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Nor did I assert such. My comments were in response to Oblio's statement that the title of "mother" speaks to the essence of who Jesus is. It would seem that you agree that this title does not in fact speak to the essence of who Jesus is because there are parts of his essence/nature that did not come from her.InnerPhyre said:Nor does your mother reflect the essence of your father that is now a part of you. You didn't come completely from your mother....neither did Jesus. Part of you came from your mom and part from your dad....Just like Jesus. That doesn't mean that your mother isn't the mother of the part of you that came from your father.
This has been discussed before, but I guess furthering relations only goes so far, or maybe it is primarily one-sided?Lollard said:While we are in the helping further relations mode it would do me a great honor if you would quite referring to anyone that is not CC or OC a protestant and spread that around as well.
So... Jesus' divinity originated in Mary's womb then. Because that's what you are saying.Ainesis said:She is, however, mother of all of Jesus who is fully God and fully man.
Jesus the Word, as divine, existed prior to Mary. However, Jesus incarnate was the Word made flesh. The Word was not made flesh until God did so by the Holy Ghost in Mary's womb. She carried this life as every mother would and bore into the world the manifestation of that life.St. Amadeus said:So... Jesus' divinity originated in Mary's womb then. Because that's what you are saying.
Yes, so how was he born into the world? Who is the one who bore Him?St. Amadeus said:God the Son, was born in Judea, in a lowely manger, among animals and filth, wrapped in rags. I mean, meditate on that. He entered the world in such lowely conditions, and not on accident. It was for a purpose.
Mary is not the mother of the Word, but she is the mother of Jesus. If she was not His mother, then who was she?
Yes, so how was he born into the world? Who is the one who bore Him?
Do you really mean that you believe he only became flesh in the process of being birthed versus forming flesh in her womb as any baby develops? Are we born into a human form or does God create us as human when we are conceived and we simply develop from there?St. Amadeus said:He was born into the world the same way any one of us are born into the world. From the womb of a human woman. That is how He became flesh. That is how He became human, by being born from a human, and being knit together in her womb.
Whoaa! That is a little too deep for me.St. Amadeus said:Most likely, the Holy Spirit miraculously caused her ovum to split, using the genetic material already found in the egg cell. But that's just MY theory.
St. Amadeus said:I'm sorry, but I can't answer such a contradiction.
Mary is not the mother of the Word, but she is the mother of Jesus.
Why? The Cathlic and Orthodox Church have never changed the defintion of Theotokos . .Ainesis said:Although I can appreciate what you are trying to say, I can only take your word for being representative of how you feel. It would be rather silly to think that you are speaking on behald of 1.4 billion people.
I am not the one who first brought up the idea of numbers . . I was responding to your assertion of "some" . .Additionally, large numbers are really not that significant. Afterall, broad is the way that leads to destruction and many will follow that path. That is not a comment about the 1.4 billion people you refer to (whomever they are), but it is simply an illustration of how massive numbers do not equate to Truth.
The council officialy decreed the word "THEOTOKOS" the English translation is "Mother of God" ..The council created the word "mother"?
However they want to . . like you have.How do you see these "protesters" defining the word "mother"?
Vets refer to them as b*tches - didn't you know that is where the slang term "b*tch" comes from? I assumed you did so did not explain, please accept my apologies . . because of its slang usage, I understand why people do not use it to refer to the female dog at home . . but it is the appropriate way to refer to one who has had pups . . .Actually, "we" don't. The mother of my dog Cooney is referred to as Cooney's mother. But to each his own.
ThanksI haven't seen anyone making that claim here tlf. Perhaps they have, but Ihaven't seen it. My only comments were about the title mother of God, and no, I do not agree with that.
I understand your position . . but here is a similar situation that might be easy to relate to especially in relation to this thread . .Which has actually been my point all along. I do not think that the title in question fully depicts that.
I was over broad in my comment . . many do, and that is what I should have said. Another comment you made later though does tie into this idea.Perhaps you are taking things just a little too personally. Why does someone disagreeing with this title mean in your mind that they are finding fault with any church? I understand what the title is meant to imply, and I agree with that implication. I do not agree that this title accurately reflects that intention on its face.
It helps to be clearer on where we are coming from, so thank you for sharing this.Some people may very well believe that. I do not, so I cannot answer for them. I do believe that Catholic veneration of Mary is beyond what is Scriptural, but I do not think that error is due to the title under discussion.
Perhaps it would help to not assume what someone is used to and is not used to as well .Then you may want to get used to having problems, because there will always be someone somewhere who doesn't see things the way you do. If we understood that, and further appreciated that such disagreement is not always personal, it may help to temper responses.
No, Jesus is the Word incarnate or the Word made flesh.Oblio said:Uh ....Jesus is the Word of God.
And saying that Jesus has one essence is monophysitism, or if you are niggling miaphysitism especially if you claim that his Divinity supercedes His humanity
Ainesis said:No, Jesus is the Word incarnate or the Word made flesh.
And inflammatory remarks like this are helpful??Ainesis said:This has been discussed before, but I guess furthering relations only goes so far, or maybe it is primarily one-sided?
Based on what? If there are Catholic priests who condone pedophilia and are teaching that this is okay, then should I assume that the rest of the 1.4 billion people are likewise taught?thereselittleflower said:I think you can be safe in accepting that the Church is teaching the same thing to all 1.4 billion people . .
You are offended by the word "some"?thereselittleflower said:I am not the one who first brought up the idea of numbers . . I was responding to your assertion of "some" . .
No. In terms of catholicism, I think they already have (IMO). However, even so, I do not think that is based on the use of this title.thereselittleflower said:ThanksBut there is that concern that it could move in that direction, am I right?
Not really. It is a matter of truth and what is representative of God's Truth.thereselittleflower said:But if I say I worship Mary and that word "worship" can have additional usages which you are unaware of, legitimate usages, that would not ascribe to Mary a position of divinity, but that would denote reverence properly due man without impinging on the worship due God alone, then I would be perfectly in my right to use it in that way, even if you didn't understand, and it would never mean what you think it means. .
It is a matter of perspective . .
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