Role of Mary

[2Bhumble]

Which holds more authority, the Bible or Holy Tradition? Tradition is OK, but sometimes it's wrong. Just because people have done it this way or believed this way for a long time doesn't mean they are right.

Amen abby! Tradition is man-made. Trying please God in their own way through tradition. Christ took all that away. John 5 talks all about that. Jesus healed the man and told him to get up and walk on the Sabbath. The Jews hated to see that happen because it was breaking tradition. Breaking the "rules". Jesus wants us to have faith in Him not follow tradition.

 

[CrystalBrooke]

oh yeah, we completely make these things up on our own, in fact we dont even read a bible....tradition comes from the bible.

 

[SumTinWong]

Crystal, when did you become a Catholic? Weren't you a member of the Baptist forum a few months ago?

 

[Oblio]

Amen abby! Tradition is man-made. Trying please God in their own way through tradition. Christ took all that away. John 5 talks all about that. Jesus healed the man and told him to get up and walk on the Sabbath. The Jews hated to see that happen because it was breaking tradition. Breaking the "rules". Jesus wants us to have faith in Him not follow tradition.

The Holy Apostle Paul disagrees with you:

Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
(2Th 2:15 KJVA)

John 5 does not speak of the Tradition of the Church, but of the Pharisees, devoid of the Holy Spirit in guidance. This is why their traditions are spoken of as 'of men'. The Traditions of the Church are 'of God'.

 

[2Bhumble]

2 Thes 2:13-15 (NIV) "13 But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth. 14 He called you to this through our gospel, that you might share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings[3] we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter."

These traditions (KJV) or teachings (NIV) are of the Good News of Christ to be followed.

 

[Oblio]

And the life of the Theotokos and her ability to pray for us on our behalf is part of the Gospel message. In addition, St. Paul specifically mentions 'by word' to the Church.

 

[PaladinValer]

Nestorianism is condemned as heresy; St. Mary is both Christokos and Theotokos!

Council of Chalcedon, 451 A.D., Act V

Therefore, following the holy fathers, we all with one accord teach men
to acknowledge one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, at once
complete in Godhead and complete in manhood, truly God and truly man,
consisting also of a reasonable soul and body; of one substance
(homoousios) with the Father as regards his Godhead, and at the same
time of one substance with us as regards his manhood; like us in all
respects, apart from sin; as regards his Godhead, begotten of the Father
before the ages, but yet as regards his manhood begotten, for us men and
for our salvation, of Mary the Virgin, the God-bearer (Theotokos); one
and the same Christ, Son, Lord, Only-begotten, recognized in two
natures, without confusion, without change, without division, without
separation; the distinction of natures being in no way annulled by the
union, but rather the characteristics of each nature being preserved and
coming together to form one person and subsistence, not as parted or
separated into two persons, but one and the same Son and Only-begotten
God the Word, Lord Jesus Christ; even as the prophets from earliest
times spoke of him, and our Lord Jesus Christ himself taught us, and the
creed of the Fathers has handed down to us.

-Taken from http://holycross-raleigh.org/bcp/864.html (online Book of Common Prayer)

 

[BjBarnett]

for the people that said we made up sacred tradition and stuff then you are effectivly saying the bible was made up. Sacred Tradition is what the bible came from. how do you think the people knew what to canonize? they had sacred tradition for 4 century's before the bible came along. so if our sacred tradition is made up the bible is too.... but our tradition came from God himself so I dont think it was made up. Just like the bible came from God himself. The gospel according to john says that not everything jesus done was written down. so obiviously the bible does not contain everything. that doesnt mean that we shouldnt know the other stuff that jesus done and taught. we have sacred tradition to pick up where the bible doesnt venture. I like to think of the bible as

Basic
Intructions
Before
Leaving
Earth


its the basics but not everything...

 

[thereselittleflower]

Like I said, some people translate it as mother/son, some as wife/husband. I see it the latter way, but you have the right to see it the former.

Yeah .. I can just imagine it . . a 50 year old woman being taken as the wife of a young man among the Jewish people . .


No . . I don't think so . ..


John was very much so young enough to be accepted as her son, there is nothing to indicate either in scripture or tradition that anything else happened.

And your interpretation, which is grossly suggestive to our ears and eyes, flies is direct contradiction to the rest of the verse:

"Woman behold thy son"

G5207

υἱός

uihos

hwee-os'

Apparently a primary word; a "son" (sometimes of animals), used very widely of immediate, remote or figurative kinship: - child, foal, son.

​

Nothing about being a husband in there is there?


You said sometimes people translate it as wife/husband?


There is NO legitimate translator of Greek who would ever consider translating it that way . . "husband" is completely unsupported by the text.



Next time, before posting something as outlandish and as that, take time to look at the WHOLE picture . .



Peace in Him!

 

[abbygirlforever]

What exactly do you mean by "grossly suggestive"? Are you implying that I was hinting at something degrading, disgusting, or indecent??

 

[Svt4Him]

I think the problem that many Protestants have is that while they agree about her being the chosen one to be mother to the Christ they often see her as only human afterwards and having no special purpose. They also don't believe that she was like Elijah taken into heaven without dying. I'm not sure but I believe Catholic tradition supports this but scripture is silent about what happened to her.

Actually I see her as only human before as well. We can all say she's great, and I agree. But I have a friend who listened to God, sold his business and is now a missionary to Ukraine. Equally great. Another who was almost killed for Christ. Any less great?

 

[PaladinValer]

Being chosen to bear God the Son? That's more than great, that's priceless!

 

[Oblio]

But I have a friend who listened to God, sold his business and is now a missionary to Ukraine. Equally great.

Considering the mission of many Protestants in Ukraine, I would have my doubts on that alone.

Mary the Theotokos is more honorable than the Cherubim and more glorious beyond compare than the Seraphim. We have Scripture that states that she is Blessed among women for she has born the saviour of our souls. With all due respect to your friend, I don't think that he is at her level, nor is he with Christ in heaven.

 

[thereselittleflower]

What exactly do you mean by "grossly suggestive"? Are you implying that I was hinting at something degrading, disgusting, or indecent??

Let me say it is offensive to Catholics and Orthodox for even such a thing to be suggested. Not that you intended it to be. But you should be aware that it is.


Peace in Him!

 

[thereselittleflower]

Svt4Him

The bible does tell us that there will be least and great in heaven . .

Yes, I can easily believe that Mary will be greater than any of us.


Peace in Him!

 

[Richard]

well I voted Mother of God, but then I read it and she is the Mother of Jesus not God.

 

[Oblio]

well I voted Mother of God, but then I read it and she is the Mother of Jesus not God.

(Understanding that a Mother does not create her offspring)

Was Jesus God ?

 

[PaladinValer]

Toche

 

[katherine2001]

(Understanding that a Mother does not create her offspring)

Was Jesus God ?

Exactly. Was Jesus divine at the time of His conception, His birth, and throughout His life in the flesh? Was there ever a time that He was not divine?

 

[Svt4Him]

Svt4Him

The bible does tell us that there will be least and great in heaven . .

Yes, I can easily believe that Mary will be greater than any of us.


Peace in Him!

Oh right. And who exactly does it say will be the greatest?

Mary is blessed. But anyone else? Well, let's see what Jesus said:

3“Blessed are the poor in spirit,​

For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.​

4Blessed are those who mourn,​

For they shall be comforted.​

5Blessed are the meek,​

For they shall inherit the earth.​

6Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,​

For they shall be filled.​

7Blessed are the merciful,​

For they shall obtain mercy.​

8Blessed are the pure in heart,​

For they shall see God.​

9Blessed are the peacemakers,​

For they shall be called sons of God.​

10Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake,​

For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

And Oblio, assumption really is the lowest form of knowledge, but feel free to assume all you like.