sabbath practice

[Torah613]

The professional (specialization is pastry chef as well as hotel restraunt management):

1. It is true that nothing, and I do mean nothing, works as well as Lard for pastries.

2. Beef drippings, or Tallow, will leave a horendously overpowering taste to the pastry.

3. IMO Crisco is not much better unless you are planning on eating these pastries as the dessert to a meal in which meat has been served. In that case a good kosher vegetable shortening (such as Crisco) will suffice and make the pastries Pareve. This has the noted benefit of being all around the healthiest option.

4. good old fashioned fresh churned unsalted butter works wonderfully well for making a light flaky pastry.

5. Baklava, as well as most pastries made with phillo dough, is Pareve and thus can be eaten with either meat or dairy meals.

Yochanan

 

[HeatherMicaela]

My sister on the other hand, begged for 'Beanie Weenies' (I'm sure some of ya'll remember that brand) for her birthday and other occasions. BLECH

at leat here in the states those are made w/chicken hot dogs

 

[zaksmummy]

I've been to the butchers today he says try goose fat, apparently thats good for pastry, so I will and let you know. He says its good for lots of things and so many people have bought it he's had to double his order!

Catrin xx
PS never heard of Crisco, might not be able to get here.

 

[Torah613]

Crisco is a popular brand (at least in the colonies) of vegetable based shortening.

never heard of goose fat. Although if the goose is slaughtered Kosher, than I suppose it would work.

Yochanan

 

[ChazakEmunah]

Crisco is a popular brand (at least in the colonies) of vegetable based shortening.

never heard of goose fat. Although if the goose is slaughtered Kosher, than I suppose it would work.

Yochanan

But then your pastry would no longer be pareve.

 

[Hadassah]

I've been to the butchers today he says try goose fat, apparently thats good for pastry, so I will and let you know. He says its good for lots of things and so many people have bought it he's had to double his order!

Catrin xx
PS never heard of Crisco, might not be able to get here.

Probably can't since it is generally distributed in the US and on US bases...

But I am sure you can find vegetable based shortening that will work ok.

I found some out here in Germany that works rather well, though I haven't made any rolls or pastry yet other than cake or cake-like breads with it.

I'll try a creme horn recipe tomorrow and see how it turns out (of course that one is milk so not with meat)...

Most the recipes back home for breads call for Crisco or other veggie based shortening.

 

[zaksmummy]

Crisco is a popular brand (at least in the colonies) of vegetable based shortening.

never heard of goose fat. Although if the goose is slaughtered Kosher, than I suppose it would work.

Yochanan

I'm afraid we cant really do Kosher food as there are no kosher butchers near us, so we eat clean foods but that arent kosher.

The goose fat is made by Prince Charles' estate, Highgrove.

Catrin xx

 

[Torah613]

But then your pastry would no longer be pareve.

excellent point Chazak.

Yochanan

 

[Torah613]

I'm afraid we cant really do Kosher food as there are no kosher butchers near us, so we eat clean foods but that arent kosher.

The goose fat is made by Prince Charles' estate, Highgrove.

Catrin xx

My personal suggestion is to forgo eating meat until such time as a Shochet can be trained (or enticed to take up residence nearer to where you live). Perhaps if you make trips to areas in your country that have an Orthodox presence you can take along a cooler with some dry ice in order to bring the meat back home. This is what my bubbe did when she lived near us in rural Arkansas.

Besides the arguable health benefits of being vegetarian (and its Yiddishe implications--more on that later), it is a fact that a clean animal that is not slaughtered Kosher is not Kosher. The obvious exception being fish that has both scales and gills. I have heard of some frum people taking treyf (nonKosher meat) and rinsing it after soaking it in salt to draw out the blood. In my opinion, and note this is only my personal opinion, such does not work as the intent of the Kosher slaughtering practice is to cause instantanious death to the creature so that it does not suffer. Thus the knife used must be carefully inspected between each slaughter to make sure that it has no knicks, etc. Modern slaughtering practices do not follow this, and thus immense suffering is caused to the animal causing a release of adrenaline into the meat which can have adverse health reactions in its consumers.

Yochanan

 

[zaksmummy]

My personal suggestion is to forgo eating meat until such time as a Shochet can be trained (or enticed to take up residence nearer to where you live). Perhaps if you make trips to areas in your country that have an Orthodox presence you can take along a cooler with some dry ice in order to bring the meat back home. This is what my bubbe did when she lived near us in rural Arkansas.

Besides the arguable health benefits of being vegetarian (and its Yiddishe implications--more on that later), it is a fact that a clean animal that is not slaughtered Kosher is not Kosher. The obvious exception being fish that has both scales and gills. I have heard of some frum people taking treyf (nonKosher meat) and rinsing it after soaking it in salt to draw out the blood. In my opinion, and note this is only my personal opinion, such does not work as the intent of the Kosher slaughtering practice is to cause instantanious death to the creature so that it does not suffer. Thus the knife used must be carefully inspected between each slaughter to make sure that it has no knicks, etc. Modern slaughtering practices do not follow this, and thus immense suffering is caused to the animal causing a release of adrenaline into the meat which can have adverse health reactions in its consumers.

Yochanan

Thank you for your suggestion, however I doubt very much that any butcher within a thirty mile radius of us is likely to sell Kosher food. We live in the centre of England, the non-white population is 0.04%, mainly Asian and Chines people. I only know of one Jewish family in our town, who dont practice their faith.

Most of my journey into Hebrew roots so far has been led and prompted by the Holy Spirit, and he as of yet has not prompted me to eat either kosher meat or become vegetarian, just clean food, so whilst I appreciate your comments, cant see either outcome at this time.

Catrin xx

 

[Henaynei]

those who have no access to a shoket and so do their best with what they do have, clean animals only and salting/soaking, are essentially no different from the Jews who for centuries wore a tallit with tzitzit without the blue thread, because they had lost the way to make the blue, so some wore only white threads and some sects used a black thread in it's place, and then called it kosher..... or the Jewish people who have replaced the sacrifices in the Temple with prayer, tzedaka and fasting (which it says NO where in Torah is acceptable as a replacement, nothing is *ever* stated as a replacement) for the Yom Kippur and other sacrifices....

in *all* these cases (lack of a shoket, lack of the blue dye and lack of a sacrifice) the Jeswish people have made great efforts to come as close as they can to the commandmemt as a statement to HaShem that they *know* it is not *purely* "kosher" in any of these (and numerous similar adaptations they have made over the centuries) situations but they are making a sincere effort to come as close as possible .... until such time as HaShem himself provides a way to be *truly* kosher ....

 

[cyberlizard]

again i am likely to show my ignorance... but here goes anyway.


Is there not a big difference between what is biblically kosher, and what is rabbinically kosher?

I mean technically, coming from a background with biology, there is no way on this planet to remove ALL the blood from a piece of meet. Sure you can remove 99.9% but you never actually remove it all.

So can anyone point out the differences between biblical and rabbinic standards, as the rabbinic standards from what i have read seem much, much, much stricter than biblical requirements. Is it that they just err (if that's the right word) on the side of caution.


Steve

 

[christianmomof3]

again i am likely to show my ignorance... but here goes anyway.


Is there not a big difference between what is biblically kosher, and what is rabbinically kosher?

I mean technically, coming from a background with biology, there is no way on this planet to remove ALL the blood from a piece of meet. Sure you can remove 99.9% but you never actually remove it all.

So can anyone point out the differences between biblical and rabbinic standards, as the rabbinic standards from what i have read seem much, much, much stricter than biblical requirements. Is it that they just err (if that's the right word) on the side of caution.


Steve

I think I have seen it online in a chart form somewhere which is clearer, but so far I found this article: http://www.seedofabraham.net/kosher.html
and this:
http://tzion.org/articles/Kosher.html

 

[Torah613]

Zaksmummy:

Please accept my apologies for my harsh words and hasty suggestion. They were stated before having slept and without due consideration.

As hennaynai pointed out, salting and soaking trayf (but from clean animals), is perfectly acceptable. My dietary life as a vegetarian is not something that everyone comes too, and for health reasons not everyone can be vegetarian. Of course those reasons are better elucidated by someone who has more medical knowledge than myself.

Of course being vegetarian (actually I'm vegan meaning no animal products whatsoever) makes eating out fairly easy. Everything is Pareve!

Of course, unless you are both Halachically Jewish and understand the intricacies of Kashrut, you are under no obligation to keep Kosher. Even if you were, doing the best you can in your situation is good enough, at least in my opinion.

Yochanan

 

[zaksmummy]

Yochanan, there is no need to apologise for two reasons

1. Everyone's opinion is valid and appreciated (you are helping us in our journey to freedom in God)

2. I often get foot in mouth syndrome as well

Catrin xx

 

[Talmidah]

Please accept my apologies for my harsh words and hasty suggestion. They were stated before having slept and without due consideration.

Boy am I glad that I'm never guilty of hasty answers without due consideration while sleep deprived.

 

[Henaynei]

Boy am I glad that I'm never guilty of hasty answers without due consideration while sleep deprived.

U & Me both

 

[Talmidah]

i have said this before, and no doubt i will say it again, but i do not mind looking stupid if i learn something.

if i keep the sabbath, then does that mean the food i east must be cold? (especially on the saturday half of the day)

I ask as I understand that the lighting and extinguishing of fire (for cooking or car engines) is classed as one of the forms of 'work'.

please can someone explain it to me very simply.


Many thanks



Steve

Hi Steve Do you feel like you are obligated to 'keep the sabbath'?

 

[visionary]

those who have no access to a shoket and so do their best with what they do have, clean animals only and salting/soaking, are essentially no different from the Jews who for centuries wore a tallit with tzitzit without the blue thread, because they had lost the way to make the blue, so some wore only white threads and some sects used a black thread in it's place, and then called it kosher..... or the Jewish people who have replaced the sacrifices in the Temple with prayer, tzedaka and fasting (which it says NO where in Torah is acceptable as a replacement, nothing is *ever* stated as a replacement) for the Yom Kippur and other sacrifices....

in *all* these cases (lack of a shoket, lack of the blue dye and lack of a sacrifice) the Jeswish people have made great efforts to come as close as they can to the commandmemt as a statement to HaShem that they *know* it is not *purely* "kosher" in any of these (and numerous similar adaptations they have made over the centuries) situations but they are making a sincere effort to come as close as possible .... until such time as HaShem himself provides a way to be *truly* kosher ....

So swinging the chicken and wringing its neck over my head is out?

 

[Henaynei]

So swinging the chicken and wringing its neck over my head is out?

yeah, well, probably