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Tyler35

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Blessings Brothers and Sisters,

Does anyone have articles or links they can send me on the early Church’s’ interpretation of Romans 9? What I have found thus far is the early Church did not look at Romans 9 in a double predestination sense. I have not found many articles though, very few actually. Can anybody provide me their knowledge or links to papers and articles?

Thank you in advance!
 

HTacianas

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Blessings Brothers and Sisters,

Does anyone have articles or links they can send me on the early Church’s’ interpretation of Romans 9? What I have found thus far is the early Church did not look at Romans 9 in a double predestination sense. I have not found many articles though, very few actually. Can anybody provide me their knowledge or links to papers and articles?

Thank you in advance!

You can read Saint John Chrysostom's commentary on Romans 9 here:

 
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PsaltiChrysostom

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This is John Chrysostom's homily on Romans 9. He did an entire series of homilies covering books of Scripture.

 
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PsaltiChrysostom

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sandman

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Blessings Brothers and Sisters,

Does anyone have articles or links they can send me on the early Church’s’ interpretation of Romans 9? What I have found thus far is the early Church did not look at Romans 9 in a double predestination sense. I have not found many articles though, very few actually. Can anybody provide me their knowledge or links to papers and articles?

Thank you in advance!

Romans chapters 9 through 11 ..... and a short section from chapter 2 going into chapter 3 (a short ways) are addressing the Jews (Israel) and Gentiles. ....not the Church of God. ..... same with the entire book of Hebrews.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Blessings Brothers and Sisters,

Does anyone have articles or links they can send me on the early Church’s’ interpretation of Romans 9? What I have found thus far is the early Church did not look at Romans 9 in a double predestination sense. I have not found many articles though, very few actually. Can anybody provide me their knowledge or links to papers and articles?

Thank you in advance!
Correct. You will only find it in the late writings of Augustine.
Blessings.
 
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Diamond72

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predestination
The views of the early Church Fathers on the topic of predestination varied, and their writings reflect a range of perspectives on this theological issue. It's important to note that the term "Church Fathers" refers to influential Christian theologians and leaders in the early centuries of Christianity, and their views were not uniform. Here are some key points and notable Church Fathers related to the topic of predestination:

  1. Augustine of Hippo (354-430): Augustine is perhaps the most famous early Church Father associated with the concept of predestination. He believed in a strong doctrine of predestination, arguing that God's choice of who is saved is unconditional and not based on human merit. He famously debated Pelagius, who held a more optimistic view of human free will. Augustine's views on predestination had a significant impact on later Western Christian theology, including within the Roman Catholic and Reformed traditions.
  2. Pelagius (c. 360-c. 420): Pelagius was a British monk who opposed Augustine's views on predestination and emphasized the importance of human free will in salvation. He argued that individuals have the ability to choose to follow God and that God's grace assists but does not determine the outcome of salvation. Pelagianism was eventually condemned as a heresy by the Western Church.
  3. John Chrysostom (c. 349-407): Chrysostom, the Archbishop of Constantinople, had a more moderate view on predestination. While he affirmed the importance of God's grace in salvation, he also stressed human cooperation with God's grace through faith and obedience. His teachings emphasized the synergy between divine grace and human response.
  4. Irenaeus (c. 130-202): Irenaeus, an early Church Father and bishop of Lyons, emphasized the concept of recapitulation, in which Christ renews and restores humanity through His incarnation, death, and resurrection. Irenaeus stressed that human free will and faith played a role in salvation.
  5. Clement of Alexandria (c. 150-215): Clement emphasized the role of education and moral formation in the process of salvation. He believed that individuals could cooperate with God's grace through intellectual and moral growth.
These are just a few examples of the diversity of views on predestination among the early Church Fathers. It's important to recognize that the early Christian tradition included a range of perspectives on this complex theological topic, and discussions and debates on predestination continued to evolve in the centuries that followed, influencing various branches of Christianity and theological traditions.
 
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Clare73

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Blessings Brothers and Sisters,

Does anyone have articles or links they can send me on the early Church’s’ interpretation of Romans 9? What I have found thus far is the early Church did not look at Romans 9 in a double predestination sense. I have not found many articles though, very few actually. Can anybody provide me their knowledge or links to papers and articles?

Thank you in advance!
There are only two options, heaven or hell.

Doesn't single predestination necessarily imply double predestination?

If you're not destined for heaven, then are you not necessarily destined for hell?
 
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PsaltiChrysostom

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There are only two options, heaven or hell.

Doesn't single predestination necessarily imply double predestination?

If you're not destined for heaven, then are you not necessarily destined for hell?
No, just look at Lutheran doctrine. God desires the salvation of all which means He does not predestine or want people to go to hell.

I. Acc. to the Bible, all that God does in time for our conversion, justification, and final glorification is based on, and flows from, an eternal decree of election or predestination, acc. to which God, before the foundation of the world, chose us in His Son Jesus Christ out of the mass of sinful mankind unto faith, the adoption of sons, and everlasting life; this election is not based on any good quality or act of the elect, nor is it intuitu* fidei, but is based solely on God's grace, the good pleasure of His will in Christ Jesus. The Bible does not teach reprobation, i. e., an election of wrath for those who are lost; God earnestly desires the salvation of all; the lost are lost by their own fault. The Bible does not solve the problem that exists for the human mind that tries to harmonize the doctrine of universal grace and the doctrines of election and salvation by grace alone. The doctrine of election by grace, properly used, will not foster carnal security, but will make the believer conscious of the matchless glory of the grace of God, serve as a constant incentive to sanctification, comfort him in the ills and tribulations of this life, and give him the blessed assurance of final salvation. Since the doctrine of election by grace is clearly taught in the Bible, it is written for all Christians to learn.

 
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Clare73

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No, just look at Lutheran doctrine. God desires the salvation of all which means He does not predestine or want people to go to hell.

I. Acc. to the Bible, all that God does in time for our conversion, justification, and final glorification is based on, and flows from, an eternal decree of election or predestination, acc. to which God, before the foundation of the world, chose us in His Son Jesus Christ out of the mass of sinful mankind unto faith, the adoption of sons, and everlasting life; this election is not based on any good quality or act of the elect, nor is it intuitu* fidei, but is based solely on God's grace, the good pleasure of His will in Christ Jesus. The Bible does not teach reprobation, i. e., an election of wrath for those who are lost; God earnestly desires the salvation of all; the lost are lost by their own fault. The Bible does not solve the problem that exists for the human mind that tries to harmonize the doctrine of universal grace and the doctrines of election and salvation by grace alone. The doctrine of election by grace, properly used, will not foster carnal security, but will make the believer conscious of the matchless glory of the grace of God, serve as a constant incentive to sanctification, comfort him in the ills and tribulations of this life, and give him the blessed assurance of final salvation. Since the doctrine of election by grace is clearly taught in the Bible, it is written for all Christians to learn.

The problem remains: there being only two choices, those not predestined to election are necessarily predestined to damnation.

I think the answer would be that their damnation is not due to action of God in predestination, but to action of Adam; i.e., by "natural" consequences.
 
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FutureAndAHope

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Blessings Brothers and Sisters,

Does anyone have articles or links they can send me on the early Church’s’ interpretation of Romans 9? What I have found thus far is the early Church did not look at Romans 9 in a double predestination sense. I have not found many articles though, very few actually. Can anybody provide me their knowledge or links to papers and articles?

Thank you in advance!
I have looked into the Earliest Church's view of Romans 9. Using the first 150 years of church history. The fact is no one specifically mentions how they interpret it, but they seem to see the story of Jacob and Esau as a prophetic picture of faith. The younger undeserving nation Jacob (Gentiles) received the birthright, that was originally the older Esau (Jews).

However all of their other writings stand strongly on the side of human free will, they did not believe in the Predestination of souls to salvation or damnation.

I have the quotes that I found on Roman's 9 here A comprehensive look at Predestination vs free will

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I cut and pasted the quotes to save you time.

Irenaeus Against Heresies. (Cont.)
Book IV. (Cont.)

Chap. XXI. — Abraham’s Faith Was Identical with Ours; This Faith Was Prefigured by the Words and Actions of the Old Patriarchs.

2. The history of Isaac, too, is not without a symbolical character. For in the Epistle to the Romans, the apostle declares: “Moreover, when Rebecca had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac,” she received answer72 from the Word, “that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of Him that calleth, it was said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people are in thy body; and the one people shall overcome the other, and the elder shall serve the younger.” (Rom_9:10-13; Gen_25:23) From which it is evident, that not only [were there] prophecies of the patriarchs, but also that the children brought forth by Rebecca were a prediction of the two nations; and that the one should be indeed the greater, but the other the less; that the one also should be under bondage, but the other free; but [that both should be] of one and the same father. Our God, one and the same, is also their God, who knows hidden things, who knoweth all things before they can come to pass; and for this reason has He said, “Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.” (Rom_9:13; Mal_1:2)

3. If any one, again, will look into Jacob’s actions, he shall find them not destitute of meaning, but full of import with regard to the dispensations. Thus, in the first place, at his birth, since he laid hold on his brother’s heel, (Gen_25:26) he was called Jacob, that is, the supplanter — one who holds, but is not held; binding the feet, but not being bound; striving and conquering; grasping in his hand his adversary’s heel, that is, victory. For to this end was the Lord born, the type of whose birth he set forth beforehand, of whom also John says in the Apocalypse: “He went forth conquering, that He should conquer.” (Rev_6:2) In the next place, [Jacob] received the rights of the first-born, when his brother looked on them with contempt; even as also the younger nation received Him, Christ, the first-begotten, when the elder nation rejected Him, saying, “We have no king but Caesar.” (Joh_19:15) But in Christ every blessing [is summed up], and therefore the latter people has snatched away the blessings of the former from the Father, just as Jacob took away the blessing of this Esau.

Justin Martyr - Dialoque with Trypho Ch 103-121
Chap. CXX. — Christians Were Promised to Isaac, Jacob, and Judah.

“Observe, too, how the same promises are made to Isaac and to Jacob. For thus He speaks to Isaac: ‘And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed.’ (Gen_26:4) And to Jacob: ‘And in thee and in thy seed shall all families of the earth be blessed.’ (Gen_28:14) He says that neither to Esau nor to Reuben, nor to any other; only to those of whom the Christ should arise, according to the dispensation, through the Virgin Mary. But if you would consider the blessing of Judah, you would perceive what I say. For the seed is divided from Jacob, and comes down through Judah, and Phares, and Jesse, and David. And this was a symbol of the fact that some of your nation would be found children of Abraham, and found, too, in the lot of Christ; but that others, who are indeed children of Abraham, would be like the sand on the sea-shore, barren and fruitless, much in quantity, and without number indeed, but bearing no fruit whatever, and only drinking the water of the sea. And a vast multitude in your nation are convicted of being of this kind, imbibing doctrines of bitterness and godlessness, but spurning the word of God.

Barabus Epistle – Part 2
Chap. XIII. — Christians, and Not Jews, the Heirs of the Covenant.

But let us see if this people134 is the heir, or the former, and if the covenant belongs to us or to them. Hear ye now what the Scripture saith concerning the people. Isaac prayed for Rebecca his wife, because she was barren; and she conceived. (Gen_25:21) Furthermore also, Rebecca went forth to inquire of the Lord; and the Lord said to her, “Two nations are in thy womb, and two peoples in thy belly; and the one people shall surpass the other, and the elder shall serve the younger.” (Gen_25:23) You ought to understand who was Isaac, who Rebecca, and concerning what persons He declared that this people should be greater than that. And in another prophecy Jacob speaks more clearly to his son Joseph, saying, “Behold, the Lord hath not deprived me of thy presence; bring thy sons to me, that I may bless them.” (Gen_48:11, Gen_48:9) And he brought Manasseh and Ephraim, desiring that Manasseh135 should be blessed, because he was the elder. With this view Joseph led him to the right hand of his father Jacob. But Jacob saw in spirit the type of the people to arise afterwards. And what says [the Scripture]? And Jacob changed the direction of his bands, and laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, the second and younger, and blessed him. And Joseph said to Jacob, “Transfer thy right hand to the head of Manasseh,135 for he is my first-born son.” (Gen_48:18) And Jacob said, “I know it, my son, I know it; but the elder shall serve the younger: yet he also shall be blessed.” (Gen_48:19) Ye see on whom he laid136 [his hands], that this people should be first, and heir of the covenant. If then, still further, the same thing was intimated through Abraham, we reach the perfection of our knowledge. What, then, says He to Abraham? “Because thou hast believed,137 it is imputed to thee for righteousness: behold, I have made thee the father of those nations who believe in the Lord while in [a state of] uncircumcision.” (Gen_15:6, Gen_17:5; comp. Rom_4:3)
 
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JSRG

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Blessings Brothers and Sisters,

Does anyone have articles or links they can send me on the early Church’s’ interpretation of Romans 9? What I have found thus far is the early Church did not look at Romans 9 in a double predestination sense. I have not found many articles though, very few actually. Can anybody provide me their knowledge or links to papers and articles?

Thank you in advance!
This could be useful:

This book ("Ancient Christian Commentaries on Scripture: Romans") is a collection of various commentaries on every verse of Romans. Basically, it'll give you the verse, then several notes from early Christian writers for that verse. Some are taken from full-on commentaries of Romans whereas others are from people who just made comments on specific portions but not the whole thing. While this is for Romans as a whole, it obviously does include comments for Romans 9.

It's not exactly perfect for what you're asking. Because it's for every verse, to be able to fit it all into one book (remember some of these commentaries, if included in their entirety, would be book-length themselves) there are various abridgments and not every commentary on a particular verse will be featured for every verse. For example, Romans 9:1 features comments from Origen, Pelagius, and Gennadius of Constantiople. But other writers did write about that verse in commentaries, like Ambrosiaster or Chrysostom, are not included for that verse (though they are included for some other verses, e.g. 9:5 has Origen, Ambrosiaster, Augustine, Pelagius, and Cyril of Alexandria). So while it does have some decent information, it is--for obvious necessity of space--not going to include everyone's full comments on every part of Romans 9, and it's of course the editor's discretion as to what gets in. Still, it could be a useful resource.

In regards to double predestination, I do not think there is anyone in the early Church who clearly affirmed it. Some say Augustine believed in the doctrine later in his life, but others deny he affirmed double predestination; at the very least he was ambiguous enough on the subject that people can draw different conclusions, so I would say he does not clearly affirm it either.
 
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