Sabbath on Sunday against God?

[Cary.Melvin]

Hello all

After making my last post someone contacted me and wanted me to reedit my post claiming I am in error comparing them to The Jehovah's
on their position that Jesus is a created being. I do not believe I am in error so I will not edit that post. But what I have decided to do is Post some of the material I have in my personal file and let the reader come to their own conclusions on the matter.


The pioneers, for the most part, were young and inexperienced. Most rejected the Trinity, and thought Christ was a created being. The pioneers were certainly not right on everything. statement from a letter written by Robert Brinsmead ex sda pastor

The following are quotes from the writings of Ellen G White.

1897 comment on Rev 8:3,
"the ministry of the angel at the altar of incense is representative of Christ's intercession"...
{ms 15, 1897}

1900"The mighty angel who instructed John{Rev1:1} was no less than the person of Christ"
{ms 59,1900}

1903"The man Christ Jesus was not the Lord God Almighty "{ms 150,SDA Bible commentary
Vol.5 p.1129}

1904 "To Christ had been given an exalted position. He has been made equal with the Father {Testimonies Vol. 8, pg.268}

1905 comment on Rev 10:6"In swearing by the creator the angel who is Christ, swore by himself." { ibid. ,pg 798

Prophets and kings pg.572
"For three weeks Gabriel wrestled with the powers of darkness, seeking to counteract the influences at work on the mind of Cyrus; and before the contest closed Christ himself came to Gabriel's aid."

The above quote is Ellen Whites interpretation of Daniel 10:13
Da 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

Patriarchs and Prophets, pg761 paragraph 5 Ch. title: appendix
Again Christ is called the Word of God. John1:1-3 . He is so called because God gave his revelations to man in all ages through Christ. it was his spirit that inspired the prophets 1 Pet.1:10,11 he was revealed to them as the angel of Jehovah, the captain of the Lords host, Michael the Archangel

The following quotes are from The Adventist Clear Word which they claim is a paraphrase of the bible, they use this as a devotional and study
guide. The Adventist Clear Word is written Chapter and verse just like any standard bible and when first published in 1994 it was actually had the word bible in the title. There was a lot of upset people over the this title so the Clear Word Bible became the Clear word and is still in print today. I will post the Original KJV and then the Clear Word verse. All references to the divinity of Jesus have been removed from the Clear Word

Jn 20:28KJV
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and My God .

Jn 20:28 Clear Word
Thomas stood there speechless, then fell to his knees and said, Lord, your alive! They were right I believe! You are the Son of God

Matt 20:20KJV
Then came to him the mother of Zebedee's children with her sons, worshipping him, and desiring a certain thing from him.

Matt 20:20 Clear Word
While they were resting in Jericho before going to Jerusalem, the mother of James and John came to Jesus ,asking him if he would be so kind as to do her a favor.

Jn 8:58KJV
Jesus said unto them ,verily verily I say unto you , Before Abraham was, I am.

Jn 8:58 Clear Word
Jesus said, Because I existed before Abraham was born.

1 Thess 4:16KJV
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God and the dead in Christ shall rise first.

1Thess 4:16 Clear Word
When Christ descends from heaven as the Archangel he will give a shout of command-the trumpet call of God to the dead-and the dead in Christ will rise first.

Jude 1:9KJV
Yet Michael the archangel when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, the Lord rebuke thee.

Jude 1:9Clear Word
In contrast to these ungodly men is the Lord Jesus, also called Michael the archangel for he was challenged by Satan about his intentions to resurrect Moses, He didn't come at Satan with a blistering attack, nor did he belittle him, He simply said, God rejects your claim to his body.

I am not perfect and yes I am capable of error. But I do try to do thorough
research before making any claims and in my opinion I am not in error on this
issue


yours in Christ
deu58

I was under the understanding that the Seventh-Day Adventist beleived in the divinity of Christ and the Trinity. If this is not true, I may be wrong on the Catholic position on their Christian status.

Are you sure that was from the mainline SDA Church and not some splinter group?

 

[FreeinChrist]

"Sin is the transgression of the law."—1 John 3:4. Jesus did not die to destroy the law and enable us more easily to sin. He died to destroy the power of the evil one in our lives and enable us to obey the law.

In the new covenant, God says, "I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people" (Heb 8:10).

Yes, but we are not under the Law as given to Moses - otherwise we would need red heifers, and hcan't wear cloth made of 2 fibers.

I've heard all the SDA dogma before.

 

[FreeinChrist]

I was under the understanding that the Seventh-Day Adventist beleived in the divinity of Christ and the Trinity. If this is not true, I may be wrong on the Catholic position on their Christian status.

Are you sure that was from the mainline SDA Church and not some splinter group?

Yes, they do believe in the divinity of Christ and believe in the Trinity. They are Christians, however, very legalistic ones. However, they believe that Michael the Archangel is a name for Christ. And they believe in a doctrine called Investigative Judgement, as a second phase of atonement. It supposedly started in 1844. The many I have interacted with do not like the writings of Paul very much.

 

[deu58]

hello cary melvin

When dealing with Adventists you have to deal with them on an Individual basis.
Because of Ellen White the church is very fragmented some try to follow her word for word and the are even against there own church brothers and sisters. They refer to the moderate and liberal Adventists as laodocian. The ones Christ will spew from his mouth. The reason I know so much about Adventism is because I am married to one. She is a trinity beleiver and thought that I was lying to her about sister White not beleiving in the Trinity until I showed her in the writings. She was shocked. My wife was born an Adventist and still she did not know. Many Adventists are trinitarian christian beleivers and do not even really know about all the things ellen white wrote about. Try to remember this woman wrote thousands of pages on how the church should operate. Not hundreds of pages but thousands.

Do not throw the baby out with the bath water. I have three Adventists medical missionaries staying in my house right now. Two are trinitarian and one is not. one is and has been a very dear friend for nine years. this man gave up his entire life to help the poor. He is not interested in sharing Adventism. He shares christ risen. if they accept or reject any other thing that is fine with him as long as they accept christ So do not be so quick to Judge or dismiss them. Give them a chance to state there
own position first. As to being main line or splinter Ellen White is the main line
of the Adventist church. She died in 1915 and began her writing career in the
late 1840's. Many of the writings have been changed or suppresed. At ellenwhite org there is a recent news article posted about an incident that happened at a local SDA univirsity involving sacandal and fraud. Some how
the question was raised as to why the books of ellen white are still being
printed and taught from when so many in senior positions know there are serious problems in many of the writings. one pastor spoke with out giving his
name saying the church has 1 billion dollar business distributing these books
world wide.

yours in Christ
deu58

 

[JOYfulbeliever]

Mod hat on:

Okay folks...let's get back to the original topic here...

Mod hat off

 

[deu58]

1John5:3,

I cannot debate you here, as I would be in further violation of the rules I have already neglected once. I will not make that mistake again. However, if you would be so kind as to start a thread in IDD, where I and other Christians could offer you a different historical and biblical perspective, I would welcome it. I would warn you that I will participate initially, however, if we end up slinging verses at each other, without the other taking the time to contemplate the verses, then it would be fruitless. Nonetheless, I welcome the topic for discusssion.

God bless you, and me.

Hello artanax

I am not sure if you are addressing me or someone else. If you accept sunday as a legitamet day of worship and i also am of the same mind then what points do you wish to debate? If any one wants to debate the legitamcy of the Mosaic law and the Saturday sabbath we are already doing that on the understanding the sabbath thread and you are welcome to Join us things do get a little hot and the fur does fly sometimes.

Before you decide to debate with me you may want to click on my profile and track all my posts on that thread to see if there is anything we really have to debate about. No easy task though I have many posts there and most are rather long. But there are some sabbath keepers who hold we should drop everything we believe right now and start worshiping on saturday and they would probably be more than willing to debate with you if you are looking for one.

My personal position is under the law of Christ today a christian beleiver has the right to worship any day they choose as long as it is done in truth and spirit and no person has the right to interfere trying to force their personal beliefs upon that person against their will. If you disagree with that then we would need to start a new thread debating what is christian liberty under Christ.

yours in christ
deu58

 

[artnalex]

deu58:

Hello artanax

I am not sure if you are addressing me or someone else. If you accept sunday as a legitamet day of worship and i also am of the same mind then what points do you wish to debate? If any one wants to debate the legitamcy of the Mosaic law and the Saturday sabbath we are already doing that on the understanding the sabbath thread and you are welcome to Join us things do get a little hot and the fur does fly sometimes.

Before you decide to debate with me you may want to click on my profile and track all my posts on that thread to see if there is anything we really have to debate about. No easy task though I have many posts there and most are rather long. But there are some sabbath keepers who hold we should drop everything we believe right now and start worshiping on saturday and they would probably be more than willing to debate with you if you are looking for one.

My personal position is under the law of Christ today a christian beleiver has the right to worship any day they choose as long as it is done in truth and spirit and no person has the right to interfere trying to force their personal beliefs upon that person against their will. If you disagree with that then we would need to start a new thread debating what is christian liberty under Christ.

yours in christ
deu58

You will laugh after you realize this, BUT, if you re-read my post (which you included in your reply to me) you will see that I was posting to someone in particular - which you just overlooked somehow. It happens.

I'll post it for you again (look for the bold letters, which are underlined).

1John5:3,

I cannot debate you here, as I would be in further violation of the rules I have already neglected once. I will not make that mistake again. However, if you would be so kind as to start a thread in IDD, where I and other Christians could offer you a different historical and biblical perspective, I would welcome it. I would warn you that I will participate initially, however, if we end up slinging verses at each other, without the other taking the time to contemplate the verses, then it would be fruitless. Nonetheless, I welcome the topic for discusssion.

God bless you, and me.

As you can see, I was addressing a person who goes by the name of 1John5:3.

 

[deu58]

Hi artanax

Ok I see it now. I thought you were posting a verse. I did not realize it was somebody's screen name and it was right under my post so thats what confused me. sorry about that. It really had me scratching my head wondering
what did I do to this guy? And you are right I am laughing now.

yours in Christ
deu59