns (3), would (1).

NAS Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible with Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Dictionaries
Copyright © 1981, 1998 by The Lockman Foundation
All rights reserved Lockman.org​

be brought to pass, happen
A prolongation and middle voice form of a primary verb; to cause to be ("gen"-erate), i.e. (reflexively) to become (come into being), used with great latitude (literal, figurative, intensive, etc.) -- arise, be assembled, be(-come, -fall, -have self), be brought (to pass), (be) come (to pass), continue, be divided, draw, be ended, fall, be finished, follow, be found, be fulfilled, + God forbid, grow, happen, have, be kept, be made, be married, be ordained to be, partake, pass, be performed, be published, require, seem, be showed, X soon as it was, sound, be taken, be turned, use, wax, will, would, be wrought.

ἐγένοντο (egenonto) − 13 Occurrences

You stated that the applicability of the sabbath extended beyond the law that contained it exclusively, which concludes that Moses lied when he stated no one else had the law exclusive to Israel and the documentation easily garnered showing the sabbath is contained in the law mediated by Moses.

this is circular logic, victor you are refusing to look at the evidence. your are reasoning from belief not fact.

Moses didn't lie.
Your premise is a complete fabrication that can't be reconciled with the testimony Moses provided.

it can't be reconciled with your false beleifs and conclusions. you are ignoring evidence victor. moses was taliking about the special status israel had not the law.

 

[VictorC]

circular logic, no i did not say that moses lied, victor your intrepration is the probelm

you know very well that all the 9 other command are listed before exodus. so either moses lied or your intrepretation is not correct. you are using circular logic

I'm going to repeat what I had posted earlier, as it is apparent the implications of your premise versus what Moses stated continues to elude you.

You stated that the applicability of the sabbath extended beyond the law that contained it exclusively, which concludes that Moses lied when he stated no one else had the law exclusive to Israel and the documentation is easily garnered showing the sabbath is contained in the law mediated by Moses.

Conclusion: the sabbath wasn't applicable to anyone outside the scope of the law.
Moses didn't lie.
Your premise is a complete fabrication that can't be reconciled with the testimony Moses provided.

 

[VictorC]

No reference to creation was made.

False

Strong's Greek Dictionary: 1096. ginomai

to come into being, to happen, to become​

Original Word: γίνομαι
Transliteration: ginomai
Phonetic Spelling: (ghin'-om-ahee)
Short Definition: happen

Word Origin
from a prim. root gen-
Definition
to come into being, to happen, to become
NASB Word Usage
accomplished (1), appeared (3), arise (1), arises (2), arose (6), arrived (3), became (53), become (83), becomes (8), becoming (2), been (12), been brought (1), been done (1), been made (2), been...came (1), began (1), behaved (1), being (2), come into being (1), being carried (1), being done (2), being made (2), born (5), breaking* (1), came (45), came into being (2), came to pass (2), come (16), comes (1), comes to pass (1), coming (1), dawn (1), decided* (1), developing (1), done (20), drawing (1), during (1), elapsed (1), existed* (1), falling (1), feeling (1), fell (6), finished (1), followed (1), formed (3), found (2), get (4), give (1), got (1), granted (1), grown* (1), had (1), happen (6), happened (46), happening (5), happens (3), has (3), join* (1), joined (3), made (15), occur (3), occurred (18), performed (4), prove (7), proved (6), proving (1), put (1), reached (2), realized (1), results (2), show (1), spent (1), split (1), spoken (1), starting (1), take place (16), taken (2), taken place (5), takes place (1), taking place (3), there arose (1), thundered* (1), took place (7), turned (1), turns (3), would (1).

NAS Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible with Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Dictionaries
Copyright © 1981, 1998 by The Lockman Foundation
All rights reserved Lockman.org​

be brought to pass, happen
A prolongation and middle voice form of a primary verb; to cause to be ("gen"-erate), i.e. (reflexively) to become (come into being), used with great latitude (literal, figurative, intensive, etc.) -- arise, be assembled, be(-come, -fall, -have self), be brought (to pass), (be) come (to pass), continue, be divided, draw, be ended, fall, be finished, follow, be found, be fulfilled, + God forbid, grow, happen, have, be kept, be made, be married, be ordained to be, partake, pass, be performed, be published, require, seem, be showed, X soon as it was, sound, be taken, be turned, use, wax, will, would, be wrought.

ἐγένοντο (egenonto) − 13 Occurrences

This supports what I mentioned in my first post:

I'm not sure what you hope to convey by pointing out the created nature of the sabbath, as it's a distinction that is generally taken for granted.

By "creation" I thought you were referring to the Genesis account, rather than the created nature of the sabbath. Your documentation supports my contention that the sabbath was a created entity, which almost all Christians and Jewish adherents take for granted.

this is circular logic, victor you are refusing to look at the evidence. your are reasoning from belief not fact.

No, it is a straightforward conclusion that comes naturally from what Moses testified in Deuteronomy 4. The only belief necessary is acceptance of the Biblical record as it appears, without the preclusions you use to ignore the testimony Moses provided. I repeated the point that comes from Moses in another post, in an effort to motivate you to return to the Biblical record and reconcile your premise with it. There is no link between the sabbath and the Genesis account, nor to anyone outside of Judaism during its tenure under the law mediated by Moses. The meaning of anthropos doesn't change who the law was given to, as the Jews were (and are) men and women just as the Gentiles were (and are). In fact, it is the statement "made for man" that Jesus used in Mark 2:27 that refutes a claim that the sabbath existed in the Genesis account, which records God's rest, and nothing observed by mankind.

it can't be reconciled with your false beleifs and conclusions. you are ignoring evidence victor. moses was taliking about the special status israel had not the law.

Moses was talking specifically about the law, and to whom it was given to exclusively. It isn't a false belief that Moses was accurate in his account, and I hope in time you're able to absorb what Moses wrote under divine inspiration and see the impact of his statement.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

I'm going to repeat what I had posted earlier, as it is apparent the implications of your premise versus what Moses stated continues to elude you.

You stated that the applicability of the sabbath extended beyond the law that contained it exclusively, which concludes that Moses lied when he stated no one else had the law exclusive to Israel and the documentation is easily garnered showing the sabbath is contained in the law mediated by Moses.

Conclusion: the sabbath wasn't applicable to anyone outside the scope of the law.
Moses didn't lie.
Your premise is a complete fabrication that can't be reconciled with the testimony Moses provided.

premise of victors objection

1.the Holy Seventh day existed 1 time in the garden and never again until given at sinia.
Conclusion by Victor: there was no sabbath from day 7 of creation until about 2600 years later, so sabbath is not valid and binding for christians.

that is why victor does not accept any evedience contrary to his belief. victor has constructed a belief that cannot be challanged because it is a circular argument. he believes it becuse it is true, it is true because he believes it. when you test his belief, it falls apart and he get hostel.



the problem with the victors arguments is in order to establish there was no sabbath after the 7th day of creation you must....

1. have a written record of every day after the 7th day of creation, We have no such record. the records we do have, biblical & historical, favors the observence of the sabbath not the absence of sabbath, in fact babylon observed a sabbath but not in the exact same manner of jews, prior to the 1446 bc when the stone tablets were given.

2. must argue that there was no law, prior to the giving of the tablets of stone. the problem is the genesis record tell us other wise. stealing,lying cheating, adultry,murder,idolarty, courtness all are mentioned. victor would have you believe that 9 of the commandments are there but all 10 are not.

3. must do away with the weekily cycle. because at creation the 7 day cycle is established. if a weekely cycle exists out side the garden, and prior to the exodus. then Victor has a problem. it proves that

a)the weekely cycle was ment to be repeated
b. that the 7 days of the weekly cycle were based on the creation week
c. that since sabbath was part of the creation week, it is also part of the weekly cycle.

Do we have mention of the week cycle after creation prior to exodus? YES, We see this in the flood story of Noah, was a 7 day cycle being followed there. Noah knew no other reference for the weekly cycle other then the creation week.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

This supports what I mentioned in my first post:

No it dosen't

By "creation" I thought you were referring to the Genesis account, rather than the created nature of the sabbath. Your documentation supports my contention that the sabbath was a created entity, which almost all Christians and Jewish adherents take for granted.

i have been arguing all along the creatated nature of the sabbath. the question is when was it created. when the first humans were created. and when was that.? at the beginning.

No, it is a straightforward conclusion that comes naturally from what Moses testified in Deuteronomy 4.

sorry victor i don't see it.

The only belief necessary is acceptance of the Biblical record as it appears, without the preclusions you use to ignore the testimony Moses provided. I repeated the point that comes from Moses in another post, in an effort to motivate you to return to the Biblical record and reconcile your premise with it.

There is no link between the sabbath and the Genesis account, nor to anyone outside of Judaism during its tenure under the law mediated by Moses

victor you are dilusioanal, moses quotes genesis directly, and since he worte exodus after Genesis was written we must conclude that the creation account was what Moses had in mind when he put in in the commandment, to say other wise is not dealing with reality.

. The meaning of anthropos doesn't change who the law was given to, as the Jews were (and are) men and women just as the Gentiles were (and are).

yes it dose. this is you just wiping away away evidence you don't like. Notice he did not say "sabbath was made for the Jews' as you would have us believe. victor Jesus him self says it was given to Humanity. Now victor are you going to accept the words of the Lord or stick to your errouns concluion. if you do victor then you are saying that God Him Self cannot say you. that is dangerous ground.


In fact, it is the statement "made for man" that Jesus used in Mark 2:27 that refutes a claim that the sabbath existed in the Genesis account, which records God's rest, and nothing observed by mankind.

i agree with you conclusion that sabbat is not the sign of the covenat and that Christian are not under obligation to observe it as the jews.

Moses was talking specifically about the law, and to whom it was given to exclusively. It isn't a false belief that Moses was accurate in his account, and I hope in time you're able to absorb what Moses wrote under divine inspiration and see the impact of his statement

.we are going to have to agree to disagree

 

[Cribstyl]

victor, i did read what you said and it was irrevalent as always. it is not on the topic.

why was my analysis wrong.
why was it not a reference to creation

You must be joking. What Victor said was valid and relevant response to your OP.

You said.....
......the text and the ramifications both indicate that the sabbath was not mearly Jewish, but was ment for humanity, and i was for his benifit. it would later signify the sign of the covenat between God and the Jews.

Biblos explained.. egeneto as "came into being"


you've expanded the subject in the verse by your commentary from "why" sabbath comming into being" (for man) to when you think sabbath came into being. (at creation) ........Vic claimed that you needed to correct that definition before going forward in error.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

You must be joking. What Victor said was valid and relevant response to your OP.

You said.....
......the text and the ramifications both indicate that the sabbath was not mearly Jewish, but was ment for humanity, and i was for his benifit. it would later signify the sign of the covenat between God and the Jews.

Biblos explained.. egeneto as "came into being"


you've expanded the subject in the verse by your commentary from "why" sabbath comming into being" (for man) to when you think sabbath came into being. (at creation) ........Vic claimed that you needed to correct that definition before going forward in error.

i don't believe i was in error, you have not proven i was, you simply stated it as fact and left it at that.

As far as expanding on the definition, i did not. the definition of egeneto is to bring into being, the question then become when? when linked with the word, for humanity. it tells us when it was brought in to being. If it was mearly for the Jews as you assert, Christ would have stated so, but he did not., so victor cannot claim that is was only for the Jews or else he would have said so.