Romney a fitting president - Bible code

[Merope]

I seem to remember hearing about someone who decided to show that the "Bible code" stuff was bunk and he proved that you could basically take any work of literature and through mathematical razzmatazz could "predict" anything.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I seem to remember hearing about someone who decided to show that the "Bible code" stuff was bunk and he proved that you could basically take any work of literature and through mathematical razzmatazz could "predict" anything.

Pretty much..

 

[Nabobalis]

I seem to remember hearing about someone who decided to show that the "Bible code" stuff was bunk and he proved that you could basically take any work of literature and through mathematical razzmatazz could "predict" anything.

Yes, you could take Moby-Dick and predict just about anything.

 

[Merope]

Yes, you could take Moby-Dick and predict just about anything.

I think you'll find that even most atheists would rather read the Bible.

 

[SepiaAndDust]

At the time of the end, there has been discovered, because of computer technology, the fact that everything that was/is to occur has been written, just like it is in heaven. (Book of Truth)

It's like a massive computer program, only infinitely more broad and deep than we can imagine.

I agree completely! Moby Dick is a prophetic masterpiece!

 

[SharonL]

Belief in the Constitution is the only thing that will determine the future of this country. How has Obama's religion influenced anything in this country?

A strong moral character who believes in the truth and openly leading this country as the Constitution states it should be led will have more influence than a person claiming he is a Christian who is surrounded by corruption and people without strong character and leading for what is best for them, doing leading behind closed doors with bribery.

 

[Chris81]

Shouldn't this thread be in the Unorthodox Theology section? When you are peddling Mormonism as Christianity and bible codes as the means to interpret the bible I don't think the American Politics section is quite fitting. Just saying...

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

Romney does not worship the Christian God -- do you claim that the Psalm is referring to any "God" ? Does it refer to the God of the Christians, and of Islam, and of the Mormons, and of Satanists ?

I was reading a thread in the Baptism forum, where an elder stated that Mormons meet the test of faith in Christ through the resurrection. While we disagree with practices and doctrine, the fundamental is there. I happen to disagree with practices of other Orthodox Christian denominations, but that doesn't make them less of a Christian.

 

[Thekla]

Belief in the Constitution is the only thing that will determine the future of this country. How has Obama's religion influenced anything in this country?

A strong moral character who believes in the truth and openly leading this country as the Constitution states it should be led will have more influence than a person claiming he is a Christian who is surrounded by corruption and people without strong character and leading for what is best for them, doing leading behind closed doors with bribery.

Can anything certain be known about Romney ?

He has consistently changed his positions, misrepresented his record, and destroyed records of his tenure at the Olympics and as Mass. governor.

Romney’s Olympic Tax Payer 1.5 Billion Shakedown Road to the White House | The Conservative Pundit.net

He made his fortune engaging in financialization - the very practice that eroded the position of the middle class and destroyed our economy.

Re: the Constitution -- has Romney promised to repeal the Patriot Act, or undue any of the policies introduced by the Bush administration that undermine our Constitutional rights ?

He has stated that he does not believe that waterboarding is torture.

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

Can anything certain be known about Romney ?

He has consistently changed his positions, misrepresented his record, and destroyed records of his tenure at the Olympics and as Mass. governor.

Romney’s Olympic Tax Payer 1.5 Billion Shakedown Road to the White House | The Conservative Pundit.net

He made his fortune engaging in financialization - the very practice that eroded the position of the middle class and destroyed our economy.

Re: the Constitution -- has Romney promised to repeal the Patriot Act, or undue any of the policies introduced by the Bush administration that undermine our Constitutional rights ?

He has stated that he does not believe that waterboarding is torture.

Did Obama repeal any of those acts you take issue with? No.

Obama has overseen the destruction of the middle class. You can't hang that on Romney.

 

[Thekla]

I was reading a thread in the Baptism forum, where an elder stated that Mormons meet the test of faith in Christ through the resurrection. While we disagree with practices and doctrine, the fundamental is there. I happen to disagree with practices of other Orthodox Christian denominations, but that doesn't make them less of a Christian.

They believe the resurrection was of someone with a different identity than that of Jesus Christ.

Though Christian denominations may disagree on doctrine, they do agree on the identity of Jesus Christ, God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, and on Who created the universe, and all things seen (matter) and unseen. The Mormon "Gods" do not have the same identity as the Christian God, and none of the Mormon "Gods" created the universe. Theologically, on this issue, they are closer to the Gnostics and the belief in the demiurge. On the identity of Christ, they are more in accord with the Arians, and on God the Father as having a human body they are in accord with the Audians. These three groups were considered in ancient times, and now, as heretical.

 

[pgp_protector]

Obama ate a dog, found it was tough.

So what's wrong with eating dog if it's raised for food?
(FYI Dog when cooked properly isn't tough , and isn't bad)

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Romney does not worship the Christian God -- do you claim that the Psalm is referring to any "God" ? Does it refer to the God of the Christians, and of Islam, and of the Mormons, and of Satanists ?

Mormonism was never considered Christianity when it broke off during what was known as the Restorationist era (more here and here and here). It has repeatedly been denounced by mainstream Christianity for decades when it comes to core values of Christianity that are denied---from the beliefs that blacks are cursed to the belief that God had sex with other divine beings in order to make spirit children like Jesus/Lucifer (seen as brothers) to saying God the Father used to be a man like us from another galaxy and claiming men can become like him/rule other universes (blasphemy). What others have often noted is that people were willing to denounce it as "un-Christian" when it wasn't the case that it'd be in the forefront of the Republican party...but once one for it won, the loyalty to the GOP has influenced many to soften up and make previous stances be as if they were never there.

IMHO, all groups of people not trusting in Christ as He expressed of himself are decieved...but there are levels of deception. There are, of course, MANY people who'd grow up in Mormonism not fully aware of what it teaches--but when presented it and refusing to turn away from it (as Romney has), that's a different issue altogether. I do believe it's possible for one to be involved in Mormonism and be a believer due to the issue of revelation being limited at times...

Speaking personally for myself, people such as Philip Jenkins have been the people I learn from at times and they've been of great benefit when it comes to the issue of Mormonism and how to see it...seeing how much they've spread/advanced over the years. He at one point of his book "The Next Christendom" allowed for the inclusion of Mormons in the advancement of Global Christianity...but he made clear that he did so specifically in considering them as "semi-Christian" (p. 66).... something many Mormons take issue with. When reading the book fully, it seemed clear that Jenkins was never saying he personally felt that Mormonism was in any way representative of what Biblical Christianity is at any level. It had many Christian themes and aspects---but the Christ of Mornomism and that of what the early Jewish church felt are 2 radically different things.

There's a need to categorize what specific groups are apart of Christendom--including those groups which are in Abberational Christianity, where they may "major on minors and minor on majors"...leading them to no longer really be reflective of historical Christianity even as it may still hold aspects of it in tack. Single doctrines are never held in isolation from other doctrines, but rather is always part of a system or network of beliefs held by a person or group. And sometimes that system of beliefs includes many doctrines which are orthodox/biblical as well as some which are heretical in a damaging sense. For example, a religious group might hold that the Bible is the Word of God, that there is only one God, that Jesus was born of a virgin and rose from the dead, and yet deny the deity of Jesus Christ. Such a group's belief system is heretical, even though it contains many true beliefs. Moreover, a group's heretical beliefs generally lead them to misunderstand or misapply even those true beliefs they do confess, since the beliefs tend to be interdependent and thus mutually affect one another. Additionally, people often hold conflicting beliefs. Because people are often inconsistent, in some cases they may hold to orthodox beliefs but also hold to beliefs that undermine or contradict their orthodox beliefs. IMHO, this is definately the case with Mormonism

There are many stories of Ex-Mormons who noted they believed Jesus was the Savior/Messiah and needed to trust in Him, even though they weren't fully aware of all the errors within Mormonism...and they got basic components of the faith where they were at.

That said, I don't see where the scriptures EVER allowed for others to be given revelation of who Christ is and to still be good when they blantantly turn away from what the Lord said in favor of a lie. The first commandment alongside the second are key issues for those trusting in Messiah, as believing that God alone is GOD and there is no other like him is something that was never taken lightly---and anyone claiming that God was once a man just like us and we can become God sets the stage for an WORLD of apostasy/blasphemy.

And for Republican friends who see Romney as the hope of our country's future, and belittle the importance of his Mormon faith, anyone knowing the summary of Mormonism would be wise. At the church I grew up at, it was never treated as a light issue.

Banned Mormon Cartoon - EXTENDED VERSION​

The issue of celestial sex that God apparently had with another female deity in order to produce Christ and the Devil amongst other wacky beliefs found within Mormonism---I'm surprised so many act as if that's not an issue and thinking "Oh...well, it's not really that bad of deception or that much against scripture"---for it's another religion entirely, especially when claiming that men will be able to become like God the Father at some point and rule in another universe if they do well enough in their works. President Obama has NEVER come remotely close to advocating anything close to that and I think it wise that many Evangelicals have pointed that out when noting what the President believes/how it's far more Biblical than anything else offered in other presidential options ( #1#18 and #131 )

Can't say I'm very excited about the prospect of having a man who holds to this theology in office. Beyond that, there's also the issue of polygamists and many wishing to have that lifestyle pushed when someone gets into office supporting their views..awaiting if he'll speak against the legality of polygamous marriages in Utah and other places... I don't think it's right how so many are focusing on Romney's polygamous ancestry---but it'll be interesting to see if he'll shut it down for good in the U.S where it occurs.

Other issues with his beliefs/how he feels toward blacks are significant enough. Where the Mormon church stands on blacks is never acceptable (more here, here, here / here/here ), regardless of Romney trying to get past that as if it's a non-issue. He has already been called out multiple times on commentary/policies he has supported that do not really favor black communities---and I'm not surprised as to why in light of his faith. Black Republicans, regardless of what Romney says, are right (IMHO) to note that Romney's lack of interest in the black community is shameful....just as much as with President Obama's actions.

LDS Mormon Mitt Romney on Blacks Priesthood​

His stances toward Hispanics also don't seem favorale, IMHO, as it concerns immigration---ironic, IMHO, in light of his background[


It's interesting to see what happens with the inconsistency when saying at one point someone will never support someone...and yet they'll go for them when their party endorses them.

From where I stand, it does seem that much of the switching of stances (and the basis of it being fear for what may come) is a revelation in how circumstances---and not faith---often determine the choices of others. This election isn't the first time Romney brought issues of compromise to the service. I'm reminded of what occurred with Dr.James Dobson of "Focus on the Family" (one of the largest religious right/pro-life groups around) and many others way back in 2008 (before President Obama was elected) and how many were speaking out against Romney just as they were against Obama and other cannidates who didn't walk in righteousness.

Dobson/others raised fuss about President Obama being with Reverend Jeremiah Wright in his church, concerning Black Liberation Theology. Many blasted the church on the theology, not even knowing fully what it was about or seeing what Liberation Theology is pratically and how there are differing variations of it---and Dobson, in his view, said it was wrong to elect a president who (in his mind) went to a racist chuch. Dobson, being Religious Right, was vehemently against anything concerning support of the President during the era he was running (more here and here ).

Dobson accuses Obama of 'distorting' Bible​

And yet with Rommney, he switched. For with President Obama, he said that Christians should never vote for a president who has religious standards not lining up with the Bible since it could influence their presidency....and he said the same thing of Rommney at one point due to his Mormon background. But when Rommney became the most PROMINENT Republican cannidate at one point, all talk on religious background went OUT the window and he started saying how religious right people need to vote to Rommney since he is "qualified" to lead (more here/ here ).

Thankfully, he has tried to come back to seeing the reality of corruption on all sides and encouraging believers to make a radical stand in not approving of any side that is not sold out for the Lord (more shared here/ here )...similar to others in history such as Deitrick Bonheffer and others in Germany when seeing the ways elections were set up and how they refused to endorse any party that was sold out to things the Lord said he hated..

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Just because they use the same names does not mean they worship the same God.

They believe the god they worship did not create the universe and matter.

They believe "God the Father" and Jesus Christ used to be ordinary humans who through obedience became gods.

Do you think God the Father has a body ? Do you believe He used to be a human being like you, or me, or Romney ?

Just because the Mormons use the same names does not mean they worship the same God as Christians; that would be like saying that everyone with the name Thekla is the same person.

I think it's interesting to consider what you noted since it can be more than possible for one to be seeking Christ even when the facts they have may not be accurate---no different than it'd be, in example, with churches that were cut off for a long time and yet they arose with many differing views of what the scripture says. There was a book I remember coming across entitled "Mystics and messiahs : cults and new religions in American history" at the library --and it goes into good detail about the history of cults within the U.S...and seeing how they have evolved. Within it, the author profiles some of the more famous new American religions, such as Mormonism, as well as some lesser-known groups, such as the House of David. Its interesting to witness how religious tolerance is still challenging today...for where some contend that we are in a unprecedented era of new "cults" and "heterodoxy", it can be easily forgotten how the American religious landscape has always been filled with new faiths dismissed in their time as deviant.

As Charles Ferguson observed in 1928, "America has always been the sanctuary of amazing cults." ..but America has also been the home of an often hysterical anti-cult backlash. It can be interesting studying why cults arouse such fear and hatred both in the secular world and in mainstream churches, many of which--Baptists, Quakers, Pentecostals, and Methodists--were themselves originally regarded as cults (just as WOF was once regarded..and still is by some...as cultic, be it certain camps or as a whole). There were many instances where the very religious movements that were once denounced as new faiths produce the leaders who in turn denounce the faiths that come after them.

The Mormonism dynamic cannot be taken lightly when it comes to politics, IMHO, since one's religious views influence their political ideologies---no different than with the current president who advocated for many things based on his own religious views/those supporting them (including on gay marriage)---but to say that all Mormons serve Satan would not accurate. It could be said, of course (as I Timothy 4 and 2 Corinthians 11:2-4 / 2 Corinthians 11 notes ) that others in Mormonism are indeed following doctrines inspired by demons since deception comes from that ----and when claiming to follow the Lord thinking God was a man once whom we'll surpass when repeating the process (counter to what salvation discusses), that's blasphemy that the Lord says will bring consequences.

Nonetheless, to say all are lost in it/not seeking Jesus would not be on point.

Things tend to get interesting when seeing the many ways Mormons consistently deny Christian values/get upset at Christians who refuse to consider their group "Christian" on the same level as others.....and with good reason, despite where there are many Christian principles in place with Mormonism.

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

They believe the resurrection was of someone with a different identity than that of Jesus Christ.

Though Christian denominations may disagree on doctrine, they do agree on the identity of Jesus Christ, God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, and on Who created the universe, and all things seen (matter) and unseen. The Mormon "Gods" do not have the same identity as the Christian God, and none of the Mormon "Gods" created the universe. Theologically, on this issue, they are closer to the Gnostics and the belief in the demiurge. On the identity of Christ, they are more in accord with the Arians, and on God the Father as having a human body they are in accord with the Audians. These three groups were considered in ancient times, and now, as heretical.

Not that it matters for the election to me, because I don't see much demonstration of Obama's faith and how he uses that to lead, but I am curious about this topic. Could you PM me some info on Mormons and the resurrection?

 

[LionofJudahDK]

The only thing more ridiculous than 9/11-conspiracy theories (or those about the moon landing), is this insane "Bible Code" nonsense. Trying to find clues to an American election in the translation of a 3.000 year old Hebrew text is.....
yeah, something I'm not allowed to say here, because the puritans who value form over substance, reign supreme here.

 

[LionofJudahDK]

Then why do the mormons believe that Jesus is the Son of God, their Savior?

Our Beliefs | Mormon.org

Obviously, you are wrong.

No, she's absolutely right. Mormonism is paganism with a Christian facade. I don't know if that technically makes them "heretics", and I don't really give a fiddlestick either.

 

[LionofJudahDK]

I was reading a thread in the Baptism forum, where an elder stated that Mormons meet the test of faith in Christ through the resurrection.

Well, the Baptists are on the outer edge of Christianity as it is, so I do not really put a lot of trust in a Baptist elder's words about mormonism.
And yes, I'm only half-way kidding.

While we disagree with practices and doctrine, the fundamental is there.

No, it isn't! As Thekla has quite nicely demonstrated, mormonism believes in a completely different "God" from the one Christianity professes!
This is NOT just a matter of practices, but of fundamentals!

I happen to disagree with practices of other Orthodox Christian denominations, but that doesn't make them less of a Christian.

Because they aren't. Because they do not worship a man-made, false God.

 

[Trogool]

You are apparently ignorant of Bible codes.

God has declared the end from the beginning. Everything has been written.

You do know that Bible codes are discredited garbage, right?

 

[Thekla]

Did Obama repeal any of those acts you take issue with? No.

And I do take issue w/Obama on that. Nor do I have any indication that Romney will do anything on these issues - he hasn't even addressed them.
Given his Mass. governing style (as CEO, not as governor), I can't see that he has any problem with accreting undue power to himself. Further, he is an insider in a crony model -- another indication of his diffidence toward democracy.

Obama has overseen the destruction of the middle class. You can't hang that on Romney.

You correlate this downfall with one president, but ignore the long-term decline and origin of this decline.

Romney was a financier - and financialization of the economy is a big part of this decline.

Romney is pro-deregulation, Ryan even moreso -- deregulation is a huge contributing factor in the decline of the middle class.

Romney was an advocate for offshoring and move to part time vs. full time jobs (see for ex. the ratio of full vs. pt positions at Staples).

Romney was part of the move to business interest in quarterly profit instead of long-term growth and value creation.

Romney was a wealth extractor, not value creator.

Romney was fine with sucking govt. funds when it suited his personal agenda -- Bain captured pension funds, a form of middle class deferred compensation and left the govt. insurance program to pay instead.
-- Romney asked and received 1.5 billion taxpayer dollars for the Olympics (the most expensive US Olympics ever, even exceeding the Atlanta Summer games) and preferred his cronies for associated projects (which in turn was a boon for his Mass. office run).

Obama was in office when the effect of policies and practices finally hit.
Romney was part of the creation of those practices.