Roadblocks on the way to Orthodoxy: Understanding the Atonement.

[Dorothea]

well, there is a separation, but it's a relational one, not a spacial one.

Ahhh...I've never thought about it that way or read it in that way before. That really clicked in my brain. Thanks, Matt!

 

[Loriella]

I really like your comment that the separation is relational, not physical, ArmyMatt. Thanks.

Thanks, Loriella Missed you and your DH at Divine Liturgy today.

Thanks. We're celebrating Fathers' Day with Joseph's family, and so, sadly, couldn't make it to DL.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I really like your comment that the separation is relational, not physical, ArmyMatt. Thanks.

Ahhh...I've never thought about it that way or read it in that way before. That really clicked in my brain. Thanks, Matt!

no probs guys, and welcome to TAW Loriella!

 

[Loriella]

welcome to TAW Loriella!

Thanks.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Well, hey, hope you guys had a great Father's Day! My parents, the kids, Kate, and I all celebrated it early yesterday. I'm a newbie and I fly out of bed anxious to take the Eucharist! You couldn't keep me away today!

I really like your comment that the separation is relational, not physical, ArmyMatt. Thanks.




Thanks. We're celebrating Fathers' Day with Joseph's family, and so, sadly, couldn't make it to DL.

 

[ProScribe]

It seems like every time I overcome one obstacle, another takes its place.

This week I have been pondering humanity and our condition, and how the atonement plays into it. In doing so I realized that the atonement doesn't make as much sense to me as I sometimes pretend it does.

Going chronologically, I wonder why God created the human being in such a way that his or her sins affect not only themselves, but their offspring as well. However this is not specific ony to Christianity, so I will move ahead.

Regardless of the denomination, Christians tend to believe that the things in life we call evil are a result of the sin of our first parents. When Eve and Adam sinned human beings entered into fallen state of existence. They no longer lived in the presence of God, and death became the inevitable final step in the mortal life.

My big struggle is understanding how Jesus dying and then overcoming death reverses this condition.

Many state that God, being perfect, cannot simply return us to our pre-fall glory because it would go against His perfect justice. As I write this I am having a very difficult time keeping my thoughts straight and making sense of the whole thing. Perhaps I am not as smart as I like to pretend I am. Please bear with me.

1. Man sins and becomes subject to the consequences of sin. (death, fallen disposition) Why do these consequences have to be passed on genetically?

2. Christ's death and resurrection destroys death and allows humanity to become healed. How does this work?

It seems like you would be searching for answers outside of Holy Scripture.

 

[Blonde]

No Proscribe, those answers he's looking for are in Scripture.

 

[truthseeker32]

My fiancee has become more open to exploring Orthodoxy with me. However I think that the issue of contraception may be an issue for her, and I am not sure how to handle it. She will be in graduate school for the next couple years, and having a child would be very difficult for her to manage. How do fathers typically handle such an issue?

 

[Dorothea]

My fiancee has become more open to exploring Orthodoxy with me. However I think that the issue of contraception may be an issue for her, and I am not sure how to handle it. She will be in graduate school for the next couple years, and having a child would be very difficult for her to manage. How do fathers typically handle such an issue?

It is an issue dealt with on a personal level between you, your fiancee and your priest. It's not that b&w, unless you're talking about abortion and methods like that.

 

[ArmyMatt]

My fiancee has become more open to exploring Orthodoxy with me. However I think that the issue of contraception may be an issue for her, and I am not sure how to handle it. She will be in graduate school for the next couple years, and having a child would be very difficult for her to manage. How do fathers typically handle such an issue?

something like this should be between you, her, and your spiritual father because there are often other circumstances that have to taken into account (aside from ones that would abort the baby).

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

If you were looking into Catholicism, contraception would REALLY be a stumbling block. I could write you a novel about how the Catholic view on contraception did so much harm to our marriage for a few years there. Thanks be to God we left that whole scene. It's awful.

Dorothea is dead-on right....talk to a priest. He, as your spiritual father, will know what to do. Orthodoxy believes in economia, not the one-size-fits-all harsh approach to this topic that Catholics believe in. If this issue is troubling you, don't let it. Just trust the Lord. Your priest will enlighten and guide you. The main issue that concerns most Orthodox priests is abortifacient methods like the pill. Barrier methods are more preferable really.

I really think you could save yourself some grief and go meet with the nearest Orthodox priest. Call him, arrange for a sit-down, ask him about being a catechuman, what the Orthodox Church believes about the issues bothering you, and see how he sounds to you.

You're really at the point you need to go meet with a priest.

My fiancee has become more open to exploring Orthodoxy with me. However I think that the issue of contraception may be an issue for her, and I am not sure how to handle it. She will be in graduate school for the next couple years, and having a child would be very difficult for her to manage. How do fathers typically handle such an issue?

 

[truthseeker32]

If you were looking into Catholicism, contraception would REALLY be a stumbling block. I could write you a novel about how the Catholic view on contraception did so much harm to our marriage for a few years there. Thanks be to God we left that whole scene. It's awful.

Care to elaborate? Most the Catholic couples I know seem quite happy in their marriages.

Dorothea is dead-on right....talk to a priest. He, as your spiritual father, will know what to do. Orthodoxy believes in economia, not the one-size-fits-all harsh approach to this topic that Catholics believe in. If this issue is troubling you, don't let it. Just trust the Lord. Your priest will enlighten and guide you. The main issue that concerns most Orthodox priests is abortifacient methods like the pill. Barrier methods are more preferable really.

I really think you could save yourself some grief and go meet with the nearest Orthodox priest. Call him, arrange for a sit-down, ask him about being a catechuman, what the Orthodox Church believes about the issues bothering you, and see how he sounds to you.

You're really at the point you need to go meet with a priest.

I've been meeting and talking with my priest for about a year now. He is just so busy, and two hours away, so our conversations aren't very frequent.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I'm not saying Catholics aren't happy in their marriages. I'm not saying my wife and I are unhappy in our marriage. I'm saying that natural family planning has a ton of downfalls and false promises and that it negatively impacted my wife and I in several ways. And as I talked openly and shared my story on other Catholic forums online, I got so so so many IM's and open thread stories, first hand accounts from people about their loathing for NFP and how it screwed up their marriage. One guy got so muffed up from it, it drove him to atheism and his wife and he are living in very sinful lifestyles. I have read many accounts of issues with NFP.

Also, take a look at how many Catholics actually use NFP and how many use birth control. It's amazingly weird and disturbing. Most Catholics you'll meet are using ABC.

And there are people who can have 15 kids and enjoy it. My wife and I are not the Duggars or whatever their names are.

Do I want to elaborate? Not really. If you want to talk about it, we can IM. I've talked about it before and am not wanting to rehash it in here.

Have you been talking to YOUR priest or an Orthodox one?

Care to elaborate? Most the Catholic couples I know seem quite happy in their marriages.

I've been meeting and talking with my priest for about a year now. He is just so busy, and two hours away, so our conversations aren't very frequent.

 

[truthseeker32]

Do I want to elaborate? Not really. If you want to talk about it, we can IM. I've talked about it before and am not wanting to rehash it in here.

I'll IM you on this one.

Have you been talking to YOUR priest or an Orthodox one?

They are one and the same. He is the priest at the Antiochian church I attend.