Romans 8:29-30

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

what do you believe the meaning of this portion of scripture is? And do you look at forknew from a God foreloved perspective or something else? I have a view on this section of scripture as well but I’m curious about other positions on it. Seems like no one agrees on it

 

[Fish14]

I believe it means God literally foreknew who would choose to believe in Jesus and predestined those to be Christians. This way salvation can include both free will and God's decision. But this is only my opinion and I am not sure about it.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

I believe it means God literally foreknew who would choose to believe in Jesus and predestined those to be Christians. This way salvation can include both free will and God's decision. But this is only my opinion and I am not sure about it.

That’s my take on it. I look at people like cornilious and how God went out of his way to show him acts 2:38 through peter but he didn’t do that with all gentiles. Seems as if God knew cornilious would accept it so he made sure he heard it.

 

[Fish14]

That’s my take on it. I look at people like cornilious and how God went out of his way to show him acts 2:38 through peter but he didn’t do that with all gentiles.

So, for example in the case of Cornelius, I believe he would have accepted Jesus anyway so God helped him in the decision.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

So, for example in the case of Cornelius, I believe he would have accepted Jesus anyway so God helped him de the din the decision.

Eh idk if I would go that far. Cornilious was praying, fasting but clearly he didn’t know about repentance, baptism and Holy Ghost reception. When you read about it in acts 10 peter had to preach it to them before he made the choice. Only Jews were at pentocost when peter preached acts 2:38 so how would cornilious the gentile know without peter or a witness visiting him? And why him out of all the Gentiles? God knew something the foreknew plays a big factor here.

 

[Call me Nic]

Christ is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world (Revelation 13:8). So, all who were to ever be saved by God were predestined to be conformed to the image of God's Son (Romans 8:28-29). God knows all who are his children and always has (1 Peter 1:2). God hasn't predestined or chosen who will or will not be saved, because Christ died for all men to be saved (1 Timothy 4:10, Romans 5:18). The gift of God is a gift offered to all men freely (John 3:16); men choose whether to accept it or not (John 3:18), but God simply knows everyone who will ever accept it, and those who do accept it are predestined to be brought together in Christ (Ephesians 1:10) and to be conformed to his image (Ephesians 1:4-5) - they're predestined to the inheritance of God, which is eternal life (Ephesians 1:11). That's all.

 

[JESUS=G.O.A.T]

Christ is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world (Revelation 13:8). So, all who were to ever be saved by God were predestined to be conformed to the image of God's Son (Romans 8:28-29). God knows all who are his children and always has (1 Peter 1:2). God hasn't predestined or chosen who will or will not be saved, because Christ died for all men to be saved (1 Timothy 4:10, Romans 5:18). The gift of God is a gift offered to all men freely (John 3:16); men choose whether to accept it or not (John 3:18), but God simply knows everyone who will ever accept it, and those who do accept it are predestined to be brought together in Christ and to be conformed to his image (Ephesians 1:4-5) - they're predestined to the inheritance of God, which is eternal life (Ephesians 1:11). That's all.

Well that’s a better explanation of what I was trying to say haha appreciate the reply

 

[Call me Nic]

Well that’s a better explanation of what I was trying to say haha appreciate the reply

You're very welcome. It was happenstance that you made this thread because I had just been going over this very subject with a Calvinist friend of mine, and I had to sit down for a few hours and find all the scriptures I could relating to this subject, and compare them all to see what the truth was of predestination and election, so I saw this and got excited to be able to write the answer I found fresh out of the oven.

 

[Doug Melven]

You're very welcome. It was happenstance that you made this thread because I had just been going over this very subject with a Calvinist friend of mine, and I had to sit down for a few hours and find all the scriptures I could relating to this subject, and compare them all to see what the truth was of predestination and election, so I saw this and got excited to be able to write the answer I found fresh out of the oven.

It is great to hear people saying why they believe what they believe: because they studied Scripture.
Some are just quoting what they see in books written by mere men, not Scripture.

 

[faroukfarouk]

So, for example in the case of Cornelius, I believe he would have accepted Jesus anyway so God helped him in the decision.

FYI, compare Acts 16.14: 'Lydia, whose heart the Lord opened'.

 

[Fish14]

God hasn't predestined or chosen who will or will not be saved, because Christ died for all men to be saved (1 Timothy 4:10, Romans 5:18). The gift of God is a gift offered to all men freely (John 3:16); men choose whether to accept it or not (John 3:18)

Do you believe that Christ actually died for the sins of everybody. I believe He foreknew who would believe and died only for those.

 

[Fish14]

FYI, compare Acts 16.14: 'Lydia, whose heart the Lord opened'.

How do you interpret that? Did God choose Lydia to be saved or is this free will?

 

[faroukfarouk]

How do you interpret that? Did God choose Lydia to be saved or is this free will?

From the passage, we should answer the question: Whose work was it?

 

[Fish14]

From the passage, we should answer the question: Whose work was it?

God's of course, but shouldn't it be our decision?

 

[Call me Nic]

Do you believe that Christ actually died for the sins of everybody. I believe He foreknew who would believe and died only for those.

Of course the Lord foreknew who would believe on him and be saved according to 1 Peter 1:1-2, but when he was upon the cross, he bore the sins of the entire world upon him (2 Corinthians 5:21, Romans 5:18, 1 Timothy 4:10), so that all who would believe on him were given eternal life - it was a gift freely offered to all men as all of man's sins were accounted unto Jesus. Think about it this way: Christ dying on the cross paid the price in full for the sins of all men who have ever lived, the only problem is that some men choose not to accept that free gift by faith, and so their sins are likewise accounted unto their own soul and not accounted unto the blood of Christ. It's like if I buy a gift for you, than that gift is bought and paid for, and is for you and you alone; but when I try to give it to you, you reject it. It's still your gift that is freely offered, but you chose not to accept it, therefore it is not yours to own and have. Same thing with salvation - it's freely offered to any and all men because their debt is already paid for, the only thing they must do is accept the offer.

 

[Fish14]

Of course the Lord foreknew who would believe on him and be saved according to 1 Peter 1:1-2, but when he was upon the cross, he bore the sins of the entire world upon him (2 Corinthians 5:21, Romans 5:18, 1 Timothy 4:10), so that all who would believe on him were given eternal life - it was a gift freely offered to all men as all of man's sins were accounted unto Jesus. Think about it this way: Christ dying on the cross paid the price in full for the sins of all men who have ever lived, the only problem is that some men choose not to accept that free gift by faith, and so their sins are likewise accounted unto their own soul and not accounted unto the blood of Christ. It's like if I buy a gift for you, than that gift is bought and paid for, and is for you and you alone; but when I try to give it to you, you reject it. It's still your gift that is freely offered, but you chose not to accept it, therefore it is not yours to own and have. Same thing with salvation - it's freely offered to any and all men because their debt is already paid for, the only thing they must do is accept the offer.

If Jesus dies for someone, that is giving the gift, not the gift itself. I think no one can deny Jesus dying for them if He has done it for them. I could compare it to this: If I choose to pay the debt on your bank account and I do it, it is paid no matter if you accept it or not.

 

[Call me Nic]

If Jesus dies for someone, that is giving the gift, not the gift itself. I think no one can deny Jesus dying for them if He has done it for them. I could compare it to this: If I choose to pay the debt on your bank account and I do it, it is paid no matter if you accept it or not.

No, the giving of the gift is when you're presented with the information of the gospel and you choose whether or not to accept it - the gift itself is the atoning sacrifice of Jesus. Salvation comes about when one believes on Jesus in their heart, and confesses with the mouth - you're saying that God chooses who to save, which is not true, God gives the gift of salvation anytime someone is presented with the gospel, and that person chooses to accept or not. The language in scripture is clear - if God didn't die for everyone, then you have to find a way around the scripture I posted that clearly said he did. "The savior of all men, specially of those who believe." Emphasizing the fact that Christ died for all men to be saved, but only those who believe it are the heirs of God. God doesn't pick and choose who will believe, we choose whether we want to believe in Christ. He simply knows already all who will ever accept his gift. "Whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." That is very implicative language that everyone has a choice of whether to believe or not. He didn't say, "Whosoever I call that believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

 

[Call me Nic]

No, the giving of the gift is when you're presented with the information of the gospel and you choose whether or not to accept it - the gift itself is the atoning sacrifice of Jesus. Salvation comes about when one believes on Jesus in their heart, and confesses with the mouth - you're saying that God chooses who to save, which is not true, God gives the gift of salvation anytime someone is presented with the gospel, and that person chooses to accept or not. The language in scripture is clear - if God didn't die for everyone, then you have to find a way around the scripture I posted that clearly said he did. "The savior of all men, specially of those who believe." Emphasizing the fact that Christ died for all men to be saved, but only those who believe it are the heirs of God. God doesn't pick and choose who will believe, we choose whether we want to believe in Christ. He simply knows already all who will ever accept his gift. "Whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." That is very implicative language that everyone has a choice of whether to believe or not. He didn't say, "Whosoever I call that believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

I fixed the language I used that said, "pick and choose who will go to heaven" to "pick and choose who will believe" because that's the core issue here. Heaven is God's, so God will obviously choose who is worthy or not to enter into heaven. He's decided all are unworthy except Christ, which is why he gives us the choice to believe and have the righteousness of Jesus as our justification.

 

[Almost there]

As an adherent to CI, I see it as tying into the message in Ecclesiastes. We are all designed, individually, for a purpose. If your destiny, as designed, is to be pharaoh, well, you enjoyed the gift of life and what you did with it until you die. And then you die. Twice. First your flesh and then your soul.