Routine Vs No routines...

[Called2Grace]

I am due to have my second child in three months. And I am considering the pros and cons of routine as opposed to no routine.

I have bought the book "Save our sleep" by tizzie hall, and she has many routines (similar to the contented little baby book) which basically is like
7am - wake and feed
8:15 - back in bed
10am - wake and feed

etc

It gets faily strict about which breast to feed from (in relation to breast feeding) and how long to feed for, and also encourages expressing to keep up milk supply. It includes the expressing on the schedule too.

Then I have also read the secrets of the babywhisperer.
Which basically talks about more flexible routines, such as the eat, play, sleep routine where the time in between each is based on the cues from the baby, so some days you might have an hour between waking and going back to sleep, and other times, it might be n hour and a half.

I'm a bit conflicted, and am thinking I might just see how it goes first, going with the flow and what not. But I am also interested in atachment parenting as well. But I don't really know that much about it. So if anyone has any book or website suggestions, that would be great!!

I'd just love to hear from people who have experienced either routine or going with the flow and what you feel are the pros and cons of each.

 

[JulySheMustFly]

If you are planning to breastfeed let the baby set the schedule especially if you would like to go a little more on the AP course.

I am a go with the flow kind of parent by choice with infants but have learned that once they get past that first year a schedule of sorts (at least for my children) is needed to preserve a general sense of peace in my home. I'm the grown up I can make the sacrifice and before I know it they'll be out of our house and I can return to my spur of the moment preferences. A benefit imo with allowing the child to set their feeding and sleeping routine allowed me to really get to know the preferences of my child and when they were naturally more ready to go out and about or when they needed to be home and within familiar surroundings without making them adhere to my ideas of what I wanted everyone to do.

 

[Neenie1]

That first routine you mention may not work if you have children that you need to take to school, so that is something to think about.

I know it definitely wouldn't work in our house.

From birth dd sort of worked her way around our routine, we already had an established routine with my ds who at the time was attending play groups, story times etc. (he was 3 1/2) so she learned to fall asleep in the pram. I was breastfeeding, so she learned to take her milk wherever we were at the time. She was a happy baby from day 1. (we haven't had much fun in the toddler years though lol)

On our days at home we loosely followed feed play sleep, but it never really seemed to work.

I am not really the kind of person that would be happy with a strict routine that I had to stay at home most of the time to make sure I keep the routine. It's not me.

 

[~Mrs. A2J~]

I didn't establish a routine for my second - he kinda made a very loose one of his own and worked it in around us. He would fall asleep at similar times and want to feed at similar times but basically did it wherever we were. With having and older child and living far from town there's no way a strict routine would have worked for us - especially if I had needed to stay home in order to accomplish it.

 

[christianmomof3]

I am not a fan of routines although I have heard they work for some people. Here are some good ap sites: http://www.gentlechristianmothers.com/topics/
http://www.mothering.com/
http://www.mothering.com/discussions/index.php?

 

[coffeegal]

one thing that raises a red flag for me in the first schedule you mentioned was the fact that she says to pump to keep up supply. that to me anyway is an admitting that this schedule may limit supply.

i've seen a lot of parents put their children on strict schedules and it seems to me that it is the parent on the schedule. they have to make sure they are at home at a certain time so that their baby can sleep.

most of my babies have been spring babies. spring in my house = baseball. my oldest plays from april to august (than turns around and plays sept and oct fall ball) so i need my babies to be able to sleep where ever we are and to eat where ever we are. so for our home strict schedules do not work.

if you are planning on nursing- remember it is supply and demand. your body will only make what the baby is using. pumping can help, but a pump can never get the milk as well as a baby.

 

[coffeegal]

if the issue is sleep- have you considered or ever tried to co- sleep? i know that i get much more sleep co-sleeping than i did when my babies where in a crib and i had to get up nurse them and than put them back in their beds.

 

[Called2Grace]

Thanks for the links!

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

I am due to have my second child in three months. And I am considering the pros and cons of routine as opposed to no routine.

I have bought the book "Save our sleep" by tizzie hall, and she has many routines (similar to the contented little baby book) which basically is like
7am - wake and feed
8:15 - back in bed
10am - wake and feed

etc

It gets faily strict about which breast to feed from (in relation to breast feeding) and how long to feed for, and also encourages expressing to keep up milk supply. It includes the expressing on the schedule too.

Then I have also read the secrets of the babywhisperer.
Which basically talks about more flexible routines, such as the eat, play, sleep routine where the time in between each is based on the cues from the baby, so some days you might have an hour between waking and going back to sleep, and other times, it might be n hour and a half.

I'm a bit conflicted, and am thinking I might just see how it goes first, going with the flow and what not. But I am also interested in atachment parenting as well. But I don't really know that much about it. So if anyone has any book or website suggestions, that would be great!!

I'd just love to hear from people who have experienced either routine or going with the flow and what you feel are the pros and cons of each.

That Tizzie woman sounds kinda psycho....

You CANNOT use someone else's idea of a routine. You have to look at your life and develop your ritual so that it reflects your life. I think routines/rituals/schedules are enormously helpful to moms!!!!! However- I think it is better to have a list of events, rather than what times they occur. Have a few times- like lunch around noon and dinner around 5:00...but timing out the rest does nothing but make you stressed and a slave to your schedule---which is supposed to be serving you!! Don't be afraid to change your schedule if it's not working or if you need to rearrange--and certainly don't let some author (who doesn't know you) impose her idea of a schedule on your lives. Take what is useful from the book and leave the rest of it.

A VERY, VERY important note: If you plan on breastfeeding-please,feed on cue. Scheduling nursing so, so often leads to a decreased milk supply. Baby's first six months in just filled with growth spurts and babies often will cluster feed in the evening to prepare for a longer stretch of sleep at night. There is no reason a mom should have to pump, unless she has to be away from baby for work.

As far as AP guidance- see if you can get your hands on The Baby Book by Dr. Sears. Antoher great resource for info in the LLL website! http://www.llli.org/ Grabbin a copy of The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding might be another resources for you to pull ideas from.

 

[Leanna]

Routines are natural to me and I tend to do a lot of things automatically. There are many benefits including better sleep in my experience.

I have bought the book "Save our sleep" by tizzie hall, and she has many routines (similar to the contented little baby book) which basically is like
7am - wake and feed
8:15 - back in bed
10am - wake and feed

etc

It gets faily strict about which breast to feed from (in relation to breast feeding) and how long to feed for, and also encourages expressing to keep up milk supply. It includes the expressing on the schedule too.

This won't work and isn't natural. Each baby eats at a different rate. What is important is that the baby eats a full meal, not how long it takes to get a full meal. Each baby also has a different spacing between meals.

Then I have also read the secrets of the babywhisperer.
Which basically talks about more flexible routines, such as the eat, play, sleep routine where the time in between each is based on the cues from the baby, so some days you might have an hour between waking and going back to sleep, and other times, it might be n hour and a half.

This makes more sense to me but I haven't read this.

 

[HeyHomie]

Some friends of me and Mrs. Homie live and die by the schedule. Their children are managed according to strict schedules from which they NEVER vary.

Like, breakfast is served at 7:00. NOT at 7:01 and NOT at 6:59. According to my friend, if the routine changes, the kids are shot for the day.

And Monday is French toast day. NOT cereal day and NOT pancake day. If pancakes are served on Monday, according to my friend his kids are shot for the day.

I don't see it, but whatever.

 

[MyaShane]

Some friends of me and Mrs. Homie live and die by the schedule. Their children are managed according to strict schedules from which they NEVER vary.

Like, breakfast is served at 7:00. NOT at 7:01 and NOT at 6:59. According to my friend, if the routine changes, the kids are shot for the day.

And Monday is French toast day. NOT cereal day and NOT pancake day. If pancakes are served on Monday, according to my friend his kids are shot for the day.

I don't see it, but whatever.

Wow I could not live like that! To me it seems like the schedules in that family are more for the parents, not their children. My kids love some spotenaeity and they like to get a say in some of the choices we make as a family! I could see the "kids being shot for the day" if say bedtime is 8pm, but we're out later than expected and they don't get to bed until 9:30 and then they're affected, but that the kids would be so thrown off by 5 minutes in a routine or getting corn flakes instead of a pancake? I can't see that, and I don't know that I buy it.

 

[Linnis]

I could not survive without a routine. I think some people confuse 'routine' with a rigid schedule which isn't the case in this house. DS has a basic routine but the time can change, like whether he goes to bed at 8 or 8:30 we still have milk, meds, baths, stories and bed.

Kids I know on a strict schedule cannot vary from that or they can't handle it. I can't handle that because what if we decide to go to a family BBQ and come home and bedtime is pushed back half an hour.

We have also seen good things come from a predictable routine including better night time sleep and nap time.

 

[Called2Grace]

Everyone has posted a lot of good points here. I think that, for the first few months at least I will just go with the flow and let little Jack decide in terms of breastfeeding. I didn't manage it last time with DD, and I really wished that I had. So to make sure that I have the best start for breastfeeding, I think I will feed as often as he likes, at least initially.

I have a book by Dr Sears, it is called nighttime parenting, and I have been reading it (I'm not that far into it though! Just found it last night!!).

I have a sling and would like to wear him pretty much as much as I can, and I also have this thing called "my little bed" which I can have in bed with me, it will give Jack a bit of his own space, if needed. We also have a bassinet next to the bed, so I have a few options, depending on what everyone wants!

I will look at getting that book on breastfeeding from the library, I need something which will help me with breastfeeding, and maybe suggest different positions for feeding.

I also have a bed rail thing which we initially bought for DD when she went into a big girl bed, so I was also thinking of having that on the side too just to make sure we don't fall out of bed. We have a queen size, can't afford to get a bigger bed at this stage though, so it will have to do!

Then, once he gets bigger, like 6 months or older then if we need to look into a routine, we can do it then.

I do like the idea of feed play sleep, and I think if I do go with a routine, it will be something like that (eventually).

I have been reading more of the Tizzie Hall book and it talks about the baby "self soothing" or "self settling" right from the word go! And even just reading that makes my stomach turn...I want to nurse my baby to sleep, is that really such a bad thing? Why would I want to miss out on that?? I suppose it is to prevent having to nurse to sleep hundreds of times through the night.....

They are only babies for such a short period of time, and there are a lot of things that I did or didn't do with DD that I wished I had done differently. And fortunately, I won't have to "go back" to anything other than uni (Which I guess is the same as "work" as I will be on placement) until Jack will be 12 months old. Even if I have to work, it will be in our home business, and since I will be breastfeeding, he will have to be with me all the time anyway.

Is it wrong, that I am happy about the fact that if I am breastfeeding, he will rely soley on me and no one else? I just feel like there is so much I missed out on with DD by handing her over to someone else. It felt like there wasn't any difference between me as "mummy" and my MIL as "nanny" which really made me sad!

Anyway I think I'm getting ahead of myself.

 

[lucypevensie]

I could not survive without some kind of schedule. It does not have to be rigid. If the baby's hungry before the 3 hours (or whatever) is up, by all means, feed it! The schedule was helpful for me because it helped clue me in to what baby might be fussing about - getting close to mealtime, getting tired, etc... My son was a very fussy baby and until I got him on a flexible schedule I was pulling out my hair wondering what the heck he wanted! I also learned that he really DIDN'T want to nurse as often as I'd thought he wanted to.

The schedule saved my sanity and perhaps my son's well-being as well.

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

I am excited for you!! I think it is awesome that you feel that way about breastfeeding...many women feel overwhelmed by that thougght.

I think even with a new baby you can develop a rhythm to your day, which will be of great use to Susan as well. In fact if you can develop a bit of a rhythm to your day before baby-it might help Susan transition. But again something like: wake up, have breakfast, clean table (Susan helps), craft time, outside play, TV time-- lunchtime, booktime, naptime...etc.

In there- just nurse babe whenever he's hungry..and of that scheduleisn't working because say craft time coincides with a nurse a thon everyday--switch TV time and craft time.

Part of the challenge of the first few weeks is precisely the one of "organising" baby--that task is made simpler if you have a pretty good rhythm to your day.

Can I urge you to make it a quest to learn how to nurse lying on your side--to me that is the single most important tool in making breastfeeding work LOL!

Your sleeping arrangements sound great--and leaves you with lots of options to decide what's working best--remember not to put guilt upon yourself for whatever choices you make--the right choice is where everyone gets the most sleep-at least in my opinion.

ooohhh I can't wait for you to have your baby!!

 

[HeyHomie]

what if we decide to go to a family BBQ and come home and bedtime is pushed back half an hour.

Well, in a case like this, my friends would either ask the person hosting the BBQ to change the times to accomodate them, or they'd not go.

 

[JulySheMustFly]

Well, in a case like this, my friends would either ask the person hosting the BBQ to change the times to accomodate them, or they'd not go.

:o "Erm, excuse me but can you possible make the sun revolve around the earth for me. The other way doesn't work for us."

 

[Linnis]

:o "Erm, excuse me but can you possible make the sun revolve around the earth for me. The other way doesn't work for us."

I have been guilty of leaving early if DS was melting down because it was close to or past his bedtime. I've never thought of asking someone to change their plans for my kid.

 

[heart of peace]

I am very big on rhythym over schedules. I like to flow with the natural rhythyms that abound in our world. God knew that humans have this internal clock and thrive off the familiarity of rhythym and in all His infinite wisdom He created natural cycles (the seasons, the rising and setting of the sun, tides, etc). Also, since humans are actually born 3 months 'earlier' than they really should (due to the narrow birth canal, humans need to come out 3 months earlier than when their brain finishes all the hardwiring it began in the womb), humans are not actually wired to handle any forced routines. Around the 3rd month or so, humans naturally fall into a rhythym of their own. As July said, I like to wait to see what natural rhythym the specific child in question forms and I try to work with his/her schedule.

About mothering site, I will offer a word of caution. They are very pro AP and will reject any belief that is not in accordance with their belief system including those who support exerting parental authority. Take that site with a huge grain of salt. I go there to gather information, I never seek support there.

Good luck and I agree that living life with regrets is no way to live especially when it comes to our children.