Rosary vs icons.

[AMM]

My opinion is that if you are just mouthing words as a robot without any intellectual activity you would be better off with hesychastic or contemplative prayer. Words in prayer are not fundamentally different from words in general. They are still meant to signify, represent, etc. When I pray the Jesus prayer I think about Jesus.

But since we are not in a 'debate forum' I will not push this further.

Hesychastic and contemplative prayer are not supposed to be robotic mouthing of words

And we can move this to the debate forum if you want

 

[zippy2006]

Hesychastic and contemplative prayer are not supposed to be robotic mouthing of words

I meant the kind of hesychasm or contemplation that is wordless.

And we can move this to the debate forum if you want

Thanks but that's probably not necessary.

P.S. I like your image of St. Jerome. I guess I always assumed he was more of a Western saint what with his Vulgate and all. Maybe I was mistaken?

 

[ArmyMatt]

My opinion is that if you are just mouthing words as a robot without any intellectual activity you would be better off with hesychastic or contemplative prayer. Words in prayer are not fundamentally different from words in general. They are still meant to signify, represent, etc. When I pray the Jesus prayer I think about Jesus.

But since we are not in a 'debate forum' I will not push this further.

the problem is that we agree that you don't just mouth words like a robot. hesychastic prayer transcends words and images.

 

[Tigger45]

Hesychastic and contemplative prayer are not supposed to be robotic mouthing of words

And we can move this to the debate forum if you want

Being I’m the OP either moving the thread or leaving it is fine with me. I do prefer the spirit and intent of St. Basil’s seeing I have a legit question that I just want to get my head around.

I did have an epiphany though. If we are less intent on conjuring up a mental image maybe we’d be more inclined to hearing from God?

 

[AMM]

P.S. I like your image of St. Jerome. I guess I always assumed he was more of a Western saint what with his Vulgate and all. Maybe I was mistaken?

Thanks, he's my patron saint. More popular in the western tradition, to be sure. But he actually lived for a time in Germany and eventually settled in Syria outside of Antioch, and was one of the desert fathers, the early monks. He's considered a saint in Orthodoxy as well, I know of a few people (and one newly canonized saint) with the name "Hieronymus" (which is "Jerome" in Greek) - I'm guessing but not 100% certain that they are named after the same Saint Hieronymus/Jerome

 

[AMM]

Being I’m the OP either moving the thread or leaving it is fine with me. I do prefer the spirit and intent of St. Basil’s seeing I have a legit question that I just want to get my head around.

I did have an epiphany though. If we are less intent on conjuring up a mental image maybe we’d be more inclined to hearing from God?

oh right, I wasn't paying attention to the fact that I wasn't responding to the OP. Sorry bout that

and maybe, I'll let Fr Matt answer that one, I'm not sure

 

[ArmyMatt]

I did have an epiphany though. If we are less intent on conjuring up a mental image maybe we’d be more inclined to hearing from God?

nailed it. not only that, but you can see Him as He is, which is unlike any image you can think up.

 

[Lost4words]

Another thing to add is that we *do* know what Christ looked like - the first icon was painted by St Luke who knew the holy family personally

Link to that icon would be appreciated. Thanks

 

[AMM]

Link to that icon would be appreciated. Thanks

I don’t know if we have the original to be honest. But it’s the icon of Mary called “Directress” because she is holding the Christ child and directing us to him with her hand.

There’s also the “Icon Not Made by Hands” which was made by Christ himself. St Veronica, on Christ’s walk to Golgotha, faves him a cloth to wipe his face and it had in image of his face on it afterwards. Eventually it made its way to Edessa. Eusebius tells us about this in his Ecclesiastical History

 

[Lost4words]

I don’t know if we have the original to be honest. But it’s the icon of Mary called “Directress” because she is holding the Christ child and directing us to him with her hand.

There’s also the “Icon Not Made by Hands” which was made by Christ himself. St Veronica, on Christ’s walk to Golgotha, faves him a cloth to wipe his face and it had in image of his face on it afterwards. Eventually it made its way to Edessa. Eusebius tells us about this in his Ecclesiastical History

And the Shroud too.