Sabbath keeping questions

[SamanthaAnastasia]

No mention of electricity in the Bible. People that are not even trying to keep the Sabbath have a lot of rules generally that are not even in the Bible when it comes to Sabbath keeping. Then when they finally accept that it is one of the Ten commandments and that it is important - they then settle for those things actually in the Bible.

Jews state that they do not use electricity because of fire as it deals with the sabbath keeping rules

 

[SamanthaAnastasia]

Lev 23:2-3 Seventh day Sabbath is a day of solemn assembly, holy convocation
Is 66:23 - "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship"
Is 58:13 an entire day of no secular activity

You didn’t answer the question.
It is either yes or no.

 

[Loyce KG]

You are confused the SABBATH is the SEVENTH DAY OF THE WEEK *GENESIS 2:1-3; EXODUS 20:8-11. Where does it say in God's WORD that JESUS is a SABBATH? It doesn't.

You know you could make your point without name-calling. We are all here to learn from each other and none of us holds utmost authority over scriptural interpretation. Kindly, correct others in love.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You know you could make your point without name-calling. We are all here to learn from each other and none is holds utmost authority over scriptural interpretation. Kindly, correct others in love.

Hello sister my post was not mean't as name calling. It was mean't in reference with the rest of the post only shared in love to show what you were stating was not biblical. Please forgive my shortcomings here as I do not wish you should take what I have written the wrong way. I hope this clarifies the intent of my post to you.

God bless

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Jews state that they do not use electricity because of fire as it deals with the sabbath keeping rules

Rabbinic Jews also do not mix chicken meat and milk...even though chickens do not even produce milk. The law in Torah only says not to boil a kid in its mother's milk. These are hedges or fences made by the Rabbis around the original "rule" so as to make 100% sure the original "rule" can absolutely not be broken. In the Mishnah, Rabbi Akiva says no mixing while Rabbi Yose says it is OK. These are man made laws that are not in the Torah...

Electricity in and of itself does not produce a flame, although it can if used specifically for that purpose. Now driving a car DOES produce flames...many flames per minute.

 

[woobadooba]

NOWHERE does the New Testament teach that keeping the Sabbath day is binding on Christians under the New Covenant.

NOWHERE does the New Testament teach that keeping the Sabbath day is no longer binding on Christians under the New Covenant. Therefore, because it is one of God's Ten Commandments, it is logical to conclude it must be kept.

And apparently, you aren't aware of early church history. The early church kept the Sabbath. Read: The Story of Christianity volume 1, by Justo L. Gonzalez. Read the section in it about The Early Church.

 

[BobRyan]

Jews state that they do not use electricity because of fire as it deals with the sabbath keeping rules

True they have a lot of traditions.

Mark 7:6-13 Christ deals with a few of the traditions of the Jews. I think the point he makes there is very compelling when comparing tradition to scripture.

 

[BobRyan]

So, can I just stay at home on Saturday and privately worship and go to church on Sunday?

Acts 18:4 "every Sabbath" Jews and gentiles gathered in the synagogue for worship and gospel preaching.

Lev 23:2-3 Seventh day Sabbath is a "day of solemn assembly", "holy convocation"
Is 66:23 - "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship"
Is 58:13 an entire day of no secular activity

You didn’t answer the question.
It is either yes or no.

In my response I show that the Sabbath requires more than rest - it also requires that on the Sabbath there is solemn assembly, holy convocation.

Your proposal is to use the Sabbath as a day of rest and some other day of the week as the day of solemn assembly and holy convocation.

 

[Dovid / עבד ישוע ...דוד]

In the New Testament—which celebrates the resurrection of Christ on the first day of the week—the central experience of our faith as Christians is commemorated every Sunday of the year. We find the fulfillment to that which was revealed in the Old Testament.

We are under no more obligation to follow the Saturday Sabbath than we are to follow Old Testament dietary restrictions—upon which today’s Kosher laws are derived—or to practice circumcision as a sign of our covenant with God.

Imagine if I came up to christians & used the "jesus freed me from the burden of the law, I'm now free to commit adultery & murder" excuse

Sounds ridiculous...?

It's exactly the same logic on the 4th commandment used for the 6th & 7th

Perhaps that explains why the 4th commandment begins with the word "Remember" because our God knew it would become the most forgotten................

 

[Dovid / עבד ישוע ...דוד]

The Lost sheep of the House of Israel...

This is a description of the (cast out) northern kingdom
The "cast out" northern kingdom to live in the exile. Outside the land
Southern kingdom = "House of Judah" (Jews)

What was the prophecy of the "House of Israel"....?
Otherwise known as Ephraim
Hence the popular term "Judah & Ephraim"

Who is "Ephraim"...?
Who is "House of Israel"...?
Today we easily know the House of Judah = Jews
Yet, not well known is the House of Israel = christians

So was Ephraim / House of Israel / christianity destined to have an issue with the 4th commandment...?

HOSEA 02:13
I will also cause all her mirth to cease,
Her feasts, her new moons, and her sabbaths,
And all her appointed seasons.

Whilst we are quick to expose the church for the deception of SUN-day over Sabbath.
One can clearly see, God prophecied it "to be" because He was disgusted with his wayward bride some 2700yr ago which continues to this very day.

The challenge for the christian is to "rise above" this curse (cancelling of High Sabbaths + regular Sabbath) & "walk as Messiah walked"

 

[ace of hearts]

what about churches that worship on Saturday and Sunday? Like vespers on Saturday and liturgy on Sunday?
Any thoughts?

Religion will only imprison you.

 

[Phronema]

Religion will only imprison you.

John 8:31-32

 

[Greengardener]

In the New Testament—which celebrates the resurrection of Christ on the first day of the week—the central experience of our faith as Christians is commemorated every Sunday of the year. We find the fulfillment to that which was revealed in the Old Testament.

We are under no more obligation to follow the Saturday Sabbath than we are to follow Old Testament dietary restrictions—upon which today’s Kosher laws are derived—or to practice circumcision as a sign of our covenant with God.

Some people see the scriptures as stating that Jesus was noted to be raised on the "first of the weeks," meaning the countdown to Pentecost. That might throw a wrench in the foundation of the weekly commemoration day. Along with that, the known history of the day change being associated with Constantinople several hundred years later might also erode the day change foundation. That the early believers, while gentile, were encouraged to keep the feasts, is obvious from the NT epistles. And that the OT God identified Himself as giving the sabbath, and Jesus said He was Lord of the sabbath (would this support that the Lord's Day is really sabbath, not Sunday?) both speak volumes to me that maybe the mainline churches have been following church history instead of staying safely within the words/laws of God whether OT or NT. It is always man's proclivity to "one up" any good idea, and there might be other aspects that humans don't even have a clue about in the discussion of whether, when, and how the followers of Jesus address the sabbath.

I've also wondered whether there might be more wisdom than we've realized in the dietary laws. While we can eat anything we like (we were given the gift of choosing), it might be that there are reasons to consider some things food and other things as not food, not for salvation's sake, since eating doesn't make one more righteous, but maybe for other reasons. It just doesn't make sense to me for God to be fickle about what He told those people He called His own. Yea, I know about the sheet Peter saw, and that God said not to call unclean what God cleaned, but the immediate application was those "unclean" gentiles, and it's hard for me to think that when Peter went to Cornelius home his first thoughts was the joy of tasting his first ham sandwich. Years of rabbinic indoctrination appears to have caused some scaling over the Jewish eyes (and understandably), even with Jesus telling them that they would take this message to the gentiles and even with Pentecost and supernaturally communicating in other languages. That's my take on this.

 

[Danthemailman]

Religion will only imprison you.

Certain people have a very difficult time making the transition from the old covenant into the new covenant and end up mixing the two covenants together. The tragic end result is salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works." (Galatians 1:6-9)

 

[Shimshon]

Certain people have a very difficult time making the transition from the old covenant into the new covenant and end up mixing the two covenants together. The tragic end result is salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works." (Galatians 1:6-9)

You seem to believe the law and faith are opposed to each other. They are not. Galatians 3:21 Your supposed tragedy is pales in comparison to the real confusion your Christian fathers instilled by rejecting all things Jewish, by the fear of death, so changing the identity and message of the Messiah and his message.

Our boasting is not in the works of the law, but in a law that requires faith. The law of faith. Romans 3:27
Our faith upholds the law Romans 3:31

While it is very true that no person is justified by working the law, faith is not opposed to the law. Nor is the law opposed to our faith. They 'work' in tandem together.

Works of the law do not justify or make righteous the person doing them, faith does. So, consequentially, faith does not nullify the law.

You are correct that many here and abroad conflate the covenants. But to separate law and faith as opposed to each other is a knee jerk reaction to throw the pendulum to the completely opposite illogical end.

 

[Greengardener]

You seem to believe the law and faith are opposed to each other. They are not. Galatians 3:21 Your supposed tragedy is pales in comparison to the real confusion your Christian fathers instilled by rejecting all things Jewish, by the fear of death, so changing the identity and message of the Messiah and his message.

Our boasting is not in the works of the law, but in a law that requires faith. The law of faith. Romans 3:27
Our faith upholds the law Romans 3:31

While it is very true that no person is justified by working the law, faith is not opposed to the law. Nor is the law opposed to our faith. They 'work' in tandem together.

Works of the law do not justify or make righteous the person doing them, faith does. So, consequentially, faith does not nullify the law.

You are correct that many here and abroad conflate the covenants. But to separate law and faith as opposed to each other is a knee jerk reaction to throw the pendulum to the completely opposite illogical end.

For me, I've found that the parts fit together when one separates out NOT the OT from the NT, but separates out the legalistic approach from either the OT or the NOT. For me, pieces fell into place in a way that helped me see exactly what you are saying here - that the law is not one that needed to be nailed to the cross but as the law that give us liberty. The list of ordinances which was nailed was the list of ordinances as we broke that law repeatedly. Seeing the law as a guide - as David said to God, ALL your precepts are righteousness - rather than a yardstick of acceptance, seeing how Jesus did not nullify but approved and showed how to live the law, that's what fit the pieces together for me. With the depth perception we are offered from the views of both OT and NT, we can avoid the pitfalls of the easy-believism that would take salvation to the extreme of a simple set of (non-evidenced) words (although the scriptures say that with the mouth confession is made unto salvation) or the other extreme that tries to take gentiles and have them circumcised and "keep the laws" which imply not the precepts of God but all the trappings of every rabbinical commentator who tried to fit the written law into a quantifiable form, the same ones who came up with rules about sabbath keeping that we see Jesus straightening out with what was the truth from the beginning. When it comes down to simplicity, we all know that murder, disrespect, lying, stealing, and adultery are all...well...outright wrong things to do. If we choose better because it's in our hearts by the Holy Spirit, that's good and shows that we have that law in our hearts. If we see it in the Book and choose to agree, that's good and shows we have that law written by God's own finger that we've invited into our hearts. The goal is a clean response of holy living for children of a holy God.

 

[Greengardener]

Imagine if I came up to christians & used the "jesus freed me from the burden of the law, I'm now free to commit adultery & murder" excuse

Sounds ridiculous...?

It's exactly the same logic on the 4th commandment used for the 6th & 7th

Perhaps that explains why the 4th commandment begins with the word "Remember" because our God knew it would become the most forgotten................

Absolutely, Dovid. My thought is that we need to remember because our time together with God, our "dates" or "relationship" with God is foundational. Without that ongoing desire to be with Him, we shift Commandments #1,2, and 3 off to a side and the strong support those 10 commandments give us for how to make right decisions toward God and man begins to lose effect. And so the downward spiral begins. God wanted better for us from the start, and gave us the tools to be effective, if that's what we choose.

 

[godenver1]

NOWHERE does the New Testament teach that keeping the Sabbath day is no longer binding on Christians under the New Covenant. .

Except in Colossians 2:16-17, Galatians 4:10-11, Romans 14:5, Acts 15, Galatians 5:18, Acts 20:7, Hebrews 7, Hebrews 8 and Revelation 1:10.

Christians are not under the Mosaic law (Galatians 5:18). The Ten Commandments, as given to Israel, were apart of the Old Testament convenant (Deuteronomy 4:13). We aren't under that covenant (2 Corinthians 3:6).

If you wish to claim modern day believers must observe the Seventh day sabbath as the nation of Israel did, the Bible is not on your side and you teach false doctrine.

 

[Dovid / עבד ישוע ...דוד]

In the New Testament—which celebrates the resurrection of Christ on the first day of the week—the central experience of our faith as Christians is commemorated every Sunday of the year. We find the fulfillment to that which was revealed in the Old Testament.

We are under no more obligation to follow the Saturday Sabbath than we are to follow Old Testament dietary restrictions—upon which today’s Kosher laws are derived—or to practice circumcision as a sign of our covenant with God.

Lets do this with one simple verse..........

1-JOHN 02:06
If you are IN Messiah then you walk as Messiah walked

Lets do a few checks.

Messiah observed Sabbath
Messianic = Yes, I observe the day He observed
Christian = No, I follow the SUN-day

Messiah ate kosher
Messianic = Yes, I eat kosher as He did
Christian = No, I eat anything I like

Messiah upheld the 7-feast days
Messianic = Yes, I uphold the 7-feast days too
Christian = No, they are nothing

Messiah rejected the roman feast days (roman rule in 1st century)
Messianic = No, I reject all roman feast days
Christian = Yes, xmas (mithraism) & easter (ishtar) is a must


If my christian friends have eyes to see, they will see this simple truth.
If they don't then the excuses will come hard & fast

It's very simple........ Walk as Messiah walked, do as Messiah did
Messiah walked as Moses taught,
We must walk as Moses taught

If you do not walk as He walked you are NOT in Messiah
If you do walk as He walked then you are IN Messiah

It's so so simple for those with eyes to see.

Shalom

 

[Dovid / עבד ישוע ...דוד]

Give me a list of churches or denominations that worshiped on the sabbath before the Protestant reformation...

ACTS24:05
We have this man a leader of the sect of the Nazarenes

Paul was NEVER a christian. He was part of the Jewish sect of Nazarenes that "walked as Yeshua walked" (1JHN 2:6) until the gentiles started to steer everything off track in the 2nd + 3rd century

In christian language..... The 1st + 2nd century church of Jewish believers never discarded the "Law of Moses". Why...?

Had Yeshua or any Apostle even suggested to their Jewish audience that the Law is to be discarded / changed / altered / full-filled etc, they would have been stoned & called a false prophet.

This "law is cancelled / changed / altered dogma"only works on gentiles that are (sadly) never educated what the Bible really says...