Sabbath was made for man

VictorC · Sep 3, 2014

JohnRabbit said:
Hi VictorC!

haven't heard from you in a while.

with that said, thanks for putting your "two cents" in and distorting what I said.

My post shows that I quoted you directly, and responded to your exact words. If you can't write what represents your intent, it is your responsibility to correct your own words.

JohnRabbit said:
like Cribstyl, you need to pay attention and look at what I addressed!

I talked about the sign and showed from what God said it is!

You didn't respond to what Moses recorded as God's own statement regarding the limited jurisdiction of the Sabbath as a covenant made with the children of Israel.
It is Sabbatarians who want to focus on the Sabbath as a 'memorial' of God's rest in the creation account. Many of us have a different perspective, viewing the Sabbath as a periodic shadow leading us toward God's rest, "since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it".

JohnRabbit said:
and perhaps you can tell me when the Sabbath was made, enlighten me!

You have known for more than four years that the Sabbath shares its origin with the manna experience documented in Exodus 16, about one month before the covenant from Mount Sinai was declared orally to God's vassal Israel.

The Genesis account doesn't record a rest observed by any human; the seventh day is in absolute terms rather than a repetitive cycle to describe God's rest.
Exodus 20:11 clearly delineates the seventh day apart from the sabbath, using the same sentence structure found in Deuteronomy 5:15 that lists a single event in the past as the impetus to ordain the periodic sabbath.
Hebrews 4 calls the seventh day of creation God's "My rest" that remained to be attained by a people who were already observing the sabbath, and Hebrews 4:4 quotes directly from Genesis 2:2 to document God's rest those who had the sabbath had not attained.
Jesus distinguishes the sabbath apart from God's rest recorded in the Genesis account when He said it was "made for man" in Mark 2:27.
Moses testifies that the ten commandments were unknown to the generation previous to his own in Deuteronomy 5:2-3, and lists the sabbath as a memorial of deliverance from Egyptian bondage in Deuteronomy 5:15.
Nehemiah 9:13-14 attributes the origin of the sabbath with Moses.

Gibs · Sep 3, 2014

To VictorC, and all who would abrogate the law and so the Sabbath,

Mt 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mt 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

It would be I would think a very good idea to hear Him!

VictorC · Sep 3, 2014

Gibs said:
To VictorC, and all who would abrogate the law and so the Sabbath,

Mt 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mt 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

It would be I would think a very good idea to hear Him!

Of course your post borders on a personal attack, by claiming that an individual (me) has abrogated the old covenant Law and the Sabbath contained therein, on the heels of an individual (me) pointing out to you that this is what you have done by following an unholy Sabbath no one gave to us in the first place.

Gibs · Sep 3, 2014

VictorC said:
Of course your post borders on a personal attack, by claiming that an individual (me) has abrogated the old covenant Law and the Sabbath contained therein, on the heels of an individual (me) pointing out to you that this is what you have done by following an unholy Sabbath no one gave to us in the first place.

No VictorC I have no personal attack on you but on the false teachings you do.

It would be I would think a very good idea to hear Him if not me as I am nobody!

Mt 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mt 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus just told you above that the law will never pass until all is fulfilled and here you and others are teaching against Him.

Now it would be wise don't you think not to be teaching against Him? Did you not notice His Words?

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:

That is Heaven speaking now and not later when the Saints are in Heaven!

VictorC · Sep 3, 2014

Gibs said:
No VictorC I have no personal attack on you but on the false teachings you do.

It would be I would think a very good idea to hear Him if not me as I am nobody!

Mt 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mt 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus just told you above that the law will never pass until all is fulfilled and here you and others are teaching against Him.

Now it would be wise don't you think not to be teaching against Him? Did you not notice His Words?

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:

That is Heaven speaking now and not later when the Saints are in Heaven!

You haven't identified anything false that I have posted. You haven't even responded to my post. When you divert attention to remind us of the tenor the old covenant demanded for justification, which Jesus reminds us of in several passages, it is taken as just that - a diversion. You haven't produced your commandment for an unholy sabbath.

Cribstyl · Sep 3, 2014

JohnRabbit said:
the facts of scripture that I pointed out was to expose the errant statement that you made, which was that the Sabbath was a sign of God's rest!

If sabbath is rest, or resting on the seventh day, and considering the fact that God rested on the seventh day.... Saying that "Sabbath is a sign of God's rest," is fact and not error.

so, to whom God made the Sabbath was not even the issue that I was addressing!

Why did you post a scripture that shoot holes in your doctrine?

I said that the Sabbath was a sign that God is God - Creator, and it was not what you said - a sign of God's rest!
you need to pay attention to what you are posting!

Like it or not, keeping the Sabbath signifies that God rested on the seventh day.

Exodus 31:16-17(NKJV)
16Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.
17It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.’”

and no creation Sabbath?

so when was the Sabbath made? (please don't show your ignorance and say at Sinai! )

I reject your flaming and I will not respond unless mutual respect is presented.

Gibs · Sep 3, 2014

VictorC said:
You haven't identified anything false that I have posted. You haven't even responded to my post. When you divert attention to remind us of the tenor the old covenant demanded for justification, which Jesus reminds us of in several passages, it is taken as just that - a diversion. You haven't produced your commandment for an unholy sabbath.

Jesus did, He does the identification. It would be wise to accept it. Jesus being the new covenant made it clear the law is immutable. Twist and spin all any want and it will stand with God eternally as it is as eternal as He is.

The law of love is only kept by love as only love can fulfill the law. When we truly have love the law is ours too and the service of love of the heart fulfills it.

In those they are not under the law, only those who love not the law are the ones under it.

VictorC · Sep 3, 2014

Gibs said:
Jesus did, He does the identification. It would be wise to accept it. Jesus being the new covenant made it clear the law is immutable. Twist and spin all any want and it will stand with God eternally as it is as eternal as He is.

The law of love is only kept by love as only love can fulfill the law. When we truly have love the law is ours too and the service of love of the heart fulfills it.

You wasted another post showing nothing for your contention of an error present in my post.

Gibs said:
In those they are not under the law, only those who love not the law are the ones under it.

And, this latest installation from you shows that you don't understand the meaning of the phrase "under the law". It denotes a positional authority of the Law having a superior relationship over the person it retains. It commonly expresses jurisdiction, something you don't acknowledge when confronted with Jesus stating "the sons are free" from a given Law the King issues to those who aren't His children (you have seen Matthew 17:24-26 before).

listed · Sep 3, 2014

JohnRabbit said:
the facts of scripture that I pointed out was to expose the errant statement that you made, which was that the Sabbath was a sign of God's rest!

so, to whom God made the Sabbath was not even the issue that I was addressing!

I said that the Sabbath was a sign that God is God - Creator, and it was not what you said - a sign of God's rest!

you need to pay attention to what you are posting!

and no creation Sabbath?

so when was the Sabbath made? (please don't show your ignorance and say at Sinai! )

How nice of you to tell others what not to say.

Gibs · Sep 3, 2014

VictorC said:
You wasted another post showing nothing for your contention of an error present in my post.

And, this latest installation from you shows that you don't understand the meaning of the phrase "under the law". It denotes a positional authority of the Law having a superior relationship over the person it retains. It commonly expresses jurisdiction, something you don't acknowledge when confronted with Jesus stating "the sons are free" from a given Law the King issues to those who aren't His children (you have seen Matthew 17:24-26 before).

The law of love is in my heart and I am a totally freeman in Jesus Christ as there is nothing outside of His Will that I have any desire to do. Now since the law is in my heart and my law also I am no longer under it.

Now you can take that as you please, and run with it.

I can see you don't and never will see with me and so there is no sense in us making any further troll in this thread. I don't care to troll.

VictorC · Sep 3, 2014

Gibs said:
The law of love is in my heart and I am a totally freeman in Jesus Christ as there is nothing outside of His Will that I have any desire to do. Now since the law is in my heart and my law also I am no longer under it.

Now you can take that as you please, and run with it.

I can see you don't and never will see with me and so there is no sense in us making any further troll in this thread. I don't care to troll.

You're merely claiming the old covenant Law changed location instead of jurisdiction - and that you aren't under it concurrent with being under it, and still subject to the tenor of the old covenant.

That's your argument in a nutshell, and attempting to morph the English language into abject nonsense doesn't help your cause. The meaning of this common phrase denoting jurisdiction was explained to you, and it is so clear you can't offer any defense for rejecting it.

God didn't tell Jeremiah he was moving the location of the first covenant from Mount Sinai, a fact not lost on the inspired author of the epistle to the Hebrews when he picked up this distinction and called the first covenant "obsolete" (Hebrews 8:13).
Not moved.

A reminder of your previous claim is in order:

Gibs said:
I must tell you and all, the new covenant was not to change the immutable law in no way.

You have never reconciled your opinions with Holy Writ, and this was pointed out to you long ago:

VictorC said:
I'm not among those who claim that the Mosaic covenant Law changed in essence, seeing that Hebrews 7:12 suggests a change in location (or, jurisdiction) as the Greek metatithemi is used to declare a 'change' in the Law according to Hebrews 7:12, consistent with the context. See the Blue Letter Bible for how this same term is used in other passages (Jude 1:4 is an eye-opening example).

Your fallacy of confusing the Creator with His temporal creation remains in variance with Scripture declaring how the first covenant changed in jurisdiction, and not in content.

The Law ordained in the first covenant demanded change (Hebrews 7:12)

It was annulled (v.7:18)

It was charged with a fault that called for a new covenant (v.8:7)

It was rendered obsolete and ready to vanish away (v.8:13)

Jesus redeemed our transgressions under the first covenant and is now the Mediator of the new covenant (v.9:15)

He took the first covenant away by His own Hand, in order to establish that new covenant (v.10:9)

The Bible contains many similar points you never reconciled your opinions with.

Gibs · Sep 3, 2014

VictorC, I will not troll no longer, no more response from me to you.

Cribstyl · Sep 4, 2014

Gibs said:
To VictorC, and all who would abrogate the law and so the Sabbath,

Mt 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mt 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

It would be I would think a very good idea to hear Him!

This is one of Sabbatarians favorite quotes to malign. To conceal gross error they reduce the law to 10 commandments rather than the over 600 commandments in the law.
They fail to understand that all the law was fulfilled when Christ died for sins of all mankind. They ignore clear doctrine that Christian are not under the law. They teach that only the ceremonial law was done away with.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Rom 7:6[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.[/FONT]

JohnRabbit · Sep 4, 2014

Cribstyl said:
This is one of Sabbatarians favorite quotes to malign. To conceal gross error they reduce the law to 10 commandments rather than the over 600 commandments in the law.
They fail to understand that all the law was fulfilled when Christ died for sins of all mankind. They ignore clear doctrine that Christian are not under the law. They teach that only the ceremonial law was done away with.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Rom 7:6[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.[/FONT]

you quote the verse, however, may i ask the "oldness of the letter" of what?

Cribstyl · Sep 4, 2014

JohnRabbit said:
you quote the verse, however, may i ask the "oldness of the letter" of what?

Rom 7:6
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

You just accused me in another thread of thinking my understanding is the only truth. Fact is, you often ignore context to focus on your agenda to promote the law.

According to the verse, we must also consider what "we're delivered from," and "dead to", and no longer held by"... This helps us to know that the oldness of the letter is talking about the law written on stone.
Serving God in newness of the spirit is to put on love, because love fulfills the law.

Rom 13:8
Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Rom 13:10
Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Gal 5:14
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Jas 2:8
If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

The answer to your question is THE LAW

Angelquill · Sep 4, 2014

Cribstyl said:
This is one of Sabbatarians favorite quotes to malign. To conceal gross error they reduce the law to 10 commandments rather than the over 600 commandments in the law.
They fail to understand that all the law was fulfilled when Christ died for sins of all mankind. They ignore clear doctrine that Christian are not under the law. They teach that only the ceremonial law was done away with.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Rom 7:6[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.[/FONT]

There's that word. "Sabbatarians".
No one seems to have any real objection to any of the other 9 of the 10 commandments.
It's just that one that seems to stick in everyone's craw.

You do understand that the 4th commandment never was about an official, designated day of worship, I hope? What it is about is taking a day of rest...and not only for yourself, but for those around you.
I suspect that what the whole thing comes down to is really $$$$.
My sister in law, for instance, used to have a booth at the flea market. And Saturday...well, that's a big money day.
And why?
Well, because it is the traditional "day off"...and people like to shop on their day off...

Cribstyl · Sep 4, 2014

Angelquill said:
There's that word. "Sabbatarians".
No one seems to have any real objection to any of the other 9 of the 10 commandments.
It's just that one that seems to stick in everyone's craw.

You do understand that the 4th commandment never was about an official, designated day of worship, I hope? What it is about is taking a day of rest...and not only for yourself, but for those around you.
I suspect that what the whole thing comes down to is really $$$$.
My sister in law, for instance, used to have a booth at the flea market. And Saturday...well, that's a big money day.
And why?
Well, because it is the traditional "day off"...and people like to shop on their day off...

The rich young ruler had no problems with the law. He was blinded from the call to follow Jesus. It's all about being followers of Christ. The just shall live by faith... the law is not of faith.

Evidence that sabbath is ceromonial and not a moral commandment is a no-brainer except for SDA.
"Shabbat is the most important ritual observance in Judaism. It is the only ritual observance instituted in the Ten Commandments." Judaism 101: Shabbat

BobRyan · Sep 4, 2014

Cribstyl said:
It can only make sense that when God first gave the Sabbath it was to men. That fact should not be confused with God's rest from creating all things. God's rest was not for man, it was clearly because God was finished and therefore ended all His work.

You quote heavily "from you" in that statement instead of from the actual Sabbath Commandment of Ex 20:8-11.

Quoting "you" and ignoring the actual Sabbath commandment might be "necessary" when going out on that limb - but not convincing.

8 “Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day;therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.

3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Incredibly obvious to all.

Only a false prophet would contradict God, and say that Sabbath was given for all men at creation.

The majority of even pro-sunday scholarship argues for the Sabbath given to mankind in Eden and still applies to all mankind today. As we already saw. #1

And of course God says the Sabbath was "Made for mankind" Mark 2:27.

Directly contradicting the Bible is the work of a false prophet - directly affirming the word of God - is the work of a true prophet.

Gibs · Sep 4, 2014

All can put all the spins and twists on it you want to be able to continue in sin and feel good the law has been annulled. Well sleep away in peace now but in the judgment you will have wished you would known that sin is the transgression of the law and here you kept at it merrily!

Many read Paul's writings to make it as they have driven in their stakes of belief. It is clear Paul knew sin had to be overcome in this life!

Ro 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Ro 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
Ro 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
Ro 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

The law will ever remain to point out the sins we commit.

Take heed!

Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Bits from Romans 6:

Ro 6:1 ¶ What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Ro 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Ro 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Ro 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Ro 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Ro 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Case closed, The law Remains!

from scratch · Sep 4, 2014

JohnRabbit said:
you quote the verse, however, may i ask the "oldness of the letter" of what?

The whole chapter is about the law and you ask what letter.

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