Russian priests may be defrocked.

Lukaris

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Three hundred Russian Orthodox priests who originally opposed the Ukraine war now face probable defrockment.


THERE ARE THREE HUNDRED PRIESTS ON THE LIST FOR DEVOTIONATION

The editors of the Holy Fire website yesterday, February 8, took the initiative to defrock all the priests who signed in March 2022 an appeal calling for reconciliation and an end to the war.

The editors refer to the fact that "in the history of our Church there was a canonical ban against the clergy who supported the Nazi occupation of our Motherland during the Great Patriotic War."

“We ask the hierarchies of the Russian Orthodox Church to consider the issue of defrocking all the signatories of the vile and treacherous appeal of liberal clergy towards our Motherland and the Russian army, for this appeal is a knife in the back of the Russian soldier who is liberating the world from Nazism, as our fathers heroically did, grandfathers and great-grandfathers during the Great Patriotic War. In essence, this appeal is a call for Russia's surrender to the West."


I found myself in the list at 77th place. Curiously, I always considered seven my lucky number (there are three of them in my date of birth).

Another observation: approximately three hundred priests serve in the Kostroma Metropolis. An interesting idea: with one stroke of the pen to deprive the priesthood of two dioceses at once - Kostroma and Galich. Very deep!

However, nothing tragic: seminaries are "still giving birth"



Lord, have mercy.


 

archer75

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Three hundred Russian Orthodox priests who originally opposed the Ukraine war now face probable defrockment.


THERE ARE THREE HUNDRED PRIESTS ON THE LIST FOR DEVOTIONATION

The editors of the Holy Fire website yesterday, February 8, took the initiative to defrock all the priests who signed in March 2022 an appeal calling for reconciliation and an end to the war.

The editors refer to the fact that "in the history of our Church there was a canonical ban against the clergy who supported the Nazi occupation of our Motherland during the Great Patriotic War."

“We ask the hierarchies of the Russian Orthodox Church to consider the issue of defrocking all the signatories of the vile and treacherous appeal of liberal clergy towards our Motherland and the Russian army, for this appeal is a knife in the back of the Russian soldier who is liberating the world from Nazism, as our fathers heroically did, grandfathers and great-grandfathers during the Great Patriotic War. In essence, this appeal is a call for Russia's surrender to the West."


I found myself in the list at 77th place. Curiously, I always considered seven my lucky number (there are three of them in my date of birth).

Another observation: approximately three hundred priests serve in the Kostroma Metropolis. An interesting idea: with one stroke of the pen to deprive the priesthood of two dioceses at once - Kostroma and Galich. Very deep!

However, nothing tragic: seminaries are "still giving birth"



Lord, have mercy.


Not for me to say, but I won't be surprised if some of those reading this live to see some of the priests on this list glorified as confessors or martyrs.

May the Lord remember all these, His servants, in His kingdom!
 
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rusmeister

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I can’t find the words to express how deeply this grieves me and attacks my faith in the Church. These days it seems I have to get along mostly without the Church. Yes, we attend services most weeks at a parish where we can barely talk to anyone, where I don’t even understand 20% of the homilies, etc. But any sense of real communion in a normal parish life, what I had until little over a year ago, is gone.
 
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archer75

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I can’t find the words to express how deeply this grieves me and attacks my faith in the Church. These days it seems I have to get along mostly without the Church. Yes, we attend services most weeks at a parish where we can barely talk to anyone, where I don’t even understand 20% of the homilies, etc. But any sense of real communion in a normal parish life, what I had until little over a year ago, is gone.
Not making light of your situation or anyone's here, but think of what they did to St. Maximus the Confessor. And we had iconoclasm for more than a while, too. [Edit: what I mean is that the Church has survived some insane stuff before, although no, not to my knowledge has still specific set of things ever happened.]

But, yes, it is indeed grievous that a puppet publication is calling for the laicization of priests specifically for preaching the truth.

If such a laicization were forced on these priests, though, I think it could eventually be overturned (since the charges are unrelated to reality). That's how it works, right? Voluntary laicization can't be reversed, but if they remove your clerical rank against your will, you can be restored if you later are shown to be innocent?
 
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prodromos

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Three hundred Russian Orthodox priests who originally opposed the Ukraine war now face probable defrockment.


THERE ARE THREE HUNDRED PRIESTS ON THE LIST FOR DEVOTIONATION

The editors of the Holy Fire website yesterday, February 8, took the initiative to defrock all the priests who signed in March 2022 an appeal calling for reconciliation and an end to the war.

The editors refer to the fact that "in the history of our Church there was a canonical ban against the clergy who supported the Nazi occupation of our Motherland during the Great Patriotic War."

“We ask the hierarchies of the Russian Orthodox Church to consider the issue of defrocking all the signatories of the vile and treacherous appeal of liberal clergy towards our Motherland and the Russian army, for this appeal is a knife in the back of the Russian soldier who is liberating the world from Nazism, as our fathers heroically did, grandfathers and great-grandfathers during the Great Patriotic War. In essence, this appeal is a call for Russia's surrender to the West."


I found myself in the list at 77th place. Curiously, I always considered seven my lucky number (there are three of them in my date of birth).

Another observation: approximately three hundred priests serve in the Kostroma Metropolis. An interesting idea: with one stroke of the pen to deprive the priesthood of two dioceses at once - Kostroma and Galich. Very deep!

However, nothing tragic: seminaries are "still giving birth"



Lord, have mercy.


So the editors of a website in Russia are calling on the Church hierarchy to defrock the signatories. Do these editors have a history of successfully directing the Church hierarchy? How much influence do they have?
 
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ArmyMatt

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I can’t find the words to express how deeply this grieves me and attacks my faith in the Church. These days it seems I have to get along mostly without the Church. Yes, we attend services most weeks at a parish where we can barely talk to anyone, where I don’t even understand 20% of the homilies, etc. But any sense of real communion in a normal parish life, what I had until little over a year ago, is gone.
prayers for you, rus! stay strong!
 
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archer75

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I have seen this site before, but it's been a long time. I never see any other more popular and reputable sites referring to it. I could be wrong, but in my experience it's an insignificant site.
It is trivial in that way, but it has been on the destroy Ukraine bandwagon for many years. If you read the "about the site" stuff, you will see that they say their "ideology" is "Orthodox realism" (undefined) -- since when do the Orthodox need or tolerate ideologies?

There's zip Christian about the site, it is pure paranoia and anger, and, for the last year, warmongering. It attacks any Orthodox who aren't Russian nationalists, as if the Church at Pentecost was supposed to cool her heels for a thousand years until Rus got baptized to be the "real" Church.

I understand your statement. But the site is 100% in line with the insane, totally unOrthodox, war-promoting, Stalin-and-Dzerzhinsky worshipping, state ideology today. That these people published this list almost certainly means they were told to.

It was the same in Soviet times. "Someone" would publish an "editorial" to bring up the right topic, and then...
 
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rusmeister

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Since I know as a fact that the priests in my area were actually punished by a hierarchy that supports what the people running this website are calling for, I have to say that whether that site is directly influential or not, that idea has very strong influence in the Russian hierarchy.

One of my great challenges is trying to forgive a certain person, a man who became a priest recently, who was instrumental in that, and in participating in producing the climate that made us feel forced to leave. Now we get to hear politicians calling for the confiscation of the property of people who left the country. So yes, the idea of punishing people who think the war is bad and that peace is a good idea is very prevalent. And you all know that I defended Russia pretty solidly until last year. Now I can’t defend anybody. All sides are doing evil. And I’m a refugee in a strange land after having committed my whole life to Russia, trying to just barely make the rent.
 
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Since I know as a fact that the priests in my area were actually punished by a hierarchy that supports what the people running this website are calling for, I have to say that whether that site is directly influential or not, that idea has very strong influence in the Russian hierarchy.

One of my great challenges is trying to forgive a certain person, a man who became a priest recently, who was instrumental in that, and in participating in producing the climate that made us feel forced to leave. Now we get to hear politicians calling for the confiscation of the property of people who left the country. So yes, the idea of punishing people who think the war is bad and that peace is a good idea is very prevalent. And you all know that I defended Russia pretty solidly until last year. Now I can’t defend anybody. All sides are doing evil. And I’m a refugee in a strange land after having committed my whole life to Russia, trying to just barely make the rent.
Keep your faith in the true Church; which is not comprised by those supporting either war, or peace, but rather, only in a small remnant who know what times these are and are preparing for what's very shortly coming to pass. This preparation is strictly spiritual.
 
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Not for me to say, but I won't be surprised if some of those reading this live to see some of the priests on this list glorified as confessors or martyrs.

May the Lord remember all these, His servants, in His kingdom!
You must have some impression that life in this world will be going on as usual after this, with a continuation of history? Most of the saints of the last two or three centuries did not. Many times, people call for peace not because they are worthy of glorification, but because of fear. Some of these priests may be worthy of glorification indeed, others perhaps not.

My point is that the saints have already told us that these military conflicts would be happening. They weren't bothered by this. They were bothered about the state of people's souls during these times. They knew that the wars and the great war soon to follow were nearly inevitable. So, they called not for peace, but for repentance. If the repentance was to happen, then these terrible things which are soon to come to pass will be put off a little while longer. If not (and it will probably be "not"), then the end of time is here. The saints (martyrs and confessors) eagerly await it. They don't fear it (Revelation 6:10).

May the Lord make us worthy to be among them.
 
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archer75

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You must have some impression that life in this world will be going on as usual after this, with a continuation of history? Most of the saints of the last two or three centuries did not. Many times, people call for peace not because they are worthy of glorification, but because of fear. Some of these priests may be worthy of glorification indeed, others perhaps not.
I don't know when the end is coming, neither am I expert in interpreting the predictions of saints. So yes, I do imagine some sort of tomorrow. If tomorrow comes, well, at least I will have prepared for it in some small way. If it doesn't, I will have much bigger problems.

I did not mean to suggest that simply "calling for peace" means one is a saint or that one can or will be glorified by the Church, or that any given statement reveals the heart of the person who made the statement. However, knowing what I know about how many organizations work in Russia, I know without any doubt that these men (whether they "called for peace," simply said the invasion was wrong, or whatever exactly they said or did) knew consciously that parroting the Party line would get them promotion or material benefit, and that speaking the truth about sin for the spiritual benefit of their flock would (very likely) get them some kind of punishment: laicization, transfer to an undesirable location, imprisonment, physical harm or rape of their family members, or even death.

There is no question about it: with the possible exception of those clergy on the list who are not culturally Russian, not from Russia, may not even speak Russian, they all knew they were risking their necks by preaching the truth about sin. And they did it anyway. We don't know what will happen to them, and they need our prayers.

It is pretty much fact that they all (or the vast majority on the list) had a conscious choice: betray Christ or risk their lives. That they're on the list means they chose to serve Christ even at serious risk to themselves. May God grant us all such faith.
 
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I don't know when the end is coming, neither am I expert in interpreting the predictions of saints. So yes, I do imagine some sort of tomorrow. If tomorrow comes, well, at least I will have prepared for it in some small way. If it doesn't, I will have much bigger problems.

I did not mean to suggest that simply "calling for peace" means one is a saint or that one can or will be glorified by the Church, or that any given statement reveals the heart of the person who made the statement. However, knowing what I know about how many organizations work in Russia, I know without any doubt that these men (whether they "called for peace," simply said the invasion was wrong, or whatever exactly they said or did) knew consciously that parroting the Party line would get them promotion or material benefit, and that speaking the truth about sin for the spiritual benefit of their flock would (very likely) get them some kind of punishment: laicization, transfer to an undesirable location, imprisonment, physical harm or rape of their family members, or even death.

There is no question about it: with the possible exception of those clergy on the list who are not culturally Russian, not from Russia, may not even speak Russian, they all knew they were risking their necks by preaching the truth about sin. And they did it anyway. We don't know what will happen to them, and they need our prayers.

It is pretty much fact that they all (or the vast majority on the list) had a conscious choice: betray Christ or risk their lives. That they're on the list means they chose to serve Christ even at serious risk to themselves. May God grant us all such faith.
To preach the truth about sin is not the same as taking a stance on weather a military action by a people is correct or incorrect. There's only one war that we need to be engaged in, and it's waged only inside of the arena of our hearts, and unseen by others. The other wars will happen regardless of what men say or do. An Orthodox Christian is not required to take a particular side, especially when all sides are being driven by demons.
 
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ArmyMatt

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Keep your faith in the true Church; which is not comprised by those supporting either war, or peace, but rather, only in a small remnant who know what times these are and are preparing for what's very shortly coming to pass. This preparation is strictly spiritual.
amen
 
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archer75

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To preach the truth about sin is not the same as taking a stance on weather a military action by a people is correct or incorrect. There's only one war that we need to be engaged in, and it's waged only inside of the arena of our hearts, and unseen by others. The other wars will happen regardless of what men say or do. An Orthodox Christian is not required to take a particular side, especially when all sides are being driven by demons.
Murder is sin, rape is sin, trying to erase a people from the face of the earth is sin, using secular power to trick or force people into going along with and supporting sin is sin.

Orthodox clergy are obligated to guide those under their care to turn away from sin, not to engage in it ever more deeply and worship its visible form as an idol.

Clergy who have chosen to serve Christ by trying to guide their flocks to seeing the truth of sin are aiding their flocks in exactly the war you mention: the one inside their hearts.

Now, it certainly may be that plenty of other Orthodox clergy are ALSO serving Christ at this time in some way that is not so public or is even invisible to all humans. My saying that some of these on the list may someday be known as confessors or martyrs doesn't mean that I think ONLY they are serving Christ. Only that they have chosen to do so in this instance, and because of the circumstances, that service is not so hidden.

Edit: If it weren't so, it would be inappropriate for clergy even to speak the truth about abortion or any of the other sins that are approved by this or that government.
 
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Murder is sin, rape is sin, trying to erase a people from the face of the earth is sin, using secular power to trick or force people into going along with and supporting sin is sin.

Orthodox clergy are obligated to guide those under their care to turn away from sin, not to engage in it ever more deeply and worship its visible form as an idol.

Clergy who have chosen to serve Christ by trying to guide their flocks to seeing the truth of sin are aiding their flocks in exactly the war you mention: the one inside their hearts.

Now, it certainly may be that plenty of other Orthodox clergy are ALSO serving Christ at this time in some way that is not so public or is even invisible to all humans. My saying that some of these on the list may someday be known as confessors or martyrs doesn't mean that I think ONLY they are serving Christ. Only that they have chosen to do so in this instance, and because of the circumstances, that service is not so hidden.
The clergy who are preaching against a military action are doing just that: preaching against a military action. Anyone can do that, even if they have not Christ abiding in them. If trying to erase a people from the face of the earth is a sin, then why did God do it in Noah's time and why did God order the Israelites to do it to the Canaanites? I agree that murder and rape are sins, and these ought not be happening. War, however, is war. It is a military action that has been waged by great saints. My patron saint, David, being very notably among them. But the fourth Chapter of James is a good place to begin looking for right answers about these things. What we see is a lot of people making sweeping generalizations condemning, automatically, any military invasion as an evil act, when it's not necessarily the case.
 
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