Sabbath question from seeker

[ricker]

Just curious why you chose to include the 4th Commandment Law with the ceremonial laws... I didn't see any other of the the ten... why not? Do you consider the law given by Moses the same as the Law written in stone by God?

First of all God explained that the Sabbath was a sign between Him and Israel before the tablets were even given to Israel. (Exodus 31). How could a law supposedly given to all mankind at creation now be a sign and covenant between a certain nation and God?

Can any moral law be given as a sign? Could the command to honor our parents be given as a sign between God and a certain nation? Could the commandment to not take God's name in vain be given as a sign? The weekly Sabbath is a ceremony, not a moral law.

The weekly Sabbath is listed in Lev. 23 right along with all the other ceremonial feasts and observations given to Israel that most Christians feel ended at the cross.

All law given to Israel was given through God.

 

[k4c]

ricker;First of all God explained that the Sabbath was a sign between Him and Israel before the tablets were even given to Israel. (Exodus 31). How could a law supposedly given to all mankind at creation now be a sign and covenant between a certain nation and God?

God explained the Sabbath was a sign? What is the Sabbath and where did it come from?

Can any moral law be given as a sign? Could the command to honor our parents be given as a sign between God and a certain nation? Could the commandment to not take God's name in vain be given as a sign? The weekly Sabbath is a ceremony, not a moral law.

Does this sound like a ceremonial law?

Exodus 31:15 Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

The weekly Sabbath is listed in Lev. 23 right along with all the other ceremonial feasts and observations given to Israel that most Christians feel ended at the cross.

Yeah so? The Sabbath is identified in Leviticus with all the other special days unto the Lord and notice how the Sabbath day is given it's own place in the Leviticus list. The Sabbath is also given its own place in God's Law, as well as, creation itself. Jesus Himself says He is Lord of the seventh day Sabbath. This is not so with any of the other days.

Leviticus 23
New International Version

1The Lord said to Moses, 2“Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘These are my appointed feasts, the appointed feasts of the Lord, which you are to proclaim as sacred assemblies.

The Sabbath
3“‘There are six days when you may work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, a day of sacred assembly. You are not to do any work; wherever you live, it is a Sabbath to the Lord.

The Passover and Unleavened Bread
4“‘These are the Lord’s appointed feasts, the sacred assemblies you are to proclaim at their appointed times: 5The Lord’s Passover begins at twilight on the fourteenth day of the first month. 6On the fifteenth day of that month the Lord’s Feast of Unleavened Bread begins; for seven days you must eat bread made without yeast. 7On the first day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work. 8For seven days present an offering made to the Lord by fire. And on the seventh day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work.’”

Firstfruits
9The Lord said to Moses, 10“Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘When you enter the land I am going to give you and you reap its harvest, bring to the priest a sheaf of the first grain you harvest. 11He is to wave the sheaf before the Lord so it will be accepted on your behalf; the priest is to wave it on the day after the Sabbath. 12On the day you wave the sheaf, you must sacrifice as a burnt offering to the Lord a lamb a year old without defect, 13together with its grain offering of two-tenths of an ephaha of fine flour mixed with oil—an offering made to the Lord by fire, a pleasing aroma—and its drink offering of a quarter of a hinb of wine. 14You must not eat any bread, or roasted or new grain, until the very day you bring this offering to your God. This is to be a lasting ordinance for the generations to come, wherever you live.

Feast of Weeks
15“‘From the day after the Sabbath, the day you brought the sheaf of the wave offering, count off seven full weeks. 16Count off fifty days up to the day after the seventh Sabbath, and then present an offering of new grain to the Lord. 17From wherever you live, bring two loaves made of two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour, baked with yeast, as a wave offering of firstfruits to the Lord. 18Present with this bread seven male lambs, each a year old and without defect, one young bull and two rams. They will be a burnt offering to the Lord, together with their grain offerings and drink offerings—an offering made by fire, an aroma pleasing to the Lord. 19Then sacrifice one male goat for a sin offering and two lambs, each a year old, for a fellowship offering.c20The priest is to wave the two lambs before the Lord as a wave offering, together with the bread of the firstfruits. They are a sacred offering to the Lord for the priest. 21On that same day you are to proclaim a sacred assembly and do no regular work. This is to be a lasting ordinance for the generations to come, wherever you live.
22“‘When you reap the harvest of your land, do not reap to the very edges of your field or gather the gleanings of your harvest. Leave them for the poor and the alien. I am the Lord your God.’”

Feast of Trumpets
23The Lord said to Moses, 24“Say to the Israelites: ‘On the first day of the seventh month you are to have a day of rest, a sacred assembly commemorated with trumpet blasts. 25Do no regular work, but present an offering made to the Lord by fire.’”

Day of Atonement
26The Lord said to Moses, 27“The tenth day of this seventh month is the Day of Atonement. Hold a sacred assembly and deny yourselves,d and present an offering made to the Lord by fire. 28Do no work on that day, because it is the Day of Atonement, when atonement is made for you before the Lord your God. 29Anyone who does not deny himself on that day must be cut off from his people. 30I will destroy from among his people anyone who does any work on that day. 31You shall do no work at all. This is to be a lasting ordinance for the generations to come, wherever you live. 32It is a sabbath of rest for you, and you must deny yourselves. From the evening of the ninth day of the month until the following evening you are to observe your sabbath.”

Feast of Tabernacles
33The Lord said to Moses, 34“Say to the Israelites: ‘On the fifteenth day of the seventh month the Lord’s Feast of Tabernacles begins, and it lasts for seven days. 35The first day is a sacred assembly; do no regular work. 36For seven days present offerings made to the Lord by fire, and on the eighth day hold a sacred assembly and present an offering made to the Lord by fire. It is the closing assembly; do no regular work.
37(“‘These are the Lord’s appointed feasts, which you are to proclaim as sacred assemblies for bringing offerings made to the Lord by fire—the burnt offerings and grain offerings, sacrifices and drink offerings required for each day.
39“‘So beginning with the fifteenth day of the seventh month, after you have gathered the crops of the land, celebrate the festival to the Lord for seven days; the first day is a day of rest, and the eighth day also is a day of rest. 44So Moses announced to the Israelites the appointed feasts of the Lord.

I think God makes a clear distinction between the ceremonial days, which were instituted as a result of sin, and the seventh day Sabbath of creation, which was instituted before sin.

The fact that God could use the seventh day Sabbath as a perpetual sign means it's going to have to be around for a while.

Webster's Definition of PERPETUAL 1a : continuing forever : everlasting (1) : valid for all time <a perpetual right> (2) : holding (as an office) for life or for an unlimited time.

All law given to Israel was given through God.

The first time the name, Israel, is used it was given to Jacob as a metaphor for all of God's chosen people.

Genesis 35:10-12 And God said to him, "Your name is Jacob; your name shall not be called Jacob anymore, but Israel shall be your name.'' So He called his name Israel. Also God said to him: "I am God Almighty. Be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall proceed from you, and kings shall come from your body. "The land which I gave Abraham and Isaac I give to you; and to your descendants after you I give this land.'' .

The things God gave to Israel, as a people, was to be a light to the whole world, and yes, even to the Gentiles to the ends of the earth...

Isaiah 49:6 Indeed He says, 'It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved ones of Israel; I will also give You as a light to the Gentiles, that You should be My salvation to the ends of the earth.'

Even to this very day the new covenant promise is made with the house of Israel and we, as Gentiles, need to be grafted in, this includes the Sabbath for the Gentiles.

Isaiah 56:6-7 As for the Gentiles, the outsiders who join the people of the Lord and serve him and love his name, and are his servants and don't desecrate the Sabbath, and have accepted his covenant and promises,I will bring them also to my holy mountain of Jerusalem, and make them full of joy within my House of Prayer. I will accept their sacrifices and offerings, for my Temple shall be called "A House of Prayer for All People''!

Isaiah 55:5-6 Behold, you shall call nations that you know not, and nations that knew you not shall run to you, because of the Lord your God, and of the Holy One of Israel, for he has glorified you. Seek the Lord while you can find him. Call upon him now while he is near.

So let's not be too short sighted as to think God was only touching a hand full of people for their own good.

 

[ricker]

God explained the Sabbath was a sign? What is the Sabbath and where did it come from?



Does this sound like a ceremonial law?

Exodus 31:15 Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.



Yeah so? The Sabbath is identified in Leviticus with all the other special days unto the Lord and notice how the Sabbath day is given it's own place in the Leviticus list. The Sabbath is also given its own place in God's Law, as well as, creation itself. Jesus Himself says He is Lord of the seventh day Sabbath. This is not so with any of the other days.

Leviticus 23
New International Version

1The Lord said to Moses, 2&#8220;Speak to the Israelites and say to them: &#8216;These are my appointed feasts, the appointed feasts of the Lord, which you are to proclaim as sacred assemblies.

The Sabbath
3&#8220;&#8216;There are six days when you may work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, a day of sacred assembly. You are not to do any work; wherever you live, it is a Sabbath to the Lord.

The Passover and Unleavened Bread
4&#8220;&#8216;These are the Lord&#8217;s appointed feasts, the sacred assemblies you are to proclaim at their appointed times: 5The Lord&#8217;s Passover begins at twilight on the fourteenth day of the first month. 6On the fifteenth day of that month the Lord&#8217;s Feast of Unleavened Bread begins; for seven days you must eat bread made without yeast. 7On the first day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work. 8For seven days present an offering made to the Lord by fire. And on the seventh day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work.&#8217;&#8221;

Firstfruits
9The Lord said to Moses, 10&#8220;Speak to the Israelites and say to them: &#8216;When you enter the land I am going to give you and you reap its harvest, bring to the priest a sheaf of the first grain you harvest. 11He is to wave the sheaf before the Lord so it will be accepted on your behalf; the priest is to wave it on the day after the Sabbath. 12On the day you wave the sheaf, you must sacrifice as a burnt offering to the Lord a lamb a year old without defect, 13together with its grain offering of two-tenths of an ephaha of fine flour mixed with oil&#8212;an offering made to the Lord by fire, a pleasing aroma&#8212;and its drink offering of a quarter of a hinb of wine. 14You must not eat any bread, or roasted or new grain, until the very day you bring this offering to your God. This is to be a lasting ordinance for the generations to come, wherever you live.

Feast of Weeks
15&#8220;&#8216;From the day after the Sabbath, the day you brought the sheaf of the wave offering, count off seven full weeks. 16Count off fifty days up to the day after the seventh Sabbath, and then present an offering of new grain to the Lord. 17From wherever you live, bring two loaves made of two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour, baked with yeast, as a wave offering of firstfruits to the Lord. 18Present with this bread seven male lambs, each a year old and without defect, one young bull and two rams. They will be a burnt offering to the Lord, together with their grain offerings and drink offerings&#8212;an offering made by fire, an aroma pleasing to the Lord. 19Then sacrifice one male goat for a sin offering and two lambs, each a year old, for a fellowship offering.c20The priest is to wave the two lambs before the Lord as a wave offering, together with the bread of the firstfruits. They are a sacred offering to the Lord for the priest. 21On that same day you are to proclaim a sacred assembly and do no regular work. This is to be a lasting ordinance for the generations to come, wherever you live.
22&#8220;&#8216;When you reap the harvest of your land, do not reap to the very edges of your field or gather the gleanings of your harvest. Leave them for the poor and the alien. I am the Lord your God.&#8217;&#8221;

Feast of Trumpets
23The Lord said to Moses, 24&#8220;Say to the Israelites: &#8216;On the first day of the seventh month you are to have a day of rest, a sacred assembly commemorated with trumpet blasts. 25Do no regular work, but present an offering made to the Lord by fire.&#8217;&#8221;

Day of Atonement
26The Lord said to Moses, 27&#8220;The tenth day of this seventh month is the Day of Atonement. Hold a sacred assembly and deny yourselves,d and present an offering made to the Lord by fire. 28Do no work on that day, because it is the Day of Atonement, when atonement is made for you before the Lord your God. 29Anyone who does not deny himself on that day must be cut off from his people. 30I will destroy from among his people anyone who does any work on that day. 31You shall do no work at all. This is to be a lasting ordinance for the generations to come, wherever you live. 32It is a sabbath of rest for you, and you must deny yourselves. From the evening of the ninth day of the month until the following evening you are to observe your sabbath.&#8221;

Feast of Tabernacles
33The Lord said to Moses, 34&#8220;Say to the Israelites: &#8216;On the fifteenth day of the seventh month the Lord&#8217;s Feast of Tabernacles begins, and it lasts for seven days. 35The first day is a sacred assembly; do no regular work. 36For seven days present offerings made to the Lord by fire, and on the eighth day hold a sacred assembly and present an offering made to the Lord by fire. It is the closing assembly; do no regular work.
37(&#8220;&#8216;These are the Lord&#8217;s appointed feasts, which you are to proclaim as sacred assemblies for bringing offerings made to the Lord by fire&#8212;the burnt offerings and grain offerings, sacrifices and drink offerings required for each day.
39&#8220;&#8216;So beginning with the fifteenth day of the seventh month, after you have gathered the crops of the land, celebrate the festival to the Lord for seven days; the first day is a day of rest, and the eighth day also is a day of rest. 44So Moses announced to the Israelites the appointed feasts of the Lord.

I think God makes a clear distinction between the ceremonial days, which were instituted as a result of sin, and the seventh day Sabbath of creation, which was instituted before sin.

The fact that God could use the seventh day Sabbath as a perpetual sign means it's going to have to be around for a while.

Webster's Definition of PERPETUAL 1a : continuing forever : everlasting (1) : valid for all time <a perpetual right> (2) : holding (as an office) for life or for an unlimited time.



The first time the name, Israel, is used it was given to Jacob as a metaphor for all of God's chosen people.

Genesis 35:10-12 And God said to him, "Your name is Jacob; your name shall not be called Jacob anymore, but Israel shall be your name.'' So He called his name Israel. Also God said to him: "I am God Almighty. Be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall proceed from you, and kings shall come from your body. "The land which I gave Abraham and Isaac I give to you; and to your descendants after you I give this land.'' .

The things God gave to Israel, as a people, was to be a light to the whole world, and yes, even to the Gentiles to the ends of the earth...

Isaiah 49:6 Indeed He says, 'It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved ones of Israel; I will also give You as a light to the Gentiles, that You should be My salvation to the ends of the earth.'

Even to this very day the new covenant promise is made with the house of Israel and we, as Gentiles, need to be grafted in, this includes the Sabbath for the Gentiles.

Isaiah 56:6-7 As for the Gentiles, the outsiders who join the people of the Lord and serve him and love his name, and are his servants and don't desecrate the Sabbath, and have accepted his covenant and promises,I will bring them also to my holy mountain of Jerusalem, and make them full of joy within my House of Prayer. I will accept their sacrifices and offerings, for my Temple shall be called "A House of Prayer for All People''!

Isaiah 55:5-6 Behold, you shall call nations that you know not, and nations that knew you not shall run to you, because of the Lord your God, and of the Holy One of Israel, for he has glorified you. Seek the Lord while you can find him. Call upon him now while he is near.

So let's not be too short sighted as to think God was only touching a hand full of people for their own good.

I may address this sooner or later, but my post was an answer to a question posed by ECR and I would like to hear his thoughts.

 

[ricker]

Sorry, duplicate post.

 

[Deut 5:29]

God's Sabbath is a gaetway commandment that can lead us into the understanding of many other things if observed with a right attitude.
As far as it being a sign it is a sign that you are willing to trust and obey God.
How far you take that is up to you.
The sad thing is that most people stop and don't go any further once they begin to keep the seventh day Sabbath.
Therefore they don't wind up much better off than those who don't observe it.

 

[stinsonmarri]

Exodus

20.8:Remember that thou keep holy the sabbath day.


I will keep this short but I would like to know how you personally keep Sabbath, what you regard as Holy and what you would not find to be appropriate. I won't get in to the debate regarding the Saturday/Sunday issue as it's all quite peripheral to me but I do acknowledge the importance of a rest day so I would love to get your thoughts on it.

Tofu:​

First let me say that the text you supplied is not the complete thought and there is a difference in a day of rest versus a holy day. Sunday over the centuries through the Papacy attempted to make it holy but it fail. You cannot make holy what never was holy but you can call it a day of worship which is totally different.​

We first need to complete the text thought along with other scriptures which I feel will answer your question themselves!​

Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day. Six days shalt thou labour, and shalt do all thy works. But on the seventh day is the Sabbath of Yahweh thy Elohim: thou shalt do no work on it, thou nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy beast, nor the stranger that is within thy gates. For in six days Yahweh made heaven and earth, and the sea, and all things that are in them, and rested on the seventh day: therefore Yahweh blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it. Ex 20:8-11

Let's bring out some interesting facts in this statement:​

1. The Sabbath is never to be forgotten by man, ​

2. Sabbath is made holy by Yahweh,​

3. No laborious work done by you, your family, people that work for you even a stranger that visit your home or your property,​

4. Yahweh commands that since he rested from all His work on the Sabbath first then all of His creature through the Heavens and the earth must do so as well,​

5. Yahweh rested, blessed and sanctified the seventh day of the weekly cycle that He named the Sabbath. ​

Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day Elohim ended his work which he had made: and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had done. And he blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. Gen 2:1-3 ​

Everything here is the original command given by Yahweh to all creation of the Universe and the earth that was repeated to all of Israel:​

1. The seventh day ended His work or labor which was all of creation,​

2. The seventh day He blessed sanctified and rested from all of Elohim's work He created all created beings in the Heavens and earth must obey and keep it as commanded.​

If thou turn away thy foot from the Sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the Sabbath a delight, the holy of Yahweh honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: Isa 58:13​

This Scripture is very emphatic and tells who the holy day belong to Yahweh. Do you read anywhere where it belongs to man in this text or any other if so show me?​

1. The holy Sabbath belongs to Yahweh,​

2. Turn your foot away from the Sabbath,

3. You cannot do your own pleasure on Yahweh's holy day,​

4. You must call the Sabbath a delightful day because it is holy, honorable and also honor Yahweh-wow,​

5. Man cannot do his own ways, finding you own pleasure and finally not speak your own words.​

The seventh day of the week was named by Yahweh as belonging solely to Him as His delight and you honor Yahweh when you keep it according to how He commands. ​

So all you SDA who have been going to restaurants, reading your mail, idle talk and jesting, eating at each other houses like so call spiritual parties, guess what you are just as guilty as anyone else too! It should be a day of studying, rejoicing, visiting for fellowship and about Elohim with reverence giving Elohim praise adoration in joy for bringing you to His rest day of refreshing! ​

Man has no holy day, no rest day but He has an obligation to obey not Sunday but the seventh day of the week that Yahweh Himself named the Sabbath in Heaven, throughout all of the worlds He made and call them sons of His and this earth!!!!!!​

Blessings,
stinsonmarri

 

[sdbpastor]

Hi all -

Just discovered this site - lots of good stuff to sink one's teeth into on Christian Forums. This thread alone is 19 pages of reading (which I've yet to cover all of it)!

Looks like a great thread of discussion going on here and I appreciate the "seeker" that got the ball rolling...that's one thing that SDBs cherish: "liberty of thought under the guidance of the Holy Spirit" as well as "encouraging the unhindered study and open discussion of Scripture" while "upholding the individual's freedom of conscience in seeking to determine and obey the will of God." (From Seventh Day Baptist Statement of Beliefs)

Just one perhaps very small contribution into all of the discussion for the seeker (and anyone else) - one thing that I've found to be extremely helpful is to first determine the principles underlying God's Sabbath as found in Scripture (it is holy, His, and honorable, for instance) and then seek to discern the practices that best exemplify the principles. :o)

Glad to be able to jump onboard this website and to jump into this thread!

Check out our church's page on Facebook (you'll find it by its name, Verona Seventh Day Baptist Church) and get to know us as a local church (settled, formed and formalized between 1804-1820) and our people as a denomination (been around in the US since 1671ish).

May God continue to bless you and yours as you seek to love Him and His!
Pastor Steven James

 

[stinsonmarri]

Exodus

20.8:Remember that thou keep holy the sabbath day.


I will keep this short but I would like to know how you personally keep Sabbath, what you regard as Holy and what you would not find to be appropriate. I won't get in to the debate regarding the Saturday/Sunday issue as it's all quite peripheral to me but I do acknowledge the importance of a rest day so I would love to get your thoughts on it.

Tofu:

Greetings again. I will keep it simple as well.

Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day Elohim ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And Elohim blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which Elohim created and made. These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that YAHWEH Elohim made the earth and the heavens, Gen 2:1-4​

Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of YAHWEH thy Elohim: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days YAHWEH made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore YAHWEH blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it. Ex 20:8-11 ​

If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the Sabbath a delight, the holy of YAHWEH, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: Then shalt thou delight thyself in YAHWEH; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of YAHWEH hath spoken it. Isa 58:13, 14​

The Bibles tells us how to keep the Sabbath holy and this is our guide!

Blessings,
stinsonmarri