Sabbath and Law-Keepers - Gracious convo please!

[FreeAtLast]

Royal Law
Exodus 20King James Version (KJV)
20 And God spake all these words, saying,
2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
And on

Dietary Law
Leviticus 11 King James Version (KJV)
11 And the Lord spake unto Moses and to Aaron, saying unto them,
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, These are the beasts which ye shall eat among all the beasts that are on the earth.
And on

Civil Law (continuation from chapter 20 with the speaking)
Exodus 21King James Version (KJV)
21 Now these are the judgments which thou shalt set before them.
2 If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing.
And on

Sancuary Law
Exodus 25King James Version (KJV)
25 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring me an offering: of every man that giveth it willingly with his heart ye shall take my offering.
3 And this is the offering which ye shall take of them; gold, and silver, and brass,
4 And blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen, and goats' hair,
5 And rams' skins dyed red, and badgers' skins, and [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]tim wood,
6 Oil for the light, spices for anointing oil, and for sweet incense,
7 Onyx stones, and stones to be set in the ephod, and in the breastplate.
8 And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them.
9 According to all that I shew thee, after the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it. (pattern are of the heavenly sanctuary)

Matthew 4:4King James Version (KJV)
4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

I hope this answers your Question.

Your Brother in Christ
OHC

Thank you for the reply, but I don't see where the Bible divides the Law of Moses into these categories. Who decided there were divisions and what they are?

 

[listed]

Amazing how Jesus seems to leave out observing the Sabbath from his commandments, almost as if he wants the Gentiles who know nothing about it to be condemned. The one single commandment crucially important for salvation and nothing. Not a peep.

Naturally Jesus observed the Sabbath *before* he went to the cross. Jews (which included Jesus) were still under the Old Covenant until Jesus's death. The cross is when the New Covenant began...not beforehand.

One thing I would like explained is since the sabbath is so important, why is there no record of Jesus doing anything on the sabbath during His 40 days prior to the ascension. the only days mentioned are Sunday, the first day of the week.

 

[HARK!]

Hmmm, Can we stick to the Scriptures please I asked for GRACIOUS conversation, let please play nice.


(CLV) Hb 1:9
Thou lovest righteousness (kept THE LAW) and hatest injustice (disregard for THE LAW) ; Therefore Thou art anointed by The God, (tou theou) (YHWH), Thy God, with the oil of exultation beyond Thy partners."

Actually, you are adding words to the Scriptures that are not there and to WHOM is G-d speaking? To Yeshua, not us. And nothing about the Old Covenant Law of Moses. This entire chapter, please read it in context, is about the supremacy of Yeshua.

8 But of the Son he says,

“Your throne, O G-d, is forever and ever,
the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore G-d, your G-d, has anointed you
with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”

I don't have the time to do this with all the verses you quoted using the "CLV", but no one should add words to Scripture and for proper exegesis, they must be taken in context and applied correctly for proper understanding.

I didn't add words. (notice the parenthesis) I defined the words. Do you disagree with those definitions? If so, why?

The verse that you posted subtracts from what was written.

A direct translation the the Greek reads:

Toward yet the son the throne of YOU The God (ho theos) (YHWH)...

So much for context....

Now, if you stand by your assertion that God is speaking; please explain why he is speaking of himself in second person.

 

[HARK!]

One thing I would like explained is since the sabbath is so important, why is there no record of Jesus doing anything on the sabbath during His 40 days prior to the ascension. the only days mentioned are Sunday, the first day of the week.

Absence of evidence does not equate to evidence of absence.

Why would you present innuendo that Yahshua would start breaking YHWH's law, after YHWH resurrected him?


Be careful of lashon hara.

 

[FreeAtLast]

I didn't add words. (notice the parenthesis) I defined the words. Do you disagree with those definitions? If so, why?

Those words you added (defined) are NOT in the original, and your "definitions" tried to change the meaning of what is actually written. These verses have nothing to do with the Old Covenant Law of Moses. Adding your own words to what is written to make it sound like it means something else is not true Bible examination, it is biased.

The verse that you posted subtracts from what was written.

Nope exactly as written. How can the EXACT wording subtract anything from the EXACT wording of Scripture? I added nothing, I subtracted nothing.

So much for context....

Your sarcastic replies are not appreciated in this thread. I you cannot discuss graciously, please move along. Just be mature and like Messiah and discuss with grace. Can you do that? If not, I have no time for meanness.

Now, if you stand by your assertion that God is speaking; please explain why he is speaking of himself in second person.

Read it in CONTEXT. It's not my assertion (I did not add any words, they speak for themselves.) It says what it means. G-d, Abba, is speaking regarding Yeshua ha Mashach, the Son.

And Yes, G-d the Father, is speaking of G-d the Son. Elohim, Father, Son and Ruach haKodesh.

Do you deny that Yeshua is G-d, the 2nd Person of the Tri-unity known as Elohim?

Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given;
and the government shall be upond his shoulder,
and his name shall be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

 

[FreeAtLast]

Why would you present innuendo that Yahshua would start breaking YHWH's law, after YHWH resurrected him?

Yeshua completed the Old Covenant Law of Moses, therefore Yeshua is not "breaking" G-d's laws.
He fulfilled Jeremiah 31:31-34. Read Luke 22:20

Be careful of lashon hara.

Be careful of warning others of lashon hara when you are practicing it. There is nothing in the reply you quoted that even hints of lashon hara. Leave this all off the conversations please.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

2Cor3:7-11 stands on its own. It plainly states that the 10 are done away. We do not need to refer to other verses. Col 2 confirms that the weekly Sabbath in the 10 is but a shadow and the reality is Jesus. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand a shadow. And Matt5:16-17 can be proven to mean that the law indeed has been fulfilled, brought to an end. Add Gal 3 where Paul writes to the Galatians how foolish they are for observing the law and especially Gal 3:19 where Paul writes that the law WAS until Jesus.

Then add: 23 Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

Don't allow anyone to put you under the law.

We are all under the law but not under the condimnation of the law because of the Blood of Christ.

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

 

[FreeAtLast]

We are all under the law but not under the condimnation of the law because of the Blood of Christ.

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Shalom!

How can we be under the Old Covenant Law of Moses since Yeshua fulfilled it, completing it and then gave us His NEW Covenant?

What do you think of these Scriptures?
Acts
The law is an unbearable yoke. (Acts 15:10)

Romans
The law reveals sin but cannot fix it. (Romans 3:20)

If the law worked then faith would be irrelevant. (Romans 4:14)

The law brings wrath upon those who follow it. (Romans 4:15)

The purpose of the law was to increase sin. (Romans 5:20)

Christians are not under the law. (Romans 6:14)

Christians have been delivered from the law. (Romans 7:1-6)

The law is good, perfect and holy but cannot help you be good, perfect or holy. (Romans 7:7-12)

The law which promises life only brings death through sin. (Romans 7:10)

The law makes you sinful beyond measure. (Romans 7:13)

The law is weak. (Romans 8:2-3)

1 Corinthians
The strength of sin is the law (1 Corinthians 15:56)

2 Corinthians
The law is a ministry of death. (2 Corinthians 3:7)

The law is a ministry of condemnation. (2 Corinthians 3:9)

The law has no glory at all in comparison with the New Covenant. (2 Corinthians 3:10)

The law is fading away. (2 Corinthians 3:11)

Anywhere the law is preached it produces a mind-hardening and a heart-hardening veil. (2 Corinthians 3:14-15)

Galatians
The law justifies nobody. (Galatians 2:16)

Christians are dead to the law. (Galatians 2:19)

The law frustrates grace. (Galatians 2:21)

To go back to the law after embracing faith is “stupid”. (Galatians 3:1)

The law curses all who practice it and fail to do it perfectly. (Galatians 3:10)

The law has nothing to do with faith. (Galatians 3:11-12)

The law was a curse that Christ redeemed us from. (Galatians 3:13)

The law functioned in God’s purpose as a temporary covenant from Moses till John the Baptist announced Christ. (Galatians 3:16 & 19, also see… Matthew 11:12-13, Luke 16:16)

If the law worked God would have used it to save us. (Galatians 3:21)

The law was our prison. (Galatians 3:23)

The law makes you a slave like Hagar. (Galatians 4:24)

Ephesians
Christ has abolished the law which was a wall of hostility (Ephesians 2:15)

Philippians
Paul considered everything the law gained him as “skybalon” which is Greek for “poop”. (Philippians 3:4-8)

1 Timothy
The law is only good if used in the right context. (1 Timothy 1:8) (see next verse for the context)

It was made for the unrighteous but not for the righteous. (1 Timothy 1:9-10)

Hebrews
The law is weak, useless and makes nothing perfect. (Hebrews 7:18-19)

God has found fault with it and created a better covenant, enacted on better promises. (Hebrews 8:7-8)

It is obsolete, growing old and ready to vanish. (Hebrews 8:13)

It is only a shadow of good things to come and will never make someone perfect. (Hebrews 10:1)

 

[HARK!]

Yeshua completed the Old Covenant Law of Moses, therefore Yeshua is not "breaking" G-d's laws.
He fulfilled Jeremiah 31:31-34. Read Luke 22:20

Nothing there about YHWH's Law being demolished, nor about heaven nor earth passing away.

(CLV) Mt 5:17
"You should not infer that I came to demolish THE LAW or the prophets. I came not to demolish, but to fulfill.

(CLV) Mt 5:18
For verily, I am saying to you, Till heaven and earth should be passing by, one iota or one serif may by no means be passing by from THE LAW till all should be occurring.

(CLV) Mt 5:19
"Whosoever, then, should be annulling one of the least of these precepts, and should be teaching men thus, the least in the kingdom of the heavens shall he be called. Yet whoever should be doing and teaching them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of the heavens.

(CLV) Lk 16:17
Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of THE LAW to fall.

 

[HARK!]

Philippians
Paul considered everything the law gained him as “skybalon” which is Greek for “poop”. (Philippians 3:4-8)

(CLV) Mt 5:17
"You should not infer that I came to demolish THE LAW or the prophets. I came not to demolish, but to fulfill.

(CLV) Mt 5:18
For verily, I am saying to you, Till heaven and earth should be passing by, one iota or one serif may by no means be passing by from THE LAW till all should be occurring.

(CLV) Mt 5:19
"Whosoever, then, should be annulling one of the least of these precepts, and should be teaching men thus, the least in the kingdom of the heavens shall he be called. Yet whoever should be doing and teaching them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of the heavens.

(CLV) Lk 16:17
Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of THE LAW to fall.

Does Paul make you question Yahshua? If so, who will you follow, Paul, or Yahshua?

I didn't have time to address each and every one of these verses. This one should suffice.

 

[FreeAtLast]

Nothing there about YHWH's Law being demolished, nor about heaven nor earth passing away.

Because it does not apply. Taken in context, that verse in Matthew says that "til all is fulfilled" which Yeshua did, He fulfilled it.

(CLV) Mt 5:17

"You should not infer that I came to demolish THE LAW or the prophets. I came not to demolish, but to fulfill.

Exactly correct, although your version is not an accurate one. Yeshua said that He did not come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. He did not. They stand, as is, for our learning. However, according to those Scriptures I posted, since the Old Covenant Law of Moses AND the MESSIANC PROPHECIES are fulfilled, by Him and thus completed, they are not more requirements of either,. They are complete.

(CLV) Mt 5:18

For verily, I am saying to you, Till heaven and earth should be passing by, one iota or one serif may by no means be passing by from THE LAW till all should be occurring.

See my answer above

(CLV) Mt 5:19

"Whosoever, then, should be annulling one of the least of these precepts, and should be teaching men thus, the least in the kingdom of the heavens shall he be called. Yet whoever should be doing and teaching them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of the heavens.

IN CONTEXT, again, these words come after Yeshua gives us His NEW commands during the Sermon on the Mount. It is THESE precepts He is referring to, not the ones He just said that He FULFILLED (completed).

 

[FreeAtLast]

(CLV) Mt 5:17
"You should not infer that I came to demolish THE LAW or the prophets. I came not to demolish, but to fulfill.

I answered these same questions where you asked them already three times. I saw it and answered it. No need to ask again.

Does Paul make you question Yahshua? If so, who will you follow, Paul, or Yahshua?

Nope. Paul's words are Scripture and therefore G-d's Words ( 2 Timothy 3:16) and I follow G-d's Word in its entirety. There is no conflict between Yeshua's teaching and Paul's if you understand the Scriptures correctly.

 

[HARK!]

Because it does not apply. Taken in context, that verse in Matthew says that "til all is fulfilled" which Yeshua did, He fulfilled it.

Yahshua has not fulfilled all. He fulfilled the Spring feasts. The Fall feast are still to come.

Riddle me this:

If all had been fulfilled; why did Yashua's Apostles continue in obedience to the Law, after Yahshua had ascended?

...and, you're still left with this:

(CLV) Lk 16:17
Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of THE LAW to fall.

Again, not heaven nor earth have passed.

 

[HARK!]

Nope. Paul's words are Scripture and therefore G-d's Words ( 2 Timothy 3:16) and I follow G-d's Word in its entirety. There is no conflict between Yeshua's teaching and Paul's if you understand the Scriptures correctly.

Nope. At the time that was written, there was no collection of books called the New Testament. He was referring to the Torah. (LAW included) I at least understand that much correctly.

 

[FreeAtLast]

Yahshua has not fulfilled all. He fulfilled the Spring feasts. The Fall feast are still to come.

Yeshua has fulfilled ALL of the Old Covenant Law of Moses. There is not ONE left to complete. That's why HE proved He is Mashiach.

Riddle me this:
If all had been fulfilled; why did Yashua's Apostles continue in obedience to the Law, after Yahshua had ascended?

Show me where, clearly, that is the case and the time frame. From Scripture, with nothing added please. BTW, just being in the Temple, or saying "a Sabbath's walk" does not show they were adhering to the Law of Moses.

(CLV) Lk 16:17
Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of THE LAW to fall.

Asked and answered Please go and read my reply.

BTW, you have not addressed the important things I asked YOU. How about it? Do you deny that Yeshua is G-d?

 

[FreeAtLast]

Nope. At the time that was written, there was no collection of books called the New Testament. He was referring to the Torah. (LAW included) I at least understand that much correctly.

Nope. Yeshua gave us His commands while He still lived. Read His Words. he was referring to His NEW Covenant that would be ushered in at His death, by His blood, thus fulfilling the entire Old Covenant Law of Moses. Read Jeremiah 31:31-34, Matthew 5 and Luke 22:20.

This is proven by the NEW Covenant prophesied by Jeremiah which G-d reads:
31 “Behold, the days are coming, declares the L-rd, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the L-rd. 33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the L-rd: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their G-d, and they shall be my people. 34 And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the L-rd,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the L-rd. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

G-d the Father stated clearly that this NEW Covenant, is not like the Old Covenant Law of Moses. So, it could not be the Law of Moses.

After those days, refers to when Yeshua makes this NEW Covenant. (Luke 22:20)

When G-d forgives our sin (only through Yeshua's blood)
Writes Yeshua's New Covenant commands on our heart (only through the Ruach haKodesh)
then we will be His people.

It was not possible under the Law of Moses (read those verses I posted in a previous comment) that is why Yeshua had to come and die. The Law of Moses never saved anyone, that's why G-d sent Yeshua ha Mashiach.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Please refer to the OP, where it was said worshiping on Sunday is a sin, it breaks G-d's commandments and honors Satan.

So, if the questions doesn't apply to you, thanks for stopping by, have a great day!

I did? I took your advice, read the op and said I see the misunderstanding..no problem.

Apply to me? I think I met your criteria, and again, I think most know we can worship any day of the week and if someone says we cannot, not the type thing I'd be concerned about, but that's just me.

Hope you get the advice you need here to help you confirm that person/persons who says such a silly/unbublical thing, are wrong.

 

[bekkilyn]

Absolutely, with scripture in post # 68 (linked) but seems the post has been ignored or you have missed the post. Please take another look and tell me how post # 68 does not address your earlier one. I don't mind helping you with it if your having difficulty understanding the scriptures. Just let me know.

I see you have not bothered answering the questions there either? Answering those questions also answers yours. Maybe you did not like the questions and the answers they provide? I am not sure. Please tell me how post # 68 does not answer your earlier post and I will tell you how it does. Let me know if you need some help with the scriptures?

Post #68 did not address anything about observing the Sabbath in Matthew 5:17-19 specifically. Jesus was speaking about the *entire* Mosaic law that he fulfilled on the cross, and then he went on to provide details on *his* commandments in his Sermon on the Mount, which included not one iota of a mention of observing the Sabbath. Considering how the claim is that observing a Saturday Sabbath is *the* only way into heaven, it is curiously left out of Jesus's teachings and not emphasized at all in any of the epistles of other writings in the New Testament.

You are assuming that Jesus's commandments are the same as the ten commandments of the Old Covenant. You are assuming that every time someone in the New Testament mentions the words "commandments" that they are writing about the ten commandments of Mosaic law rather than Jesus's commandments. Whenever the word "law" is mentioned, you are assuming a division between ten commandments (moral) vs. ceremonial law, and choosing which one best fits your interpretation, rather than acknowledging the Mosaic law as a whole. This is part of what is causing this disconnect on this Sabbath issue.

It's not that people are having trouble with the scripture, but are simply rejecting your particular interpretation of scripture and path to salvation. (Note when I say "you", it's not really intended to be personal, but more about the point of view of where you're coming from.)

 

[FreeAtLast]

I did? I took your advice, read the op and said I see the misunderstanding..no problem.

Apply to me? I think I met your criteria, and again, I think most know we can worship any day of the week and if someone says we cannot, not the type thing I'd be concerned about, but that's just me.

Hope you get the advice you need here to help you confirm that person/persons who says such a silly/unbublical thing, are wrong.

Thank you, much appreciated.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Thank you for the reply, but I don't see where the Bible divides the Law of Moses into these categories. Who decided there were divisions and what they are?

To answer you question I do not know other than they are four distinct issues not a continuation of one issue. Royal, Diet, Civil and Sanctuary.

If I am correct you seperate the Royal law from the other three. So please explain why you do not seperate the other three issues from each other.

Remember that the table of stones were placed in the Ark of The Covenant below the mercy seat that was in the earthly sanctuary and is in the Heaven Sanctuary (see above post about pattern)
The other three laws were placed on the side of the Ark in the Holy of Holies.
God seperated the first from the other three.
Also the Point is GOD spoke them