Roles in Worship

[seeingeyes]

In my church, it probably is the case that everyone who has a talent gets to use it (although not all those mentioned in Corinthians), but I'm reluctant to say that churches that are more formal are somehow doing wrong. The early church apparently was quite freewheeling before it settled into a more programmed format for worship.

Does your church have that 'freewheeling' aspect outside of formal worship?

 

[motherprayer]

This is such an awesome topic.

Personally, I've found in many churches that there are about a gazillion steps to take before one can actually use their talents inside of church.

Like:
Step 1: Start attending regularly.
Step 2: Get comfortable (this can be hard)
Step 3: Join the church - which, in some cases, can have a billion steps of its own.
Step 4: (NOTE: POSSIBLY THE MOST IMPORTANT) Work to create a favorable position with church leaders.
Step 5: MAINTAIN a favorable position with church leaders.
Step 6: Apply.

And so on, with little steps in between those also. For some churches, the actual first step to have any place in worship is: Be born male. sorry


Thankfully, some churches are less formal than that.

 

[Albion]

Does your church have that 'freewheeling' aspect outside of formal worship?

No, and it's not nearly as freewheeling as some other churches. Yet I am able to give credit to the church for working into the worship service as many of the talents of the congregants as a structured service can accomodate. We have to also bear in mind that some of those actions mentioned in scripture are not part of our worship, tongues having ceased, etc.

 

[seeingeyes]

This is such an awesome topic.

Personally, I've found in many churches that there are about a gazillion steps to take before one can actually use their talents inside of church.

Like:
Step 1: Start attending regularly.
Step 2: Get comfortable (this can be hard)
Step 3: Join the church - which, in some cases, can have a billion steps of its own.
Step 4: (NOTE: POSSIBLY THE MOST IMPORTANT) Work to create a favorable position with church leaders.
Step 5: MAINTAIN a favorable position with church leaders.
Step 6: Apply.

And so on, with little steps in between those also. For some churches, the actual first step to have any place in worship is: Be born male. sorry


Thankfully, some churches are less formal than that.

This has been my experience, too. Don't forget the step of 'being called' to leadership. Even being a man isn't good enough (though men are somehow 'more adept' at leadership), one must also have a specific word from God.

 

[motherprayer]

This has been my experience, too. Don't forget the step of 'being called' to leadership. Even being a man isn't good enough (though men are somehow 'more adept' at leadership), one must also have a specific word from God.

Yea, I'm not sure I understand that. Funny, most churches do that to 'protect' themselves, but I'm not sure from what?

Like, in my church, which calls itself Baptist but our Pastor openly says he doesn't agree with all of Baptist theology, anyone who desires to serve is given a place, no formalities, no politics, just "what do you want to do?" And then "Okay do it." It has worked very well for our congregation.

 

[seeingeyes]

No, and it's not nearly as freewheeling as some other churches. Yet I am able to give credit to the church for working into the worship service as many of the talents of the congregants as a structured service can accomodate. We have to also bear in mind that some of those actions mentioned in scripture are not part of our worship, tongues having ceased, etc.

Which spiritual gifts do you feel are demonstrated in your congregation? (I mean, if you had to make a list.)

I find that churches tend to encourage certain gifts in all the people without regard to their 'giftedness' in that area. For example, we encourage 'giving' or 'prayer' without recognition that some people are, in fact, (and should be) better at these things than others.

And then make no space for other gifts at all (prophecy, for example).

This seems a recipe for folks to feel that they have no place in the church (either because they don't strongly have a gift that is strongly encouraged for all, or because they have a gift that is unrecognized.) And that is exactly what we are seeing today.

 

[seeingeyes]

Yea, I'm not sure I understand that. Funny, most churches do that to 'protect' themselves, but I'm not sure from what?

Like, in my church, which calls itself Baptist but our Pastor openly says he doesn't agree with all of Baptist theology, anyone who desires to serve is given a place, no formalities, no politics, just "what do you want to do?" And then "Okay do it." It has worked very well for our congregation.

Ahh. 'Protection' is exactly it. Policies must be enacted and followed to the letter for fear of reprisal. For fear of false teachings. For fear of iniquity or condemnation. For fear.

 

[Albion]

Which spiritual gifts do you feel are demonstrated in your congregation? (I mean, if you had to make a list.)

I find that churches tend to encourage certain gifts in all the people without regard to their 'giftedness' in that area. For example, we encourage 'giving' or 'prayer' without recognition that some people are, in fact, (and should be) better at these things than others.

And then make no space for other gifts at all (prophecy, for example).

Hmmm. Well, I was reacting to the verse you started us off with:

"What then, brothers? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for building up." (1 Cor 14:26)

and the question you asked afterwards:

Do you see this dynamic in your church/small group/gathering? How important do you think it is for 'each one' to contribute?

In my church we do seem to make use of the talents of a lot of different people...who do indeed have those abilities and are not just thinking they'd like to be a musician, etc. That would include music, preaching, teaching, and such.

And no, we similarly do not give a stage to anyone who thinks he's been gifted with one of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit and feels the need to demonstrate it in church. I don't think we have anyone like that, however.

 

[seeingeyes]

Hmmm. Well, I was reacting to the verse you started us off with:

and the question you asked afterwards:



In my church we do seem to make use of the talents of a lot of different people...who do indeed have those abilities and are not just thinking they'd like to be a musician, etc. That would include music, preaching, teaching, and such.

Don't feel limited by the OP. It's quite a far-ranging topic.

And no, we similarly do not give a stage to anyone who thinks he's been gifted with one of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit and feels the need to demonstrate it in church. I don't think we have anyone like that, however.

It's kinda interesting how you worded this. How would your church differentiate between someone who has been given a gift of the Holy Spirit, and one who only thinks he has? I mean, surely your church 'gives a stage' to some people, the pastor for example. How is it determined who 'gets a stage' and who doesn't (either in formal worship or elsewhere)?

 

[Albion]

It's kinda interesting how you worded this. How would your church differentiate between someone who has been given a gift of the Holy Spirit, and one who only thinks he has? I mean, surely your church 'gives a stage' to some people, the pastor for example. How is it determined who 'gets a stage' and who doesn't (either in formal worship or elsewhere)?

For one thing, all the functions I mentioned are compatible with liturgical worship. Extemporaneous testifying, words of knowledge, glossolalia, or the like is not.

 

[seeingeyes]

For one thing, all the functions I mentioned are compatible with liturgical worship. Extemporaneous testifying, words of knowledge, glossolalia, or the like is not.

I don't see how such things would be inherently incompatible with liturgical worship, and the witness of Paul seems to testify that such things were present (and welcome) in the early church and then phased out later on.

It is one thing to say that 'formal worship' is not wrong, and it is quite another to say that 'formal worship' is right. What do you feel would be lost by including, say, words of knowledge into the 'formal worship' repertoire?

 

[motherprayer]

Ahh. 'Protection' is exactly it. Policies must be enacted and followed to the letter for fear of reprisal. For fear of false teachings. For fear of iniquity or condemnation. For fear.

Ah but perfect love casts out fear. I think maybe church leaders should not fear the people, but love them as Christ does, with admonishment and correction along with comfort, and maybe they would have less to fear themselves

 

[Albion]

I don't see how such things would be inherently incompatible with liturgical worship, and the witness of Paul seems to testify that such things were present (and welcome) in the early church and then phased out later on.

It is one thing to say that 'formal worship' is not wrong, and it is quite another to say that 'formal worship' is right. What do you feel would be lost by including, say, words of knowledge into the 'formal worship' repertoire?

I am aware that you come from a different religious background. I was merely saying -- when the topic came up -- that my church does a better job of including in our worship services the talents of more of the members than might be expected from a liturgical church.

 

[seeingeyes]

I am aware that you come from a different religious background. I was merely saying -- when the topic came up -- that my church does a better job of including in our worship services the talents of more of the members than might be expected from a liturgical church.

Ok, I gotcha.

It's true that I'm painting with a broad brush based on my own history. But the type of church that I've come from also happen to be influencing a rather loud segment of Christianity here in the States, so I figured others would have a similar experience.

I hope I haven't come across as 'accusing' the church at large. I just wanted to examine our practices.

God bless