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I'm sorry but your argument defies logic. There is NO reason for two people in that scripture and two sets of commandments if there was only 1 person and one set of commandments there is no reason to write it the way it is.That is what we are talking about, the commandments and there is 10 of them and they are the law of love you keep speaking of and nothing else.
What puzzle's me is why you find the 10 are grievous to you.
His and His Father's commandments are one and the same. You forget at times Jesus spoke as a man and at times as God. As a man that could die He obeyed the Father's commandments for sure as we must, there is not two separate sets one for Jesus only and one for us who were not his Son!
I'm still awaiting a refutation of my argument. You either have to say God is schizophrenic or mentally ill to need to talk to himself or you torture the trinity or totally deny it in order to make Jesus into the Father when they are two separate persons and that verse has them as two not oneIt is your see of this that defies logic. Jesus did not give us another. what He gave us is what is in Heaven in the Temple there,
Re 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
The ark of His Testament is where the divine law is kept, there is not another!
Do you want to get out from under the fourth commandment? Is it the one grievous to you?
Man has made a breach in the law,
Isa 58:12 And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.
Isa 58:13 ¶ If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
Isa 58:14Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
The Sabbath is verily a delight for me to be with my God in a special way!
I'm sorry but non trinitarians are not allowed to post here at all. If you read the top it says (orthodox Christians only) and you aren't one.Well you see I am not of any denomination and I am not a Trinitarian and on the thread I read of the non denominational forum I'm not allowed to discuss non trinity views.
I see the Sabbath as optional at best, not valid but as a personal ceremony that Christianity has no real need for nor is it ever seen in the New Testament as important to believers instead we see the authors of the New Testament either silent or purposely avoiding mention of it in a context of complying with it.I don't see that as fair but have to abide by the forum rules.
I am a member of His Church, that only He alone can build His Church, and also I see the Sabbath is as valid as ever and will be in Heaven on the Seventh solar day as in in sync with Heaven now on this earth.
Mt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
What puzzles me is why you disagree with Moses, the prophets and the Gospels.That is what we are talking about, the commandments and there is 10 of them and they are the law of love you keep speaking of and nothing else.
What puzzle's me is why you find the 10 are grievous to you.
His and His Father's commandments are one and the same. You forget at times Jesus spoke as a man and at times as God. As a man that could die He obeyed the Father's commandments for sure as we must, there is not two separate sets one for Jesus only and one for us who were not his Son!
Some of us have been around a while.Is there anyone out there that can understand my question?? I am not here discussing the Sabbath----historically, when the first settlers came here, and into much later, the 4th was considered Sunday and being kept as the Sabbath, so again, I am saying that I am not debating the 7th versus the 1st day--I am talking about the concept of keeping the 10 commandments-- the public considered the were enforcing the 10 y keeping Sunday as The Sabbath, so as far as they were concerned, they were keeping the 10--the question is when, in history, did everyone decide the 10 were no longer needed??? If this is too far off topic--should I open a separate thread to be better understood???
Is Luke 24:44 in your Bible?Sophrosyne,
How can we go along with that when Jesus tells us this plain and straight out!
Mt 5:17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
And note! He fulfilled it by keeping it himself as our example!
Mt 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mt 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
You mean we'll have to put up with puffed vain Pharisees in heaven, too?Sophrosyne,
You surely will regard Jesus Christ's own statement I hope,
Mt 5:17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mt 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mt 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Do you want to be called the least?
1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
1Jo 4:5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
1Jo 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
Sophrosyne,
Yes those writers are right and I do also from love as it is the fulfilling of the law and true obedience to all He asks as we love to please Him, it is our greatest desire.
Jesus is the Author of the law and it will never be abrogated, will always be as he is eternal. The death of Christ on the cross or nothing will abrogate it. He is love and those 10 are the transcript of that love to us to practice and be of.
His law of love is spelled out in what we know as the 10 commandments and the first four are fulfilled if and when we love Him above all and the last 6 when and if we love our fellow man as ourselves.
It is my delight to do so!
1Jo 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
Great question!How can Jesus be the author of the (Mosaic) Law when He claims it is his Father's commandments he keeps while we are to keep Jesus' commandments which equates not his Fathers?
NO.... ALL are fulfilled by loving your neighbor. The Bible authors didn't say what you are saying at all, you are adding to their words which isn't wise in fact there is a warning to those who add to the Bible.
I think they have Jesus saying He keeps His own commandments. Must be the Clear Word Bible. I gotta get one o' them.None of this logically addresses this verse:
John 15:10
If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Fathers commandments and abide in His love.
We have 2 separate persons operating here with 2 separate sets of commandments. I see no logical reason why we would have only one person here instead. If it were only Jesus then it would have been simply written like this instead:
If you keep my commandments you will abide in my love... and the rest of the verse is unneeded. The fact it is INCLUDED puts your theological position as untenable.
Introduction to the Seventh Day Adventist Clear Word Bible | Christian Apologetics and Research MinistryI think they have Jesus saying He keeps His own commandments. Must be the Clear Word Bible. I gotta get one o' them.
The page presents some very interesting information in the charts under the main article.
I disagree in that most of the fringe Christian groups like the Mormons and JWs and etc all base their doctrine on errors in the KJV that more modern translations don't offer to them.Ya better stick to the best Bible, the KJV!
yes and the links below lead to other articles and charts etc.The page presents some very interesting information in the charts under the main article.
You appeal to religious sages that don't accept Jesus as Messiah. Therefore I must reject them.There is a rabbinic parallel to the saying of Jesus about the Sabbath.
"The Sabbath is given into your hands, it is not you who are given into the hands of the Sabbath." B. Yoma 84b, 85b
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