Sabbath keeping questions

[D.A. Wright]

Thanks for the brief history. I bought in hook, line and sinker also, then came all the extra-Biblical teachings.

I thought I did too.

So, you're easily led, then?

 

[D.A. Wright]

It is evident from your story about her that she didn't understand that the new covenant is not about keeping a day.

So you have quite sufficient evidence that my grandmother thought the new covenant was about keeping a day. Interesting. I had 3 other grandmothers who must have thought the new covenant was about keeping a day, as well. Or maybe they just thought it was a good idea for a Christian to keep the ten commandments with no covenant strings attached. And that maybe "ten" meant ten, and not nine. Or, maybe they didn't bother themselves with that kind of foolishness at all, and were just simple people who tried to do what they thought was right, to the best of their knowledge. Yeah, I think that was probably it. But feel free to bust on my deceased grandparents some more, if you need something like that to prove the "dead letter" hypothesis. I've got fairly thick skin.

If you are going to try to make me feel inadequate or apologetic you have another think coming.

No such aim or desire. You brought that up.

 

[D.A. Wright]

a trite, stereotyped expression; a sentence or phrase, usually expressing a popular or common thought or
idea, that has lost originality, ingenuity, and impact by long overuse.

Thanks for the dictionary copy-and-paste. So Biblical information regarding a certain subject is trite, and has lost its originality by long overuse. Got it.

 

[D.A. Wright]

Jesus is the one that includes Gentiles in the new covenant

You must treat the foreigner living among you as native-born and love him as yourself, for you were foreigners in the land of Egypt. I am the LORD your God. (Leviticus 19:34)

 

[D.A. Wright]

Talk about proof texts. Adventists are famous for marking their Bibles with so-called proof texts.

Proof-texts are a bona fide method of presenting the teaching of Scripture. I was merely referring to one being misused.

 

[D.A. Wright]

Whyd did you even bring it up again? I agree with you.

Except that it's a stereotyped expression that has lost its ingenuity.

The fact is that the Sabbath ended when the new covenant was ratified with Jesus blood at Calvary.

Actually, it was just beginning:

It was the preparation day, and the Sabbath was about to begin. Now the women who had come with Him out of Galilee followed, and saw the tomb and how His body was laid. Then they returned and prepared spices and perfumes.
And on the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment.
(Luke 23:54-56)

 

[D.A. Wright]

You have no idea how proficient I am concerning the Sinai covenant and the new covenant.

Where arises the need for proficiency? It's truly not rocket science. God gave them laws and promised to prosper them if they would keep them. They promised to do everything He said. But most all felt no need for help when they discovered that they could not keep them of their own power. So the covenant failed because of the promises of evil men who felt not their need of a savior. Strike one. God then promises to write His laws on men's hearts and to be their God and make and keep them holy. He is still waiting for us to let Him in. He stands at the door and knocks. We have better things to do.

all you are conniving to do is discredit me.

Ascribe motive much?

 

[D.A. Wright]

I can give you more examples of what the church really teaches.

I'm prepared to have a separate discussion of the ministry of Mrs. White at your earliest convenience. It is strictly a matter of Systematic Theology and is not appropriate for discussion of Biblical exegesis or Biblical Theology.

 

[D.A. Wright]

It was Paul who used the expression about the 10 commandments and he was right on. They were a part of the laws of the Sinai covenant my SDA friend and they became defunct when the Sinai covenant gave way to the new and better covenant with better promises. Paul wrote that the 10 were replaced with the Holy Spirit. Why do you deny that fact?

Because my ex-"SDA" friend, it is not a fact. It is not a simple matter of death in the law and life in the Spirit. It is a matter of faulty, human presumption versus better, divine faith (the subject of nearly the entire book of Hebrews). The Great Apostle rarely teaches in simple terms. He was extremely intelligent and Peter warns explicitly about the dangers of less-than-careful consideration of his material. Let me ask you a simple question. If this subject is not one of the things "hard to be understood" to which Peter was referring, have you ever wondered which of his teachings are the subject of Peter's warning? Do you have any in mind? Perhaps a written list of his teachings that trouble you? Are we to believe that the peculiar things that usually crop up such as male headship or food offered to idols are what Peter is warning might destroy us?

 

[Bob S]

So, you're easily led, then?

I was when I was 22 years old and didn't understand much of the Bible especially the old and new covenants.

 

[Bob S]

So you have quite sufficient evidence that my grandmother thought the new covenant was about keeping a day.

That is absolutely not in any way what I wrote. No wonder you have been led into false doctrine.

Interesting. I had 3 other grandmothers who must have thought the new covenant was about keeping a day, as well. Or maybe they just thought it was a good idea for a Christian to keep the ten commandments with no covenant strings attached. And that maybe "ten" meant ten, and not nine. Or, maybe they didn't bother themselves with that kind of foolishness at all, and were just simple people who tried to do what they thought was right, to the best of their knowledge.

I like your last thought. That, too, is how I would describe you. That is how I got into Adventism.

Yeah, I think that was probably it. But feel free to bust on my deceased grandparents some more, if you need something like that to prove the "dead letter" hypothesis. I've got fairly thick skin.

Sounds much like you have a chip on your shoulders.

No such aim or desire. You brought that up.

Brought up what?

 

[Bob S]

Where arises the need for proficiency? It's truly not rocket science. God gave them laws and promised to prosper them if they would keep them. They promised to do everything He said. But most all felt no need for help when they discovered that they could not keep them of their own power. So the covenant failed because of the promises of evil men who felt not their need of a savior. Strike one. God then promises to write His laws on men's hearts and to be their God and make and keep them holy.

If I didn't know better I would have to believe you believe, from what you wrote, once saved always saved.

According to Hebrews the covenant He made with Israel at Calvary was a better covenant with better promises. That is not like the old one now, is it?

He is still waiting for us to let Him in. He stands at the door and knocks. We have better things to do.

Please do not include me in the "we" thing. I have given my heart to Jesus and I rest in Him. I know I am of the truth because I believe in Jesus and love my fellow man as Jesus loves us. 1Jn3:19-24. Loves covers all aspects of morality not just the 9 laws found in the 10.

Ascribe motive much?

?????

 

[Bob S]

I'm prepared to have a separate discussion of the ministry of Mrs. White at your earliest convenience. It is strictly a matter of Systematic Theology and is not appropriate for discussion of Biblical exegesis or Biblical Theology.

So, you would like the chance to defend Ellen as being a true Prophet?

 

[Bob S]

Because my ex-"SDA" friend, it is not a fact. It is not a simple matter of death in the law and life in the Spirit. It is a matter of faulty, human presumption versus better, divine faith (the subject of nearly the entire book of Hebrews). The Great Apostle rarely teaches in simple terms.

He certainly did in in 2Cor3, Eph 2, Col 2 and Gal 3.

He was extremely intelligent and Peter warns explicitly about the dangers of less-than-careful consideration of his material. Let me ask you a simple question. If this subject is not one of the things "hard to be understood" to which Peter was referring, have you ever wondered which of his teachings are the subject of Peter's warning? Do you have any in mind? Perhaps a written list of his teachings that trouble you? Are we to believe that the peculiar things that usually crop up such as male headship or food offered to idols are what Peter is warning might destroy us?

Well, there is one little tidbit that puzzled me for years and that is where Paul writes that women in the church should remain silent as according to the law.

1 Corinthians 14:34
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

There is no law in all of scripture that prohibits women from speaking anyplace they please.

 

[D.A. Wright]

So, you would like the chance to defend Ellen as being a true Prophet?

I am fully prepared to have a candid discussion about the ministry of Mrs. White; yes.

 

[Bob S]

I am fully prepared to have a candid discussion about the ministry of Mrs. White; yes.

Pick a topic and start a thread you feel that would convince a person to change their beliefs to follow Ellen White's writings. You certainly have a wide verity of subjects to choose from. Unlike the Biblical
Prophets that usually prophesied on just one subject and their prophesies came to pass.

The problem with most of Ellen's revelations is that this forum is dedicated to Sabbath and the law and her writings cover many topics out of Sabbath and the Law. Any thoughts?

 

[D.A. Wright]

Pick a topic and start a thread you feel that would convince a person to change their beliefs to follow Ellen White's writings.

Why would I do that? That would be inconsistent with the purpose of her ministry. I'm not a "Sister White," out-of-control zealot.

Unlike the Biblical
Prophets that usually prophesied on just one subject and their prophesies came to pass.

Have you ever read the book of Daniel? Or Revelation? Is this a joke? Am I being punk'd?

The problem with most of Ellen's revelations is that this forum is dedicated to Sabbath and the law and her writings cover many topics out of Sabbath and the Law. Any thoughts?

After a while of fielding nonsense, it becomes extremely difficult to avoid insulting someone. This statement/question is nearly unintelligible. It would be almost impossible for me to address it without appearing to concur with part of its whole. Would you like to rephrase it, maybe?

 

[D.A. Wright]

Well, there is one little tidbit that puzzled me for years and that is where Paul writes that women in the church should remain silent as according to the law.

So Peter (under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost) sees a danger, goes out on a limb, and risks impugning the Great Apostle's credibility... And the only thing that confuses you is a controversial text that is easily interpreted in its context? The entire chapter is about things being done in an orderly fashion, which is even expressed in the summation contained in the last verse (1 Corinthians 14:40). Evidently, there was some ongoing counter-cultural schism involving women being audibly disruptive in church. The reference to the law was not about the disruption itself but about a rebellious attitude toward menfolk when they came under rebuke or censure for their behavior. Now (if my interpretation seems reasonable to you), I suppose you're all up-to-speed on the writings of Paul.

 

[Bob S]

Why would I do that? That would be inconsistent with the purpose of her ministry. I'm not a "Sister White," out-of-control zealot.

Have you ever read the book of Daniel? Or Revelation? Is this a joke? Am I being punk'd?

After a while of fielding nonsense, it becomes extremely difficult to avoid insulting someone. This statement/question is nearly unintelligible. It would be almost impossible for me to address it without appearing to concur with part of its whole. Would you like to rephrase it, maybe?

You sure do know how to hurt a fellow now do you not?
The problem with most of Ellen's revelations is that this forum is dedicated to Sabbath and the law and her writings cover many topics out of other than the Sabbath and the Law. Any thoughts? Never mind, you would just add another insult.

 

[D.A. Wright]

You sure do know how to hurt a fellow now do you not?

You'll be all right.

You and I both know that if either of us starts a thread like that, it's just going to invite a barrage of cannonade from the perspective opposition, which is probably why you want me to be the one to start it. I'll agree to that if we can agree to ignore everyone else. Or, if you like, we could just have a private conversation. Either way's fine with me, but if you really can't stand the heat, let's not venture into the kitchen, shall we? I don't pull any punches, and time's running out in the Great Controversy.

All the objections surrounding Mrs. White's ministry have been answered in Dr. Nichol's book, "Ellen G. White And Her Critics," before I was even born. When the anti-EGW web movement was in full swing around the year 2000, I did my own research online piece-by-piece because I didn't realize how good the book was and didn't want to drive 50 miles and pay for something that might not help me, anyway. Boy, was I dumb.

Anyway it's available for free online now here, here, and here. Nothing like it's been written since (nearly 70 years) because it's that exhaustive. The new egwwritings.org website has reference works and documents, including most of the books that have been written about her (good and bad), and even most of the books she borrowed from.