Roman church errors and inventions

Philothei · Jan 21, 2010

As is often the case we should take our own advice, especialy about complaining, but on the other hand we could well afford to dwell on the crimes & mistakes of our past long enough to own them, instead of pretending they're over simply because some time has passed.
<snip>

And we can be selective about them too .... I mean both parties did crimes that is the fact. There was always contraversy so what is the point?

It was presented here and was discussed...Rehashing this "grievances" would do what for our Christian community in general...I would really be curious to see what it will benefit us...

Rick Otto · Jan 21, 2010

quote=Philothei; And we can be selective about them too .... I mean both parties did crimes that is the fact. There was always contraversy so what is the point?

Opportunity for both repentance & forgiveness... isn't that obvious?

It was presented here and was discussed...Rehashing this "grievances" would do what for our Christian community in general...I would really be curious to see what it will benefit us...

Well, I suspect the experience will only provide what we can afford to bring to it.

Albion · Jan 21, 2010

LittleLambofJesus said:
Wow! This thread is really getting along.

I think it may be about time to go thru all 80+ pages and 830+ posts and draw up a list from all those that posted and consolidate them into 1 post.

[Anyone wanna help?]

These are just a few from the first page

http://www.christianforums.com/t6870602/#post43628489

Scholasticism
Filioque
Papal Supremacy
Immaculate Conception

http://www.christianforums.com/t6870602/#post43630346

Inventions:
-Infallability of the Pope
-Papal supremacy
-Immaculate coneption
-purgatory
Errors:
-Vatican I and II(not the councells but their decisions....although II was worse than I)
-indulgencies
-crusades
-Vatican City.... (never should have been a "seperate state"but goes hand in hand with the Papal supreority)

I can't imagine how any would argue that Vatican II was "worse" than Vatican I, but anyway, thanks for recapping, LLOJ. Doing so helps to keep any lengthy thread on topic, although it's usually the case that no one takes the time to do it.

Thekla · Jan 21, 2010

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjYrnpLijDs

Zeena · Jan 21, 2010

Philothei said:
I agree but what is the point of holding a vendetta ?? ARe we the mafia or somethin'?

Accountability is key, if there is no accountability to society as a whole, society as a whole suffers.

Philothei said:
I mean does it matter that you grand---grand---grand ---grand father in 300-500 years ago killed or stoned etc. your ancestors....

Of course it matters!

Philothei said:
I think with this logic we should allow for lots of peoples that the British/ Dutch/Spaniards did wrong have them also go after them and ask them to be responsible???

If someone or some organisation did something wrong, according to societal standards, they aught to be held responsable, according to societal standards. Othersie society cannot stand!

Philothei said:
How do you propose we go against crimes commited by a church AGAIN as they have already asked for pardon?

Money speaks volumes, as does servitute for the sake of building up what was once torn down.

PLEASE don't misconstrude my speach to mean that people in societies should hold grudges. But rather, perpetrators of crimes aught to be punished accordingly, so that society, as a whole, may heal.

Let's put it this way;

If you see news of a horrendous crime and the judge let's off the perpetraitor with a slap on the wrist, even tho he has been found guilty, even according to his plea, would you not be appauled?

boswd · Jan 21, 2010

Rick Otto said:
I hit it every time a troll shows up.

Your comments were directed at people like me, and it isn't you that I'm so interested in. My interest is in exposing your motives.

I have a true side? You flatter me. (lol)

Not you.

So Rick how is everything going? How's the family?

Missed you around here.
Glad to have you back

bbbbbbb · Jan 21, 2010

boswd said:
Never put you on the same plane as JPII.

Just stating as someone who "thinks" he know everything about the Catholic Church making a statement that it is not in the nature of the Catholic Church to apologize for anything, how could someone as so knowledgable about the Catholic Church as yourself not know of or remember Pope John Paul's apology.
I mean it was quite well covered by all sorts of media outlets.

Please show me where I ever claimed to know everything about the Catholic Church or even my own church. Also, I am most impressed with your psychic ability to read my mind. Unfortunately, I think you are reading someone else's mind. For a chap who can't even get the founder of Rhode Island correct, I must confess that as time has gone on I have learned more and more about less and less until I think I am approaching a point where I will know absolutely everything about nothing.

Rick Otto · Jan 21, 2010

quote=boswd;So Rick how is everything going? How's the family?

Couldn't be better, thanks for asking... & yours?

Missed you around here.
Glad to have you back

Likewise. Couldn't wait to get back to enjoying your company.

bbbbbbb · Jan 21, 2010

boswd said:
Woo HOo let me go dig up some crazy Puritans torturing their own parishers and burning people alive.

Yeah let's keep it going bbbbbbb

You know what? I am going to adopt your mentality. England used to rule over us with an Iron Fist.

I will now NEVER let that go.

I now HATE ENGLAND.

Yeah let's keep it going bbbbbbb

Let's keep the hate alive and never let it go. NEVER.

Well, at least England was not granted North America by divine fiat. However, to your point I think you would much enjoy posting on LLoJ's Errors of Protstism thread. I will remind you that the OP invites discussion of these very topics and I am merely posting documentation of them with very little personal commentary. Make of it what you wish. I hope you enjoyed the artwork as much as I did.

boswd · Jan 21, 2010

Rick Otto said:
Couldn't be better, thanks for asking... & yours?

Likewise. Couldn't wait to get back to enjoying your company.

going good, going good The wife is making me sit through Project Runway but besides that just great.

. Just trying to survive the winter.

Philothei · Jan 21, 2010

Or the Spartan way of argument....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M54jSBuz_HI&feature=related

Women though were the ultimate authority in the argument and war just like it always has been...LOL...

bbbbbbb · Jan 21, 2010

boswd said:
for how long though? The stuff bbbbbb brings up are centuries old.

Should African Americans keep hating the US because of Slavery?

Should we keep hating England because of the treatment of the colony's?

When does it end?

How long are we to keep bringing up and holding others to crimes of the past.

Why aren't we demanding other Protestants that come from a Puritan background hold them accountable for all the sins their ancestors made.

At some point Zeena you have to move on.

Sadly, although time has gone on these bulls have never been repealed or recanted and are just as valid today as when they were first issued. It would be an entirely different matter if, say, at the beginning of the Irish Revolution the Pope had issued a bull renouncing the one cited and saying that England no longer could rule Ireland. It certainly would have saved a lot of lives, even to this very day.

Zeena · Jan 21, 2010

bbbbbbb said:
Sadly, although time has gone on these bulls have never been repealed or recanted and are just as valid today as when they were first issued. It would be an entirely different matter if, say, at the beginning of the Irish Revolution the Pope had issued a bull renouncing the one cited and saying that England no longer could rule Ireland. It certainly would have saved a lot of lives, even to this very day.

Repealing the bulls would be a good start.

Philothei · Jan 21, 2010

Zeena said:
Accountability is key, if there is no accountability to society as a whole, society as a whole suffers.

Of course it matters!

If someone or some organisation did something wrong, according to societal standards, they aught to be held responsable, according to societal standards. Othersie society cannot stand!

Money speaks volumes, as does servitute for the sake of building up what was once torn down.

PLEASE don't misconstrude my speach to mean that people in societies should hold grudges. But rather, perpetrators of crimes aught to be punished accordingly, so that society, as a whole, may heal.

Let's put it this way;

If you see news of a horrendous crime and the judge let's off the perpetraitor with a slap on the wrist, even tho he has been found guilty, even according to his plea, would you not be appauled?

Ok so we know apologies have been exchanged...I say time to move on

Zeena · Jan 21, 2010

Philothei said:
Ok so we know apologies have been exchanged...I say time to move on

Appologies do not repartition make.

Philothei · Jan 21, 2010

So what do you suggest we do?

Philothei · Jan 21, 2010

"The one without sin throw the first stone"...that just comes to mind

Zeena · Jan 21, 2010

Philothei said:
So what do you suggest we do?

What the Lord instructs us to do in His Word, and by His Spirit;

Matthew 5:23-25
Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.

Luke 19:8-9
And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord: Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold. And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.

boswd · Jan 21, 2010

Zeena said:
Appologies do not repartition make.

. Was it waaay over due? sure, were there bad Popes? again sure. I think you would be hard pressed to find even the most devout Catholic not admit that.

By JPII even issuing a formal public apology he is saying they made horrible mistakes.

This is what he did. Take it for what you will. I think what he did was humbling, he didn't have to do it but he did.

So accept and felt it was a big first step toward healing old wounds.
Others just won't let it go and never will.

But the purpose of my 'ranting" is ALL of our Christian heritage have performed horrible acts throughout history Catholics, Calvinst, Orthodox everyone. To single out one Christian Faith all the while ignoring our own skeletons is very hypocritical.

Apologies by Pope John Paul II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Zeena · Jan 21, 2010

Philothei said:
"The one without sin throw the first stone"...that just comes to mind

Should we not confess our sins to one another, that we may be made whole?

Roman church errors and inventions

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