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Discussion in 'One Bread, One Body - Catholic' started by Caedmon, Sep 6, 2002.

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  1. Caedmon

    Caedmon kawaii Supporter

    I've heard that Martin Luther held to Marian prayer even while not agreeing with some things about the Catholic church. Are there any churches other than the Roman and Orthodox Sees that advocate the Rosary? Is one required to believe in all Catholic doctrines to do the Rosary? For instance, I cannot believe in the Assumption. However, I find nothing wrong with the "Hail Mary" request for intercession. Any comments?
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  2. KC Catholic

    KC Catholic Everybody's gone surfin'...Surfin' U.S.A

    I cannot think of one, but I know several non-Catholics who pray the Rosary.


    No. ;)

    Go for it. I should do it more than I do. It is a great prayer and away to meditate on mysteries of Christ's birth, death and resurrection.
  3. isshinwhat

    isshinwhat Pro Deo et Patria

    Eastern Orthodox
    Hey, hj, just make up one of your own mysteries in place of the Assumption. Sometimes I'll follow the general outline, but won't meditate on the traditional mysteries, but the five wounds of Christ, instead: His hands, His feet, His side, The Crown of Thorns, and the Scourging. I still pray the Rosary, but I pray this, too, sometimes in front of the Crucifix in the Blessed Sacrament Chapel.

    God Bless,

  4. isshinwhat

    isshinwhat Pro Deo et Patria

    Eastern Orthodox
    I know of some Episcopal and Lutheran Churches which pray the Rosary. Some change the wording of the Ave Maria to exclude the intercessory prayer, but many say it as is. I'll try to track down a website or two for you.

  5. Caedmon

    Caedmon kawaii Supporter

    Ok, I think I might could accept a substitution, but I have a little trouble with this. Now I am not trying to sound rude, but this is really gruesome and difficult for me. I don't really want to think about wounds and gore. First of all, I cannot stand hospitals, surgery, scalpels, needles, blood, or anything that explicitly, graphically depicts bodily wounds. You might come back with something like, "Well you need to sit down and contemplate the pain and sacrifice Christ went through for you!". Ehhhh, I know and accept that He died for me and that He went through terrible pain and awful wounds for me, but -- and I'm being serious -- I don't want to get nauseous dwelling on it two nights a week.
  6. VOW

    VOW Moderator

    To Joe:

    There is no "Rosary Police" that will hide in your closet and jump out at you if you don't do the Rosary "correctly" or check to see if you are a card-carrying Catholic before allowing you to pray the Rosary.

    Wols posted a lovely alternate set of Mysteries in the FAQ thread at the top of the Catholic Forum.

    In this fast-paced life, where you have to do twelve things at once, and thoughts are having fist-fights in your head just to get to the take-a-number machine, the Rosary is an incredible source of comfort. In fact, when I was having trouble with panic attacks, and was even seeing a therapist for some short-term counseling, I was advised to use a mind-clearing thought, and for this, the Rosary is perfect. In a panic attack, some horrible thought gets trapped in a circle in your head, and it crowds out everything, even a voice of reason. Your heart pounds, you get dizzy, and you think the world is going to end.

    The Rosary FORCES you to push all that aside. The prayers on the beads serve as a soothing "background chant" and then you picture the mysteries in your mind. If the other thoughts try to crowd in, you kick them out with the prayers and the mysteries.

    I can even picture myself crawling up into Mary's lap, like a little child, and having her arms go around me as we pray the Rosary together.

    Peace be with you,
  7. Jenna

    Jenna Senior Veteran

    There is no shame in being queezy at the thoughts of Jesus' wounds. In all honesty, we should probably all feel that way. I have a book that I am reading that has a section that details the wounds of Christ, and the reality of it just hits me in the gut. I'd rather have it that way though as opposed to being desensitized to the point of it not really bothering me. :)
  8. Caedmon

    Caedmon kawaii Supporter

    I've got a little story...
    I was driving back from the university the other day, and I got stuck in small town traffic. Well, the lady ahead of me picking up her two kids from school had a car Rosary hanging from her rearview mirror. I was like, awww! I immediately felt a knee-jerk impulse to make the sign of the cross and say a Hail Mary, for two reasons. One, I think the sign of the cross is such an awesome identifier of the Christian faith and identification with God, and two, awww, I wanted the lady to see me and know that I loved her as my sister, and that I'm a Christian too! lol... Furthermore, as of late, I've been taking the Hail Mary apart piece by piece and trying to see if it is "bad". Well, I haven't found anything as of yet, and I used to be very active in the Rosary for a short time. That's the reason for the Hail Mary part of the impulse. Unfortunately, I didn't make the sign of the cross, partly because I was shy, but I seemed to be able to run through the Hail Mary once in my mind, "for old times' sake", I thought to myself.

    There's something about the Rosary that I can't explain. Ok, I don't believe in the last 2 or 3 mysteries, but I can't help but find it curiously appealing. I don't know why. There's just something about the concreteness of the beads, and the continuity of the circle of the "necklace", and the crucifix... it just does something to me, like, puts me at ease. Ever seen a sleepy puppy? Well, that's what it does to me and my nerves, and honestly, I kind of miss that. Maybe it's because it's a form of meditation, and that that meditation is an identification and connection to my Christian faith. All I know is that it would be a good thing for me, because I can get stressed out so easily.
  9. jukesk9

    jukesk9 Dixie Whistlin' Papist

    There is no "Rosary Police" that will hide in your closet and jump out at you if you don't do the Rosary "correctly" :p

    That's classic!

    There is a website, and I will find it for you because I recieve e-mails from them periodically, that does an ecumenical (spelling?) Rosary.  I will try and find it to post it here.
  10. patriarch

    patriarch Senior Member


    Don't be afraid to be creative- you were made in the image and likeness of God!

    For example, 1) you could meditate on the Descent of the Holy Spirit on Our Lady and the Apostles for the last three decades of the Glorious mysteries.

    2) For the Fourth and Fifth Decades of the Glorious Mysteries you could select any two of the following subjects: a) The Peace of Heaven; b) The Joy of Heaven; c) The Permanence of Heaven; d) The Bliss of Heaven; e) The Glory of Heaven; f) The Reality of Heaven; g) The Loveliness of Heaven; h) The Holiness of Heaven; i) The Comforts of Heaven; j) The family of Heaven; k) The beauty of Heaven, etc., etc. etc. etc. etc. ad infinitum.

    Possibly less congenial to you, but as an example of what can be done, it is possible to meditate on the titles of Our Lady in the Litany of Loretto and use them for the fifteen mysteries and more. Holy Mary, Holy Mother of God, etc.

    I can't tell you how much I appreciate your open-ness to  these elements of Catholic piety even though you are determined to remain a Calvinist.  This kind of spirit bodes very well for the future of the Church, and it is an attitude which I wish more Catholics would cultivate.  How can we communicate unless we can learn one another's language, and come to appreciate aspects of one another's spirituality? 

    Personally, I do not see anything at all contradictory with holding that the Catholic Church possesses the fullness of the truth and saying at the same time that aspects of that truth can occasionally (and actually very frequently) be found more fully developed among our separated brethren who are- it must be remembered- united to us by virtue of Baptism and share in the same Christic grace.

    To me, a prime example of this are many of the writings of Watchman Nee, esp The Normal Christian Life.  Is there anything in that book which is contradictory to the faith and morals of the Catholic Church? THAT is the test, not whether its human origins are from persons who are Roman Catholics.  Is it from the Holy Spirit? Then there is nothing to fear.

      How do we know whether it is from the Holy Spirit?  Of course it is ultimately for the teaching authority of the Church to decide, for I am in no way advocating syncretism, in which we patch together disparate elements of Catholicism, Lutheranism, Calvinism etc. in order to hurry ecumenism along.  No way! At the same time, even before the formal approbation of the Church, it is possible for a well instructed Catholic to appropriate prayers, practices, and aspects of the piety and practice of Protestant saints such as Nee, Hudson Taylor etc. which are not contrary to the teaching of the Church.  Any Catholic taking this approach has the full backing of the Decree of Ecumenism and places himself in an excellent position to be a resource to both Protestants and Catholics, just as Humblejoe is doing for his part.


  11. jukesk9

    jukesk9 Dixie Whistlin' Papist

  12. Caedmon

    Caedmon kawaii Supporter

    I've been wondering what that "ecumenical" word meant. It sounds pretty cool, I don't know what I'll do though. It kind of hurts my heart a little bit though since I can't pray a "real" Rosary. :( But I'm not a Catholic and I guess it's the best I can do. :sigh: See, I'm a perfectionist and a "classic", thus I can't stand when I can't do things fully the "right way". I'm just trying to do the best I can. I still feel inadequate though... it strains when you're straddlin' the shores. Oh well, I'll just do my best I guess.
  13. Caedmon

    Caedmon kawaii Supporter

    Thank goodness!

    I'll look at it.

    Yeah, seriously... sometimes I can get bad thought patterns stuck in my head. I need something to flush it out.

    I've had similar feelings. Mine are fear... paralyzing fear... intense bouts of momentary paranoia... not good stuff. :( I know about the thought thing. I can get a set of thoughts trapped in my head, and they whirl round, and round, and round, and round, and round. I have to seriously pull myself away from it. Sometimes it can stop me from sleeping. It's like somebody throws the switch on the auxilliary nuclear power generator in my mind's power grid... buuuuzzzzzzzzzzzzz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Yeah, that's what I need.

    Awww, yeah, I love my mommy too. If she took care of baby Jesus, she can take care of me too. :)
  14. Caedmon

    Caedmon kawaii Supporter

    Actually, I think I can handle the Hail Mary.(although I'm kind of skiddish of the Hail Holy Queen) So far, I haven't found any evidence that people in Heaven can't hear you, nor have I found anything "bad" or sinful about asking people in Heaven to pray for you.

    And I mentioned this earlier, but I'll talk about it again because I want to... :D
    I like the sign of the cross. I think it's pretty cool, and very unitive. And I can't find anything wrong with identifying yourself with the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Of course, it freaks out some people, but only because they're scared of Catholics, lol.

    If I get a Rosary, I think I might get a priest to bless it, if that's not "bad practice" or "forbidden" or something. I want to be connected to my brothers and sisters. I think it's bad if we live so far away and seperated from each other, because it gets lonely, and we lose a lot of love that way. I know I can't believe in all the same stuff, but I try really hard sometimes to be with you guys anyway. It's hard trying to span the chasm, believing different stuff and all that. Ah well, I guess I can believe "Insofar as I can, insofar as you[God] have given me the power". ;) :cool:
  15. Wolseley

    Wolseley Beaucoup-Diên-Cai-Dāu

    United States
    Here's a bunch of alternative mysteries I have come up with over the years. Most of them are Scriptural, although a few of them come from the Deuterocanon. I usually go through and read the passage first, to get the context in my mind and what was going on in the passage, before meditating on the mystery. I post these specifically for you, so I hope you find them helpful. :)


    1. The Scribe and the Six Warriors (Ezek. 9:1)

    2. Michael, Battler of Evil (Dan. 10:13, Dan. 12:1, Rev. 12:7)

    3. The Two Men at Jesus' Tomb (Luke 24:1)

    4. The Angel Frees Peter From Prison (Acts 12:1)

    5. "I am Gabriel" (Luke 1:19); "I am Raphael" (Tobit 12:15)


    1. Elijah raises the widow's son (1 Kings 17:17)

    2. Elisha raises the son of the Shunammite (2 Kings 4:8)

    3. God heals King Hezekiah (2 Kings 20:7)

    4. Jesus raises the son of the Widow of Nain (Luke 7:11)

    5. Jesus raises Lazarus (John 11:1)


    1. Manna in the wilderness (Exod. 16:4)

    2. Water into Wine at Cana (John 2:1)

    3. The Loaves and Fishes (John 6:1)

    4. The Last Supper (Mark 14:22)

    5. Jesus is recognized in the breaking of the bread at Emmaus (Luke 24:28)


    1. Elisha cures Naaman's leprosy (2 Kings 5:1)

    2. The ravens feed Elijah (1 Kings 17:1)

    3. Jesus cures the Gadarene demoniac (Mark 5:1)

    4. Jesus calms the storm (Matt 8:23)

    5. Jesus heals the two blind men (Matt 9:27)


    1. Jesus appears to Mary Magdalene (John 20:11)

    2. The Road to Emmaus (Luke 24:13)

    3. Jesus heals Thomas's doubt (John 20:24)

    4. Jesus reinstates Peter (John 21:15)

    5. Paul on the road to Damascus (Acts 9:1)


    1. Creation (Gen. 1)

    2. Parting of the Red Sea (Ex. 14:21)

    3. The sun stands still (Joshua 10:12)

    4. Elisha and the prophets of Baal (1 Kings 18)

    5. Destruction of Sennacherib's army (2 Kings 19)


    1. Abraham's sacrifice of Isaac (Gen. 22)

    2. David slays Goliath (1 Sam. 17)

    3. Joseph accepts Mary's vocation (Matthew 1:20)

    4. The woman touches Jesus' garment (Matt 9:20)

    5. Peter walks on water (Matt 14:22)


    1. The paralyzed man lowered through the roof (Mark 2:1)

    2. The man with the withered hand (Mark 3:1)

    3. Jesus heals ten lepers (Luke 17:11)

    4. Jesus heals the centurion's servant (Matt 8:5)

    5. Jesus heals the man born blind (John 9:1)


    1. Psalm 46 (God is our refuge and strength....)

    2. Psalm 121 (I will lift up my eyes to the hills....)

    3. Isaiah 54 (Sing, o barren....)

    4. John 14 (Let not your heart be troubled....)

    5. Revelation 21 (God shall wipe away all tears....)


    1. Jesus submits to Mary and Joseph (Luke 2:51)

    2. Jesus works with Jospeh as a carpenter (Mark 6:3)

    3. Jesus with His extended family (Mark 6:6)

    4. The Death of St. Joseph (Sacred Tradition)

    5. Jesus enlarges His family (Matt 12:46)


    1. The womn who touches His garment (Matt 9:20)

    2. Jesus raises Jairus' daughter (Mark 5:21)

    3. Jesus raises the widow's son (Luke 7:11)

    4. Jesus forgives the adulteress (John 8:3)

    5. Jesus pardons the sinful woman (Luke 7:36)


    1. At Matthew the tax collector's (Matt 9:9)

    2. At Simon Peter's (Luke 7:36)

    3. At Martha's (Luke 10:38)

    4. At Bethany (John 12:1)

    5. By the sea (John 12:1)

    There you go. :) I realize some of these don't exactly fit the categories they're in; so if they bug you, insert something that works better for you. I wouldn't get too hung up about the legalistic aspect of the Rosary, by the way; as long as you're meditating on holy things, you're doing what you're supposed to do. It's a meditative prayer, and it really doesn't matter if you're meditating on the Joyful Mysteries, or one of these above, or something else.....in fact, when I'm in the car and have come up dry for ideas to meditate on, I have been known to do a decade based on the lyrics of "Good King Wenceslaus", one of my favorite Christmas carols:

    1. Good King Wenceslaus looked out, on the Feast of Stephen, when the snow lay round about, deep and thick and even.

    2. Brightly shone the moon that night, though the frost was cruel; when a poor man came in sight, gathering winter fuel.

    3. "Hither, page, and stand by me, if thou knowest it telling---yonder peasant: who is he? Where and what his dwelling?"

    4. "Sire, he lives a good league hence, underneath the mountain; right against the forest fence, by St. Agnes' fountain."

    5. "Bring me meat and bring me wine, bring me pine logs hither; thou and I shall see him dine, when we bear them thither."

    6. Page and monarch, forth they went, forth they went together; through the rude wind's wild lament, and the bitter weather.

    7. "Sire, the night grows darker now, and the wind grows stronger; fails my heart I know not how---I can go no longer."

    8. "Mind my footsteps, my good page, tread thou in them boldly; thou shalt find the winter's rage freeze thy blood less coldly."

    9. In his master's steps he trod, where the snow lay dinted; heat was in the very sod which the saint had printed.

    10. Therefore Christian men, be sure, rank or wealth possessing: ye who now that bless the poor, shall yourselves find blessing.

    (St. Wenceslaus was a cool guy; he was the king of Bohemia, and actually loved and cared for his people, even the peasants, which was pretty unusual for the 10th century. I think this carol brings that out admirably.)

    Now that I think about it, I should sit down and do a bunch of mysteries based on the lives of saints. In fact, as a coda to this post, here's a set for St. Francis of Assisi, composed by me, even as I sit here right now:

    1. Christ on the Cross speaks to Francis: "Repair My Church".

    2. Francis rebuilds the Church of San Damiano.

    3. Francis returns his father's money and clothes, and is recieved naked by the Bishop of Assisi.

    4. Francis attracts the little brothers.

    5. Francis goes to see the Pope.

    6. Francis preaches to the birds.

    7. Francis receives Sister Claire.

    8. Francis reproves the Wolf of Gubbio.

    9. Francis recieves the stigmata.

    10. Francis explains Christ to the Sultan of Egypt.

    There you go, Joe. This ought to keep you busy for quite a while. :D

    God bless,
  16. Caedmon

    Caedmon kawaii Supporter

    Thanks Wols!!! I think... lol :D

    I didn't know you could change around the Rosary. I thought that was "wrong" or "bad practice", or something.
  17. Caedmon

    Caedmon kawaii Supporter

    Awww, I want a Rosary! I would love to have one. The hard thing, though, is that I would have to hide it from my mother. She's terrified of me even talking about Catholic things. And you can imagine how much it hurts my heart that I can't even talk about wanting a Catholic wife. :( (Those of you that know me know how passionate I am about family.) And I can imagine how much it would cause a problem if I did marry a Catholic girl. I pray about this every day. I really would like to have a Catholic wife one day because of my beliefs on family and such... but it really terrifies me to think how my mom would react. Please, please, please pray for me, that I could make it through such difficulties. As always, I will praise God through it and try my best to bear that cross when it comes. Pray for me! :pray:
  18. pax

    pax Veteran

    I don't think there is any such thing as a "bad" rosary as long as you're trying.  Also, if you like the Rosary you might also like the Chaplet of the Divine Mercy.  It's not really quite as Marian in nature, but it can be said on ordinary Rosary beads.  There aren't really any "mysteries" when praying this chaplet, but it is a beautiful prayer.  For more info on the Divine Mercy devotion try: http://www.ewtn.com/Devotionals/mercy/dmhome.htm .  For the chaplet click on the link that says "the chaplet." 
  19. Wolseley

    Wolseley Beaucoup-Diên-Cai-Dāu

    United States
    Father Peter Stravinskas, in The Catholic Answer Book Vol. 3: "There is certainly nothing wrong with using alternative mysteries. In fact, Pope Paul VI envisions just this in his document on Marian devotion, Marialis Cultus."

    Quoting from that same document:
    (February 2, 1974.)

    Now you have corroboration from both a Pope and from a theologian that I personally trust implicitly. :) Go forth and pray.
  20. Kotton

    Kotton Senior Member

    Actually, I do not consider the Hail Holy Queen to be part of the Rosary, but a late addition.  When I was in Catholic school we recited the Rosary every day after noon recess. There was NEVER the Hail Holy Queen said, but I started hearing it used years later. (My brother came in as I was reading this and he agreed we did not say it as part of the Rosary.)Not that I find it wrong, but to me it doesn't belong. We must remember that the Rosary has changed many times over the centuries. 

    Have to agree with you about the sign of the cross, people think it's only Catholic. :(  Get your Rosary blessed, it's just another way of saying this is to be used for a HOLY purpose.

    Best of God's love to you,  Kotton :wave:
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