• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Jason fourneir

New Member
Mar 12, 2022
2
0
52
mufindi
✟22,738.00
Country
Tanzania, United Republic Of
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Hi, I am a SDA Christian missionary in an African country where security is necessary 7 days a week for any business or institution to survive. I avoid doing all regular work on Sabbath but I find that I have to hire security guards on the mission premises even on Sabbath. Recently it has been suggested to me that we should at least not hire SDA individuals to work a sabbath shift. In my opinion, whether I hire an SDA or a non SDA to work a sabbath shift of security, I am hiring people to work on Sabbath and in my opinion, they are supplying an essential service for the mission. And no, they aren't volunteering during sabbath hours. They are paid to stand guard.

What insights might be out there that can help me in this situation? Jason
 

Original Happy Camper

One of GODS Children I am a historicist
Site Supporter
Mar 19, 2016
4,195
1,973
Alabama
✟509,426.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Hi, I am a SDA Christian missionary in an African country where security is necessary 7 days a week for any business or institution to survive. I avoid doing all regular work on Sabbath but I find that I have to hire security guards on the mission premises even on Sabbath. Recently it has been suggested to me that we should at least not hire SDA individuals to work a sabbath shift. In my opinion, whether I hire an SDA or a non SDA to work a sabbath shift of security, I am hiring people to work on Sabbath and in my opinion, they are supplying an essential service for the mission. And no, they aren't volunteering during sabbath hours. They are paid to stand guard.

What insights might be out there that can help me in this situation? Jason

The ox is in the ditch.

You are protecting people from evil

It is right to do good on the Sabbath
 
  • Like
Reactions: caecilius
Upvote 0

Original Happy Camper

One of GODS Children I am a historicist
Site Supporter
Mar 19, 2016
4,195
1,973
Alabama
✟509,426.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
That would be for the SDA person to decide

Hiring should not matter who they are if the purpose is good

Contemplate this
Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
 
  • Like
Reactions: caecilius
Upvote 0

Freth

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jul 11, 2020
1,647
1,991
Midwest, USA
✟579,552.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Single
Some of what Ellen wrote concerning work on the Sabbath:
  • The wrong influence.
    • "To [work] on this [Sabbath] day will give the impression that we are lax in principle, and thus a wrong influence will be exerted..." { 4MR 288.1 }
  • Backsliding.
    • "Those who are engaged in our [work] must have opportunity to rest on the Sabbath, else they will backslide." { 4MR 288.2 }
  • A witness to others.
    • "The closed doors on the Sabbath stamp the [workplace] as a memorial for God, a memorial that declares that the Seventh-day is the Sabbath, and that on it no unnecessary work is to be done. When thinking men find [we] are closed on the Sabbath, they will begin to make inquiries in regard to the principles that lead us to close our doors on Saturday. In answering their questions we shall have opportunity to make them acquainted with the truth for this time." { 4MR 288.3 }
  • God's work. His will.
    • "A work may apparently bear the features of supreme excellence, but it is not good in God’s sight unless it is performed with an earnest desire to do His will and fulfill His purpose. If God is not recognized as the author and end of our actions, they are weighed in the balances of the sanctuary and found wanting." { 4MR 289.2 }
  • Sabbath blessings.
    • "If we would enjoy the blessing of the Lord, the Sabbath-day must be kept holy." { At the Southern Camp-Meeting, May 25, 1882, para. 4 }
My takeaway from this is that we should trust in the Lord in the matter of security, and that it is not considered necessary work, and we should not be paying for security on the Sabbath.

Take for instance an SDA hospital, which is staffed on Sabbath. That is considered necessary work. Do they have security working on the Sabbath? I don't know.

The questions, in my mind:
  • Is hiring security essential to God's work?
  • Are there other ways to provide security that don't break the Sabbath, and cause others to break the Sabbath?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Freth

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jul 11, 2020
1,647
1,991
Midwest, USA
✟579,552.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Single
WHO determined this?

The OP, the person in question, must search their heart, pray on it and come to their own decision, and what their conscience tells them, based on a scriptural foundation.
 
Upvote 0

Original Happy Camper

One of GODS Children I am a historicist
Site Supporter
Mar 19, 2016
4,195
1,973
Alabama
✟509,426.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Take for instance an SDA hospital, which is staffed on Sabbath. That is considered necessary work.

My question is who determind in your statement above ref necassry work?
 
Upvote 0

Freth

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jul 11, 2020
1,647
1,991
Midwest, USA
✟579,552.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Single
My question is who determind in your statement above ref necassry work?

Regarding hospitals?

Seventh-day Adventist Church Biblical Research Institute

Opening Statement on this article regarding Sabbath observance. This document was prepared by a special Commission appointed in 1981 by the officers of the General Conference with the assignment of studying the biblical passages involved, reviewing how Seventh-day Adventists observe the Sabbath in various parts of the world, and dealing with the challenges confronting those seeking to worship God in true Sabbath reverence.

Excerpt regarding observance principles:

Principles Guiding Sabbath Observance. Although the Bible does not deal directly with many of the specific questions we may have regarding Sabbath observance in our day, it does provide us with general principles that are applicable today. (See Ex. 16:29; 20:8-11; 34:21; Isa. 58:13; Neh. 13:15-22.)

“The law forbids secular labor on the rest day of the Lord; the toil that gains a livelihood must cease; no labor for worldly pleasure or profit is lawful upon that day; but as God ceased His labor of creating, and rested upon the Sabbath and blessed it, so man is to leave the occupations of his daily life, and devote those sacred hours to healthful rest, to worship, and to holy deeds” (The Desire of Ages, p. 207).

This concept, however, is not supportive of total inactivity. Both the Old and New Testaments invite us to care for the needs and alleviate the sufferings of others, for the Sabbath is a good day for all, particularly the lowly and the oppressed (Ex. 23:12; Matt. 12:10-13; Mark 2:27; Luke 13:11-17; John 9:1-21).

Yet even good works on the Sabbath must not obscure the chief biblical characteristic of Sabbath observance, namely, rest (Gen. 2:1-3). This includes both physical (Ex. 23:12) and spiritual rest in God (Matt. 11:28). The latter leads the Sabbath observer to seek the presence of and communion with God in worship (Isa. 48:14), both in quiet meditation (Matt. 12:1-8) and in public worship (2 Kings 4:23; 11:4-12; 1 Chron. 23:30ff.; Isa. 56:1-8). Its object is to recognize God as Creator and Redeemer (Gen. 2:1-3; Deut. 5:12-15), and it is to be shared by the individual family and the larger community (Isa. 56:1-8).


Excerpt from the article, on health care:

Seventh-day Adventist Health-care Institutions. Adventist health-care institutions provide the only contact many people have with the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Adventist hospitals are to be more than merely health-care delivery systems. They have a unique opportunity to bear a Christian witness 24 hours a day to the communities they serve. In addition, they have the privilege of presenting the Sabbath message by example every week.

In healing the sick and loosing the bonds of the physically infirm, even on the Sabbath, Christ set an example that we look to as the basis for establishing and operating Adventist health-care institutions. Therefore, an institution offering medical care to the public must be prepared to minister to the needs of the sick and suffering without regard to hours or days.

This places a great responsibility on each institution to develop and implement policies that reflect the example of Christ, and to apply the principles of Sabbath observance as found in the Scriptures and taught by the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Administrators have a special responsibility to see that all departments maintain the true spirit of Sabbathkeeping by instituting appropriate Sabbath procedures and by guarding against laxity in its observance.

The following applications of Sabbath observance principles are recommended:

1. Provide emergency medical care willingly and cheerfully whenever needed, with high levels of excellence. However, neither Adventist institutions nor physicians and dentists should provide the same office or clinic services on the Sabbath as they do on weekdays.

2. Discontinue all routine activities that could be postponed. Usually this means a complete closing of those facilities and departments not immediately related to patient care, and the maintenance of a minimum number of qualified people in other departments to handle emergencies.

3. Postpone elective diagnostic and therapeutic services. Decisions as to what is necessary or of an emergency nature should be made by the attending physician. If this privilege is abused, it should be dealt with by the hospital administration. Nonadministrative institutional employees should not become involved in making these decisions, nor should they be obliged to confront the attending physician(s). Misunderstandings may be avoided by making it clear in medical staff bylaws that only surgical, diagnostic, or therapeutic procedures that are not postponable because of the condition of the patient will be done. A clear understanding with all who are appointed to staff membership at the time of appointment will do much to avoid misunderstandings and abuses.

Convenience and elective surgery should be discouraged or limited on Fridays. Procedures thus scheduled allow the patient to be in the hospital over the weekend and hence lose fewer days at work. However, this places the first postoperative day, usually with the most intensive nursing care, on the Sabbath.

4. Close administrative and business offices to routine business. Although it may be necessary to admit or discharge patients on the Sabbath, it is recommended that the rendering of bills and the collection of money be avoided. Never should the keeping of the Sabbath be a source of irritation to those we seek to serve and to save, but rather a hallmark of “the children of light” (Eph. 5:8; The Acts of the Apostles, p. 260).

5. Make the Sabbath a special day for patients, providing a memory of Christian witnessing never to be forgotten. Meaningful Sabbathkeeping is much easier to achieve in an institution that employs a predominantly Adventist staff. Presenting the Sabbath in a proper light can be accomplished by the believing workers employed in patient care, and may well be a convicting influence in the lives of those not of our faith.

6. The direct care of the sick is a seven-day-a-week activity. Illness knows no calendar. Nevertheless, when scheduling all personnel, health-care institutions should take into consideration the sincere religious beliefs, observances, and practices of each employee and prospective employee. The institution should make reasonable accommodation for such religious beliefs unless it is demonstrated that such accommodation would place an undue hardship on its operation. It is recognized that the consciences of individuals vary in regard to the propriety of Sabbath employment. Neither the church nor its institutions can act as the conscience for its employees. Rather, reasonable accommodation should be made for individual conscience.

7. Resist pressures for relaxing Seventh-day Adventist standards. Some institutions have been pressured by the communities, the medical staffs, and/or the employees (where a majority is comprised of non-Adventists) to abandon or weaken Sabbathkeeping principles and practices so that the Sabbath would be treated as any other day. In some cases pressure has been applied to maintain full services on the Sabbath and reduce them on Sunday instead. Such action should be vigorously resisted. Compliance would cause serious reexamination of the relationship of such an institution to the church.

8. Educate employees who are not Seventh-day Adventists concerning Sabbathkeeping principles practiced by the institution. Every non-Adventist, at the time of employment at an Adventist health-care institution, should be made aware of Seventh-day Adventist principles, especially institutional policies regarding the observance of the Sabbath. Though non-Adventists may not believe as we do, they should know from the very beginning how they are expected to fit into the institutional program to help it reach its objectives.

9. Foster an attitude for continuing Christian witnessing by Adventist employees. The only contact that many non-Adventist workers may ever have with Seventh-day Adventist workers be in the institution employing them. Every relationship should be friendly, kind, and expressive of the love that exemplified the life and work of the Great Physician. Compassion for the sick, unselfish regard for our fellowmen, an eagerness to serve, and unstinted loyalty to God and the church may well prove to be a savor of life unto life. The keeping of the Sabbath is a privilege and an honor as well as a duty. It should never become burdensome or obnoxious to those who keep it or to those about us.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Original Happy Camper

One of GODS Children I am a historicist
Site Supporter
Mar 19, 2016
4,195
1,973
Alabama
✟509,426.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Regarding hospitals?

Seventh-day Adventist Church Biblical Research Institute

Opening Statement on this article regarding Sabbath observance. This document was prepared by a special Commission appointed in 1981 by the officers of the General Conference with the assignment of studying the biblical passages involved, reviewing how Seventh-day Adventists observe the Sabbath in various parts of the world, and dealing with the challenges confronting those seeking to worship God in true Sabbath reverence.

Excerpt regarding observance principles:

Principles Guiding Sabbath Observance. Although the Bible does not deal directly with many of the specific questions we may have regarding Sabbath observance in our day, it does provide us with general principles that are applicable today. (See Ex. 16:29; 20:8-11; 34:21; Isa. 58:13; Neh. 13:15-22.)

“The law forbids secular labor on the rest day of the Lord; the toil that gains a livelihood must cease; no labor for worldly pleasure or profit is lawful upon that day; but as God ceased His labor of creating, and rested upon the Sabbath and blessed it, so man is to leave the occupations of his daily life, and devote those sacred hours to healthful rest, to worship, and to holy deeds” (The Desire of Ages, p. 207).

This concept, however, is not supportive of total inactivity. Both the Old and New Testaments invite us to care for the needs and alleviate the sufferings of others, for the Sabbath is a good day for all, particularly the lowly and the oppressed (Ex. 23:12; Matt. 12:10-13; Mark 2:27; Luke 13:11-17; John 9:1-21).

Yet even good works on the Sabbath must not obscure the chief biblical characteristic of Sabbath observance, namely, rest (Gen. 2:1-3). This includes both physical (Ex. 23:12) and spiritual rest in God (Matt. 11:28). The latter leads the Sabbath observer to seek the presence of and communion with God in worship (Isa. 48:14), both in quiet meditation (Matt. 12:1-8) and in public worship (2 Kings 4:23; 11:4-12; 1 Chron. 23:30ff.; Isa. 56:1-8). Its object is to recognize God as Creator and Redeemer (Gen. 2:1-3; Deut. 5:12-15), and it is to be shared by the individual family and the larger community (Isa. 56:1-8).


Excerpt from the article, on health care:

Seventh-day Adventist Health-care Institutions. Adventist health-care institutions provide the only contact many people have with the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Adventist hospitals are to be more than merely health-care delivery systems. They have a unique opportunity to bear a Christian witness 24 hours a day to the communities they serve. In addition, they have the privilege of presenting the Sabbath message by example every week.

In healing the sick and loosing the bonds of the physically infirm, even on the Sabbath, Christ set an example that we look to as the basis for establishing and operating Adventist health-care institutions. Therefore, an institution offering medical care to the public must be prepared to minister to the needs of the sick and suffering without regard to hours or days.

This places a great responsibility on each institution to develop and implement policies that reflect the example of Christ, and to apply the principles of Sabbath observance as found in the Scriptures and taught by the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Administrators have a special responsibility to see that all departments maintain the true spirit of Sabbathkeeping by instituting appropriate Sabbath procedures and by guarding against laxity in its observance.

The following applications of Sabbath observance principles are recommended:

1. Provide emergency medical care willingly and cheerfully whenever needed, with high levels of excellence. However, neither Adventist institutions nor physicians and dentists should provide the same office or clinic services on the Sabbath as they do on weekdays.

2. Discontinue all routine activities that could be postponed. Usually this means a complete closing of those facilities and departments not immediately related to patient care, and the maintenance of a minimum number of qualified people in other departments to handle emergencies.

3. Postpone elective diagnostic and therapeutic services. Decisions as to what is necessary or of an emergency nature should be made by the attending physician. If this privilege is abused, it should be dealt with by the hospital administration. Nonadministrative institutional employees should not become involved in making these decisions, nor should they be obliged to confront the attending physician(s). Misunderstandings may be avoided by making it clear in medical staff bylaws that only surgical, diagnostic, or therapeutic procedures that are not postponable because of the condition of the patient will be done. A clear understanding with all who are appointed to staff membership at the time of appointment will do much to avoid misunderstandings and abuses.

Convenience and elective surgery should be discouraged or limited on Fridays. Procedures thus scheduled allow the patient to be in the hospital over the weekend and hence lose fewer days at work. However, this places the first postoperative day, usually with the most intensive nursing care, on the Sabbath.

4. Close administrative and business offices to routine business. Although it may be necessary to admit or discharge patients on the Sabbath, it is recommended that the rendering of bills and the collection of money be avoided. Never should the keeping of the Sabbath be a source of irritation to those we seek to serve and to save, but rather a hallmark of “the children of light” (Eph. 5:8; The Acts of the Apostles, p. 260).

5. Make the Sabbath a special day for patients, providing a memory of Christian witnessing never to be forgotten. Meaningful Sabbathkeeping is much easier to achieve in an institution that employs a predominantly Adventist staff. Presenting the Sabbath in a proper light can be accomplished by the believing workers employed in patient care, and may well be a convicting influence in the lives of those not of our faith.

6. The direct care of the sick is a seven-day-a-week activity. Illness knows no calendar. Nevertheless, when scheduling all personnel, health-care institutions should take into consideration the sincere religious beliefs, observances, and practices of each employee and prospective employee. The institution should make reasonable accommodation for such religious beliefs unless it is demonstrated that such accommodation would place an undue hardship on its operation. It is recognized that the consciences of individuals vary in regard to the propriety of Sabbath employment. Neither the church nor its institutions can act as the conscience for its employees. Rather, reasonable accommodation should be made for individual conscience.

7. Resist pressures for relaxing Seventh-day Adventist standards. Some institutions have been pressured by the communities, the medical staffs, and/or the employees (where a majority is comprised of non-Adventists) to abandon or weaken Sabbathkeeping principles and practices so that the Sabbath would be treated as any other day. In some cases pressure has been applied to maintain full services on the Sabbath and reduce them on Sunday instead. Such action should be vigorously resisted. Compliance would cause serious reexamination of the relationship of such an institution to the church.

8. Educate employees who are not Seventh-day Adventists concerning Sabbathkeeping principles practiced by the institution. Every non-Adventist, at the time of employment at an Adventist health-care institution, should be made aware of Seventh-day Adventist principles, especially institutional policies regarding the observance of the Sabbath. Though non-Adventists may not believe as we do, they should know from the very beginning how they are expected to fit into the institutional program to help it reach its objectives.

9. Foster an attitude for continuing Christian witnessing by Adventist employees. The only contact that many non-Adventist workers may ever have with Seventh-day Adventist workers be in the institution employing them. Every relationship should be friendly, kind, and expressive of the love that exemplified the life and work of the Great Physician. Compassion for the sick, unselfish regard for our fellowmen, an eagerness to serve, and unstinted loyalty to God and the church may well prove to be a savor of life unto life. The keeping of the Sabbath is a privilege and an honor as well as a duty. It should never become burdensome or obnoxious to those who keep it or to those about us.


thanks the op could use this post
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
53,387
11,929
Georgia
✟1,098,277.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Hi, I am a SDA Christian missionary in an African country where security is necessary 7 days a week for any business or institution to survive. I avoid doing all regular work on Sabbath but I find that I have to hire security guards on the mission premises even on Sabbath. Recently it has been suggested to me that we should at least not hire SDA individuals to work a sabbath shift. In my opinion, whether I hire an SDA or a non SDA to work a sabbath shift of security, I am hiring people to work on Sabbath and in my opinion, they are supplying an essential service for the mission. And no, they aren't volunteering during sabbath hours. They are paid to stand guard.

What insights might be out there that can help me in this situation? Jason

There were temple guards in the OT on Sabbath and even the good kings had security at the gates on Sabbath. So I agree it is an essential service. But there is some Bible precedence for hiring non-Sabbath keepers to do those things that do not violate their conscience when possible. Still I don't think it would be wrong to hire Sabbath keepers for those essential services.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: 1 person
Upvote 0

SabbathBlessings

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 12, 2020
13,468
5,532
USA
✟712,527.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
I agree. Your ox IS truly in a ditch. There is nothing wrong with guards if they are necessary. And yes, there were temple guards.
Hi caecilius!

Welcome to CF! Nice to see another SDA on the forums. Just an FYI in case you missed it, we have a Traditional Adventist forum on this site as well….

Traditional Adventists

Hope to see you around. :)

Happy Sabbath!
 
Upvote 0